Author Topic: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.  (Read 29832 times)

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2011, 01:33:37 PM »
Lost me in the dust here, guys. Perhaps I should read the link, eh? Not a conservative, not nothing anymore, a sentiment which I call political gnosticism. Never mind. Who is Sol? Which amp are we talking here. As for tubes, the 300B doesn't interest me at all. I like EL-84 and once, sadly, KT-88s.

So my bloody C/J amp is covering up pimples, eh? What sort of preamp would reveal them? Well, fact is, th Rotel pre is fine, makes em both sound a bit hard. The C/J-Rotel combo has warmth and space and thrill from all them watts.

I can't think of an ss preamp I have preferred over any other. Kind of liked the little Audio Alchemy DLS. That has something about it, a certain up front clarity. Mostly of course I've used integrated amps. The tubed Anthem Integrated 1. Various NADs. My separates have been tubed, for the most part. Just in the last decade it's been experiments with hybrids (NO) and separates with tube pre to ss amp. Good. Been doing Beethoven all morning on the same old rig. Good. Will be better because -- da-da-da-DA! -- I, Brento, will it so!

Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2011, 01:36:38 PM »
Don't listen to Rich about tubes being all smeary and lacking resolution....  this is the guy that willing sat in front of Usher Be-20s powered by Spectron amps at elevated volume levels for extended periods of time and seemed to like it :) hehehehehe  Steve H and I actually had to leave the house and stand out in the driveway to get away from that :) hehehe

Not all C/J is created equal.... and not all of it is overly warm....  I've heard some of it with NOS tubes that was almost forward and lean sounding....  that's the perk of having tube pieces... you can make it sound dramatically different just by swapping a tube without having to buy new gear or DIY a cap/opamp/output transistor change.....

I don't really have anything to add to the conversation.. just wanted to bust Rich's chops :) and point out that audiophile terms are completely in the ear of the beholder.... bright to me is smooth and relaxed to someone else.....things that drive me bonkers and make me grind my teeth don't even phase Rich and things that irritate him, I'm not all that upset about....  You're on the right track to try something out in your system...  just don't avoid something because of something on the internet unless there is an overwhelming consistent opinion of it one way or the other (and be a bit cautious of that as well as I've heard stuff that people rave about and thought their ears were broken)....  everything's a compromise....  just try to find something that is the compromises you want to make....
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

Offline tmazz

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2011, 01:44:15 PM »

Moscode is to Vincent what gourmet food is before and after digestion.


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I was just about to reply to an earlier post in this thread to say that although they are both hybrid designs, the Moscodes and the Vincents don't orbit the same sun. But I think Rich hit the nail right on the head.

BTW, the Moscode I was referring to was the original Moscode 600, not the current production models fro George Kaye, which I understand are even better sounding that the NYAL versions. (and of course more expensive)
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2011, 01:54:25 PM »
I dunno Rich.  Conservatism and audio journalism are not mutually exclusive.

http://csis.org/expert/anthony-h-cordesman

That's cool! I didn't know that. But he likes Bryston so only half points. There are conservatives hiding all through the entertainment biz.

I am on the fence now about tubes. I listen to a beautiful sounding SS amp designed by Sol Samet almost all the time, and I feel no desire to run the tubes. But I'm hoping I can enjoy them more with the new speakers. If the SS still sounds better, or one of his latest versions I'll sell them and be done with power tubes for a while. Sol's amp sound better than 300B tubes? Heresy! depends if you want cool ice grapefruit juice on a hot day, or Colombian coffee with bailey's amaretto and kahlua beside the fire. Depends whether it's Anita O'Day Quartet or Beethoven symphony. That's why I have both. Snappers can do both well, but I sold mine for want of quality tubes. I may just buy another pair.

The better amp designs get the closer the SS and tubes models start to sound. While this may sound crazy at fist glance consider this - There is only one "right" sound of an amplifier (the mythical strait wire with gain.) Any difference we hear are due to a departure in some way from perfect reproduction of the input signal (i.e. distortion.) Well the better the amp designs get on both sides of the fence, the less distortion they produce and the closer they will end up sounding to one another.

So to me when somebody says that a top shelf SS amps sounds just like a top shelf tube amp it doesn't sound like heresy to me, it sounds more like a logical conclusion. (are we actually there yet, not really, but we do get closer and closer as the years go on.)
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2011, 02:35:14 PM »
Hi Shane!!  I kiss you with my busted chops!   I can't remember who brought that Spectron over to my house?  It didn't hurt my ears like you guys, and it made great bass and great strings. I loved the feeling of infinite power it had. So it would have worked if we put a 6SN7 tube preamp in front? hahah

Hey Tom, wasn't George Kaye the original moscode designer? For some reason I thought he was in on the beginning of it too.

I'm with you Tom about "one right sound," in theory. I've heard it a few times, from different mfgs, usually expensive, powerful, linear, SS amps. But I also own 300Bs and love them, so there is something to say for indulgence for the sake of pleasure. But in the long run, I think a neutral amp with enough power is ideal. Even my beloved Snappers were too exciting. I heard them at the show last week, the room was full of anticipation, like we were all waiting for Jimmy Hendrix to show up, I recognized the sound from the Snappers. I used to like that, but now I lean towards less drama. But they were simply awesome on string quartets where drama is everything.

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2011, 03:09:09 PM »
Hey, I'm a Buddhist. I can't POSSIBLY accept the notion of one right sound. We are in the realm of Relative Truth here. I figure distortion is distortion of SILENCE, if anything. In other words, music itself is a distortiopn. The reason we hear things, old Kant says, is because we have ears which perceive sound. This is not to say there IS not sound, but it is going through a whole lot of filters: first your ears, your hearing history, your social background, your education, your whole electro-chemical apparatus which is also conditioned by your food preferances, drug intake, where you work, who you screw, cat hairs, dog hairs, who's pissing you off today, etc. All relative and subject to causes and conditions. I don't know how anyone can believe in the "right sound". That is a metaphysical notion, almost religious, completely superstitious. We are all filters, all distortions of the signal. Enjoy it!

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2011, 03:28:17 PM »
Well, don't everybody shut up at once! Isn't someone going to give me a bad time?

Offline mfsoa

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2011, 03:51:06 PM »
My take on the "Right Sound" is that if you have IT, just the sound you've been dreaming of, finally at long last - It'll only be "right" for that one track or one CD if you are lucky.

The next thing you put on, you'll be wishing for a bit more air, a bit less midbass etc.

Not to say that gear can't do a great job, but with such variability in the source material we can only hope for "pretty darn good" on most stuff, with that apex coming on but a few select cuts. The definition of a bell curve, I guess.

Brento if you would consider a ClassD amp may I suggest one from my friend (note the disclaimer) Tommy of the Digital Amp Co. He sometimes has demos at great prices, and it's the best SS and the best ClassD I've heard for the $$. Some great reviews out there too.

IMO

-Mike

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2011, 04:10:48 PM »
Actually, I've been waiting for one of my DIY pals to finish wiring up his Hifimedly class D mono amps. They do 150 watts at 8 om. I was exploring Class D a few years ago with the PS Audio offering (120 was it?) but altough they had an amazing soundstage they were REALLY cold, really edgy, even with tubed preamps. I bought two of them for some reason, I guess hoping the first was a mistake, but they both sounded the same. I am eager to hear the newer Class D amps in my system and the Hifimedly will give me the chance. He'll part with these for $200 if I like them. That would settle the problem, actually. What does your friend have to offer?

Offline mfsoa

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2011, 04:53:20 PM »
I don't know what demo stuff he might have (probably not much)

But here's the website, thanks for asking:

http://www.digitalamp.com/


BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2011, 04:58:33 PM »
Yes, I've checked it out. Bit out of my leauge. Now we're talking 2 and 3K. Didn't see any demos.

I realize that while I've been on and off line here all day I've been listening to Gunther Wand's whole Beethoven cycle via iTunes lossless and enjoying myself enormously. Obviously I'm not really hurting here for quality sound, for all my Faustian restlessness.

Really appreciate all the feedback today. You're a granch bunch of chaps. Let's keep talking. Surely there must be a solution to all this, even if only for one perfect CD cut, perhaps a whole side of vinyl, the remains of a reel to reel tape, etc.

Thanks all,

Brento

Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2011, 06:36:11 PM »
I really like your idea that sound is distortion of silence, and that we are all distortions of the signal. Creationism from the musicians' perspective, and the string theorist!!   :thumb:

Offline tmazz

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2011, 08:32:17 PM »
Hey, I'm a Buddhist. I can't POSSIBLY accept the notion of one right sound. We are in the realm of Relative Truth here. I figure distortion is distortion of SILENCE, if anything. In other words, music itself is a distortiopn. The reason we hear things, old Kant says, is because we have ears which perceive sound. This is not to say there IS not sound, but it is going through a whole lot of filters: first your ears, your hearing history, your social background, your education, your whole electro-chemical apparatus which is also conditioned by your food preferances, drug intake, where you work, who you screw, cat hairs, dog hairs, who's pissing you off today, etc. All relative and subject to causes and conditions. I don't know how anyone can believe in the "right sound". That is a metaphysical notion, almost religious, completely superstitious. We are all filters, all distortions of the signal. Enjoy it!

Wow, that is a turn off the main Nervosa highway onto a side road.  8)

I can't disagree with anything you say, but this is nowhere near the lines that I was thinking along.  I was talking about the "sound" of the amplifier, meaning the sonic signature that the amp imposed on the signal presented to it by the ways in which it distorts that signal in addition to simply amplifying it. You were referring to the "right sound" in terms of how we as human beings experience the music. I found you comments to be a very interesting take on our hobby. While I was trying to convey a thought about the physical changes made by an inanimate object on the music signal, you took the same words and turned it into a comment about the way that we as human beings are affected on an intellectual and emotion level by the signals (music) being processed by the same amp.

This is one of the things that I love about this place it is always presenting me with new ideas and new ways of thinking about and approaching this hobby.

Thanks Brent
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2011, 08:44:00 PM »

Hey Tom, wasn't George Kaye the original moscode designer? For some reason I thought he was in on the beginning of it too.


You are right Rich, George was Harvey Rosenberg's Chief Engineer during the New York Audio Labs days and as such was the principle designer of the amps in the original Moscode series.

I'm with you Tom about "one right sound," in theory.

And of course we must all remember that it is nothing more than a theory because absolutely everything distorts a signal flow in some way (no matter how small.) So in practicality every amp will distort the signal presented to it in some way, so they will all have their own unique "character".  However this does not change the fact that logically the smaller the distortions get  the closer the two amps will be to each other, no matter what technology they each use. That was the only point I was trying to make.

But as Brent so correctly pointed out the human interface and processing of the sound throws a whole slew of extra variables into the mix. 

Just when we thought we were starting to get this thing figured out.,,,,,,,  :roll:  :rofl:

Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2011, 07:13:31 AM »
Sorry to get weird. By the way, is that the same Rosenberg who called himself "Gizm", wrote for Postiive Feedback? If so, I rather share or shared his ideas (I think he died), especially when I got into tubes. I still have a print issue of PF in which he raves on in a long article which I quite frankly could not get through at the time and still keep meaning to get back to. But i have been of the subjectivist persuastion all along in this. I have of course heard that as you approach the pinacle of high end designs the difference between solid state and tubes begins to vanish. I don't have the money to explore this fully. Used to be you could go to show rooms and listen, een bring ths stuff home and try it out.

So, I do have financial limitations here, which is why I concentrate on synergy. You can get really fine sound without getting a second mortgage or knocking over banks by careful system matching. It took me years to get this through my head. You get all bedazzled by Stereophile reviews and start chasing after stuff that really won't sound good with what you have. At first I paid no attention to the "Associated Equipment" sidebars; and only gave a cursory look at the music these writers were audtioning their review samples with. I figured if their doing Jimi Hendrix, well, Mahler should be fine! Or worse, Diana Krall (everybody's system demo fave, certainly heard more of her in showrooms -- before they all closed -- than anywhere else!), assuming the same equipment would be Beethoven friendly.

Initially (I wonder when that was!) I began this adventure trying to get a satisfying summer rig that I could listen to without bleeding ears. It was in the course of a heat wave that I arrived at the current C/J-Rotel-Vandersteen synergy. I was beginning to just leave it all be at that because neither the C/J nor the Rotel (for all its muscle) both run cool. Then, you know, guys come in here with their sensitive speakers and the all tube system starts to come alive in ways I hadn't known were possible and I begin to sit there sweating and suffering until I can't any more and must try to deny the evidence of my senses, also trying to remember that the summer synergy is not forever; I could get such speakers myself, use both ss and tube amps at will, etc., etc. It goes on and on. So I go off searching for another pair of speakers, either to replace the Vandersteens entirely or ... and so on. The race is not finished!

So then I get all Zen and figure ... Oh, never mind! No, just to squeeze the thought into Haiku length, if not form, start all over again with naive ears.