AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: sleepyguy24 on May 07, 2014, 08:48:01 PM
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Hey everyone.
I know Bill B has got the Harmonia 300B based Tube Buffer that really looks amazing. That got me curious about 300B stuff. I was just looking around and I stumbled upon the Bottlehead BeePre 300B preamp.
http://bottlehead.com/product/beepre-300b-preamplifier-kit/
(http://bottlehead.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/beequiet_step_att2.jpg)
It looks pretty cool but I'm just curious how do these 300B type preamps sound. I was wondering if anyone here has heard the BeePre or maybe other 300B type preamps. I'm new to tube stuff so a 300B preamp is foreign to me. I've only seen the 300B tube used in amps. How do the 300B based tube preamps sound?
For kicks I priced a Bottlehead BeePre and the cost to buy it and have the Bottlehead expert assemble and it came up to over $2k. No go for me anytime soon. I still owe SN money for his EEMM DAC.
Thanks in advance.
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If you get the chance to hear one, I highly recommend it. Then again, the sound may not be for you. If you love 300Bs, you'll love a 300B preamp. My prototype 300B buffer will never leave my system (when I get it back :?).
We (Purity) will have one maybe later this year but will not be inexpensive. I have had a prototype for a while but other products took priority.
The Bottlehead will be your most affordable option and from what I hear, its a nice preamp. The Ming-Da 300B pre also sounds really good but then you have to deal with quality issues and no US representation. I modified a few of these a couple years back but now nobody in the US represents them.
Regardless of what you may end up with down the road, keep in mind that your choice of 300B tubes will have a big influence on the sound.
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Hey everyone.
I know Bill B has got the Harmonia 300B based Tube Buffer that really looks amazing. That got me curious about 300B stuff. I was just looking around and I stumbled upon the Bottlehead BeePre 300B preamp.
http://bottlehead.com/product/beepre-300b-preamplifier-kit/
(http://bottlehead.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/beequiet_step_att2.jpg)
It looks pretty cool but I'm just curious how do these 300B type preamps sound. I was wondering if anyone here has heard the BeePre or maybe other 300B type preamps. I'm new to tube stuff so a 300B preamp is foreign to me. I've only seen the 300B tube used in amps. How do the 300B based tube preamps sound?
For kicks I priced a Bottlehead BeePre and the cost to buy it and have the Bottlehead expert assemble and it came up to over $2k. No go for me anytime soon. I still owe SN money for his EEMM DAC.
Thanks in advance.
I agree with Bill. If you like the sound of a 300b, you might like it. However, if your tastes are for total accuracy in to out representation, it will not be.
Cheers.
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I think DHT is to die for :thumb:
no 6dj8 tube will ever approach what a DHT can do, just supremely musical when done right.
It has little to with circuit either, like a 4 cylinder racing an 8 cylinder.
IS DHT accurate? probably not, will they make you happy? Absolutely
Bravo for Bottlehead pushing the envelope!
Accuracy is a word, goosebumps are what matter, emotion matters, we are deciphering music not digital code
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I for one really find the 300B used as a "signal tube" to be very enjoyable. Dont think of a 300B preamp in the same terms as a 300B amp matched with ineffecient speakers. Dynamic control is not an issue as the tube is not driving a loudspeaker.
We have both a 300B buffer as well as a hybrid Class D amp with a 300B as the input stage. We loved the idea of using the 300B as an output stage for most any source component. Ever hear a CD player or DAC with a 300B output? How about the outputs from a Direct TV cable box. We considered releasing the 300B preamp but decided to release the more unique products first as nobody has ever done either of these before and there are a couple 300B pres on the market already.
After playing around with various products using the 300B in applications other than a power tube, I can only recommend you try to audition one of the 300B preamps. From what I have seen, the Bottlehead seems to be the safest bet and most affordable way of doing this. If you are looking for an organic, full bodied presentation, you may never look back.
Hopefully someone here will get a chance to hear the Bottlehead and report back.
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Just couple it with Jupiter copper caps and all will be well! :thumb:
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Thanks everyone for their input. If a Bottlehead BeePre appears on the used market and I have the money for it I'll let you know my thoughts on it. I do like accuracy and detail when it comes to music.
Stupid question. DHT means Dual Heated Triode?
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Direct Heated Triode
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Direct Heated Triode
Good to know. Thanks for the prompt reply.
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I think DHT is to die for :thumb:
no 6dj8 tube will ever approach what a DHT can do, just supremely musical when done right.
It has little to with circuit either, like a 4 cylinder racing an 8 cylinder.
IS DHT accurate? probably not, will they make you happy? Absolutely
Bravo for Bottlehead pushing the envelope!
Accuracy is a word, goosebumps are what matter, emotion matters, we are deciphering music not digital code
First, I am not manufacturing anymore. And accuracy creates goose bumps because I like listening to live instruments, but as they say, to each his own.
I have heard both types many many times, as I have been designing for 45-50 years. Believe me, a 300b or 45 is no match for a properly designed E88cc/6dj8, for instance, as I have designed.
Customers have already compared my 11A line preamp to 45 and 300b preamps, and including Shindo's and my 11A was chosen every time. Obviously your reference is not the same as mine, which is not your fault because 99 plus % of designers produce inferior quality, thin sounding components.
Unfortunately virtually no one understands how to design, instead simply copying crappy older designs and not understanding the limitations of those designs.
What makes the 300b sound better in those poorer, thin sounding designs (with small coupling caps) is the high amounts of low order distortion products which gives the impression of harmonically rich. Unfortunately, the dht tube's harmonics do not change with different instruments, so an in-accurate tonality for each instrument is created. It creates an artificial coloration.
Then when one chooses a speaker or source, their designs needs to be compromised in an attempt to compensate for the dht.
Best, natural synergy is created when there are a minimum of sonic distractions produced from each component.
Another problem with dhts (including SETs) is the Mu, or gain, and so the number of stages, chokes, and possibly multiple transformers used. Everything, including additional stages influences and degrades the sound if not designed correctly.
Another, the power supplies are very poorly designed.
Another, the soundstage is almost always limited.
There are more problems, but the 4 cyclinder engine is definitely the dht, while the 8 cyclinder is the E88cc/6dj8.
I don't touch any dhts, I am way beyond them. It is too bad we do not have real designers/engineers anymore who understand the designs and wish to improve audio. Instead we get copycats pushing the same old designs with different cosmetics and expensive tubes.
But as I mentioned earlier, to each his own, especially among the poor designs. Some like colorations and not the real natural thing. Bottlehead is good for those who wish to perform personal experiments.
Last thing is that when a system is approaching super good, one must go vertical. By that I mean one must actually design/build and match the pre, amp, and speaker. That is when the sound really becomes natural and wonderful. Otherwise one is simply doing patch work with different brands.
Cheers
Steve
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I think DHT is to die for :thumb:
no 6dj8 tube will ever approach what a DHT can do, just supremely musical when done right.
It has little to with circuit either, like a 4 cylinder racing an 8 cylinder.
IS DHT accurate? probably not, will they make you happy? Absolutely
Bravo for Bottlehead pushing the envelope!
Accuracy is a word, goosebumps are what matter, emotion matters, we are deciphering music not digital code
First, I am not manufacturing anymore. And accuracy creates goose bumps because I like listening to live instruments, but as they say, to each his own.
I have heard both types many many times, as I have been designing for 45-50 years. Believe me, a 300b or 45 is no match for a properly designed E88cc/6dj8, for instance, as I have designed.
Customers have already compared my 11A line preamp to 45 and 300b preamps, and including Shindo's and my 11A was chosen every time. Obviously your reference is not the same as mine, which is not your fault because 99 plus % of designers produce inferior quality, thin sounding components.
Unfortunately virtually no one understands how to design, instead simply copying crappy older designs and not understanding the limitations of those designs.
What makes the 300b sound better in those poorer, thin sounding designs (with small coupling caps) is the high amounts of low order distortion products which gives the impression of harmonically rich. Unfortunately, the dht tube's harmonics do not change with different instruments, so an in-accurate tonality for each instrument is created. It creates an artificial coloration.
Then when one chooses a speaker or source, their designs needs to be compromised in an attempt to compensate for the dht.
Best, natural synergy is created when there are a minimum of sonic distractions produced from each component.
Another problem with dhts (including SETs) is the Mu, or gain, and so the number of stages, chokes, and possibly multiple transformers used. Everything, including additional stages influences and degrades the sound if not designed correctly.
Another, the power supplies are very poorly designed.
Another, the soundstage is almost always limited.
There are more problems, but the 4 cyclinder engine is definitely the dht, while the 8 cyclinder is the E88cc/6dj8.
I don't touch any dhts, I am way beyond them. It is too bad we do not have real designers/engineers anymore who understand the designs and wish to improve audio. Instead we get copycats pushing the same old designs with different cosmetics and expensive tubes.
But as I mentioned earlier, to each his own, especially among the poor designs. Some like colorations and not the real natural thing. Bottlehead is good for those who wish to perform personal experiments.
Last thing is that when a system is approaching super good, one must go vertical. By that I mean one must actually design/build and match the pre, amp, and speaker. That is when the sound really becomes natural and wonderful. Otherwise one is simply doing patch work with different brands.
Cheers
Steve
Steve,
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the "Design" aspect of your post!
Yes, power supplies are critical. I think it is the one of the most critical parts of the design (if not the most important) for both preamplifiers & especially amplifiers!
However, DHT's are where it's at for sonic purity. Perhaps you never heard a well designed SET or listened to one with mismatched (un-synergistic) components & inefficient speakers that gives you that impression...
My $0.02,
Pete
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Great post Steve. I am sad to hear that you are not manufacturing anymore. But I hope that leaves you more time to enjoy the hobby.
Manley makes a 300B preamp. It is fun to listen to, and designed by a good engineer, Mitch Margolis. But I would still prefer 6922 for preamp. In the early stages of the signal chain you need low distortion, high current actives.
There are some 300B power amps that are well engineered, but 300B can only do so much. You have to accommodate its limitations then you can benefit from its strengths.
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Interesting thread this is turning into. I think all opinions are valid. Regarding DHTs, I agree with Steve that these are not the first choice when pure accuracy is what we want. On the other hand, I absolutely love the presentation when 300Bs are in the mix. All my personal listening is now done with a 300B buffer in system.
I am also a big fan of SET amplification. I know it's not for everybody but it's what I like. I'm not saying I don't like other topologies and in fact have my own hybrid amplifiers but one thing is for sure....... nobody in this hobby of ours will ever agree on just one. That's why it's a hobby. Just like designers all have their own preferences. As a designer, I can appreciate all types out there but have my own ideas when it comes to my products.
I also agree that the 6922 family IS a great choice which is why I have have gone with this family of tubes in my preamps. My preferences for linestage circuits are the 12AU7 or 6922 tube types but also like what I hear from a well thought out and implemented DHT linestage design.
Power supplies? Extremely important but no more or less important than the rest of the circuit. It's the design as a whole that matters. You can't have one without the other. An excellent power supply does nothing for an inferior circuit design and vise versa. I hate seeing people debate over which part of a design is more important. Doesn't make sense to me.
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However, DHT's are where it's at for sonic purity. Perhaps you never heard a well designed SET or listened to one with mismatched (un-synergistic) components & inefficient speakers that gives you that impression...
Your comment does not apply as I have heard the best names, including Shindo, and other brands many times all with proper sources, speakers etc. In fact I have the advantage of hearing many many, while you have not had the advantage of hearing mine or others. That does give me an "unfair" advantage. And forget diyers.
It is apparent, not your fault, that your paradyme is not what it should be due to the poor designs of nearly all analog components, both dhts and idhts. Very very few are very accurate and natural.
One important point. Please do not claim that others, especially myself, cannot improve designs and overall systems. That is a very poor assumption.
There are a few points that need addressing.
1) Since your paradyme is so negatively influenced by so many poor designs, you cannot make a descent comparison, especially to mine. The best systems are going to be vertical, which few do, by the way.
2) Even the best dht/idht SET designs have inherent flaws, and with dhts/300bs additional inherent physical design problems exist.
3) Even if one could design a near perfect SET, one still has the problem of the DHT/IDHT HD/IMD distortions
messing up the sound. For instance, for 8 watts out from 300b, HD at 15%, the IMD is an astounding 48%. At 5% HD, IMD is around 16%.
So one must run well below max power, low spl of the amp to keep these two types of distortion low. And the IMD makes it much tougher to play complex music without degradation.
Also only at much below max power out/low levels is the damping factor relatively constant.
Of course, preamps have no such problems unless an output transformer is used, with possible ringing problems. Then one needs or has a friend with a scope.
4) Because of the nature of SETs, the damping factor varies, and is related to output power/signal level but only over 1/2 cycle, 1/2 movement of the cone. Damping varies from calculated number around idle current to zero at the tube's cutoff. Not only woofer, but also mid/tweeter controls are affected.
We have not even begun to discuss the accurate/natural parts crisis, the good parts are becoming extinct due to improper testing methods and results propagated as fact on various forums. I cannot even special order some parts anymore.
The question that is really pertinent, besides correcting design flaws, is how are components suppose to improve when one cannot obtain the best "sounding" parts?
I realize there is a lot of hype out there, but it is because of such poor designs using all types of tubes. The truly transparent, accurate, natural comes from the lowest distortion, all types of distortions, designs.
As Bill mentions, the entire design is important. However, the power supply always seems to be lacking in proper design.
Thanks Rich. If I posted all the limitations of an entire design, well.....
Cheers
Steve
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However, DHT's are where it's at for sonic purity. Perhaps you never heard a well designed SET or listened to one with mismatched (un-synergistic) components & inefficient speakers that gives you that impression...
Your comment does not apply as I have heard the best names, including Shindo, and other brands many times all with proper sources, speakers etc. In fact I have the advantage of hearing many many, while you have not had the advantage of hearing mine or others. That does give me an "unfair" advantage. And forget diyers.
It is apparent, not your fault, that your paradyme is not what it should be due to the poor designs of nearly all analog components, both dhts and idhts. Very very few are very accurate and natural.
One important point. Please do not claim that others, especially myself, cannot improve designs and overall systems. That is a very poor assumption.
There are a few points that need addressing.
1) Since your paradyme is so negatively influenced by so many poor designs, you cannot make a descent comparison, especially to mine. The best systems are going to be vertical, which few do, by the way.
2) Even the best dht/idht SET designs have inherent flaws, and with dhts/300bs additional inherent physical design problems exist.
3) Even if one could design a near perfect SET, one still has the problem of the DHT/IDHT HD/IMD distortions
messing up the sound. So one must run well below max power, spl low of the amp. It is much tougher to play complex music without degradation.
Also only at much below max power out/low levels is the damping factor relatively constant.
Of course, preamps have no such problems unless an output transformer is used, with possible ringing problems. Then one needs or has a friend with a scope.
4) Because of the nature of SETs, the damping factor varies, and is related to output power/signal level but only over 1/2 cycle, 1/2 movement of the cone. Damping varies from calculated number around idle current to zero at the tube's cutoff. Not only woofer, but also mid/tweeter controls are affected.
We have not even begun to discuss the accurate/natural parts crisis, the good parts are becoming extinct due to improper testing methods and results propagated as fact on various forums. I cannot even special order some parts anymore.
The question that is really pertinent, besides correcting design flaws, is how are components suppose to improve when one cannot obtain the best "sounding" parts?
Cheers
Steve
Geez, Steve, a bit opinionated, eh? How do you know what I've heard & not heard??? How do you know??? I have heard your gear before...
I believe my current SET amp has broken every PARADIGM associated with SET amps... except musicality!
Too bad you're not making "state of the art" gear any more...
Cheers,
Pete
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Geez, Steve, a bit opinionated, eh? How do you know what I've heard & not heard??? How do you know??? I have heard your gear before...
I believe my current SET amp has broken every PARADIGM associated with SET amps... except musicality!
Too bad you're not making "state of the art" gear any more...
Cheers,
Pete
I am just responding to your initial and later very opinionated and strong claims.
no 6dj8 tube will ever approach what a DHT can do, just supremely musical when done right.
I have answered your first part at least twice, I have heard dozens if not hundreds of SET dht brands, and have decades of listening experience as well as education and design work.
How many times and what system(s) did you hear my preamplifier? Was it at Bobs? If so, that was with his equipment so I cannot vouch as it has been a long time.
I have gone vertical over the last two years which also makes a difference since I could not find a speaker (up to 29 grand) that would work properly with both my 11A and 50 watt amp tested for accuracy/naturalness in absolute terms.
Remember that speakers are designed for the system/amp used by the designer. And I do not know of a single amp designer who tests his amps for accuracy in absolute terms, let alone preamplifier. That is one reason why speakers and systems that sound all over the place. Of course there are other considerations.
We are not seeing many vertical systems, but that is the next step to improving systems.
Take care.
Cheers
Steve
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Pete,
You have to understand Steve believes low distortion numbers and accuracy are the measurement for great gear.
For many engineers it is a numbers game.
But we know that this hobby is a lot more than numbers, and the measurements used to design gear while neccessary does not always dictate great results. There is a little Black art involved as well.
People who use DHT tubes understand the pros and cons to using the tube, and yet still choose those tubes again and again...why?...because they are crazy? Nah
At some point in the hobby you reach a point where you realize that the only person you are trying to impress is yourself.
At that point all the audiophile crap goes by the wayside, and you have one critic...yourself. When you are the only critic the only thing that matters is what makes you happy....for many people, and I mean many, it is DHT tubes, even with all their crappy numbers!
Go figure
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Hey gang,
Please don't edit your posts drastically hours after your original submission. It messes up the conversation if subsequent responses lose their context.
Please edit thoroughly before posting.
If you want to make a change, or elaborate, or retract, just quote your original post and add the correction in a new post, that is good forum etiquette. Then we can all see your train of thought and follow along. And our own responses to yours will not lose their context.
Thank you!
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Pete,
You have to understand Steve believes low distortion numbers and accuracy are the measurement for great gear.
For many engineers it is a numbers game.
But we know that this hobby is a lot more than numbers, and the measurements used to design gear while neccessary does not always dictate great results. There is a little Black art involved as well.
People who use DHT tubes understand the pros and cons to using the tube, and yet still choose those tubes again and again...why?...because they are crazy? Nah
At some point in the hobby you reach a point where you realize that the only person you are trying to impress is yourself.
At that point all the audiophile crap goes by the wayside, and you have one critic...yourself. When you are the only critic the only thing that matters is what makes you happy....for many people, and I mean many, it is DHT tubes, even with all their crappy numbers!
Go figure
And conversely, there are those who like their reproduced music to sound as natural, palpable, tingling, and accurate as possible. That means not staying stagnate.
Your comment about me is 100% blatantly false. For nearly two decades, since I "joined" the internet, I have consistently, over and over posted I use listening tests as the final criteria. I have gone against other engineers, such as JJ, Ken Kantor, and others on Audio Asylum (where I received as many as 36 email virus attacks in one day after each time I posted), Audio Circle, AudioKarma, Stereophile forums etc.
However, even with a perfect design, high HD and IMD specs do matter because they are perceived when performing listening tests. One can perceive to -90 to -100db down.
By the way, I do not need high HD and IMD in order to artificially fill out, make palpable the instruments/voices. My designs naturally fill out the music so the instruments sound more natural, the soundstage more accurate, the dynamics correct.
Of course, if one designs the most natural, palpable, perfectly transparent, perfect soundstage, dynamics, honest in every way, some one(s) is going to feel stepped on. By the way, the parts used would also be the most natural and accurate.
That requires me to perform extensive, accurate listening tests on each part used in my components, to make sure each part is totally transparent, does not add or subtract from the music.
In fact, I have probably performed more testing on parts and components than anyone else on the planet. I found what I needed and use the parts.
However, because of horrible testing procedures on electronic parts on other forums, the good ones are sent into extinction while the poorer parts are glorified and mated with high HD and IMD devices.
I believe everyone realizes that there is big profits involved selling certain tubes, as well as sales in general. Anyone can copy a design and sell product.
Most of the guys designing different amps/preamps have little understanding of what they are doing. That includes engineers and amateurs such as diy forums etc. So how can they improve what they do not understand.
If they wish to stagnate, and do not wish to improve audio, that is up to them. But please do not attempt to limit me and others who wish to improve the experience.
Cheers
Steve
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$6 LM4562 + 2 9V batteries = lower distortion than any other amplifier in the world. So?
People like distortion. People like a lot of things that are bad. That's why we have church.
As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly OK for steve to NOT use DHT pre-amplifier. Does anyone disagree? Without objection....
Moving on.
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People like a lot of things that are bad. That's why we have church.
:rofl: :thumb:
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$6 LM4562 + 2 9V batteries = lower distortion than any other amplifier in the world. So?
People like distortion. People like a lot of things that are bad. That's why we have church.
As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly OK for steve to NOT use DHT pre-amplifier. Does anyone disagree? Without objection....
Moving on.
+2 !!!
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To add to that....
I beleive its okay for anybody to like what they like.
"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"
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To add to that....
I beleive its okay for anybody to like what they like.
"Build your system for yourself, not the critics"
AMEN to that!!!!!
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OK how about an Audio Note kit ?
charles
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Hey Steve you have mentioned "vertical' what do you mean ? I would love to hear one of your designs.
I agree that we are trying to achieve real sound. We can get proper tonality, harmonics and detail. What is the missing link IMO is the presence and gestate that real music in a real space sounds like. Granted the venue [ room ] can have an affect presenting such as bright, warm, etc. However the presence is MIA for the most part.
So lets just imagine a DHT is say room coloration compared to another design coloration.
The same group playing at the Bluenote will sound different than Dizzys in NY.
Again the same natural character remains at both venues. Again presence.
Steve for me personally I love a manf. who designs like you. Testing and listening to such is key for me. What i disrespect is when a manf. puts down other designs or says that caps, cables, etc. all sound the same. AVA anybody. No IEC connector until forced by his customers.
If you ever would like to demo your wares for our audio club we would welcome the opportunity to do so.
charles
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$6 LM4562 + 2 9V batteries = lower distortion than any other amplifier in the world. So?
People like distortion. People like a lot of things that are bad. That's why we have church.
Whoa nasty! But i like it :thumb:
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Hey Steve you have mentioned "vertical' what do you mean ? I would love to hear one of your designs.
I agree that we are trying to achieve real sound. We can get proper tonality, harmonics and detail. What is the missing link IMO is the presence and gestate that real music in a real space sounds like. Granted the venue [ room ] can have an affect presenting such as bright, warm, etc. However the presence is MIA for the most part.
So lets just imagine a DHT is say room coloration compared to another design coloration.
The same group playing at the Bluenote will sound different than Dizzys in NY.
Again the same natural character remains at both venues. Again presence.
Steve for me personally I love a manf. who designs like you. Testing and listening to such is key for me. What i disrespect is when a manf. puts down other designs or says that caps, cables, etc. all sound the same. AVA anybody. No IEC connector until forced by his customers.
If you ever would like to demo your wares for our audio club we would welcome the opportunity to do so.
charles
I think the term vertical design refers to a manufacturer that designs an end to end system (or at least major chunks of it like the preamp, the power amp and the speakers) thereby insuring that synergy is built in right from the start.
(Steve, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
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This is how my personal system was built. I designed and built the preamp, amp, speakers and all cabling except for a few power cords.
I think the term vertical design refers to a manufacturer that designs an end to end system (or at least major chunks of it like the preamp, the power amp and the speakers) thereby insuring that synergy is built in right from the start.
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Hey Steve you have mentioned "vertical' what do you mean ? I would love to hear one of your designs.
I agree that we are trying to achieve real sound. We can get proper tonality, harmonics and detail. What is the missing link IMO is the presence and gestate that real music in a real space sounds like. Granted the venue [ room ] can have an affect presenting such as bright, warm, etc. However the presence is MIA for the most part.
So lets just imagine a DHT is say room coloration compared to another design coloration.
The same group playing at the Bluenote will sound different than Dizzys in NY.
Again the same natural character remains at both venues. Again presence.
Steve for me personally I love a manf. who designs like you. Testing and listening to such is key for me. What i disrespect is when a manf. puts down other designs or says that caps, cables, etc. all sound the same. AVA anybody. No IEC connector until forced by his customers.
If you ever would like to demo your wares for our audio club we would welcome the opportunity to do so.
charles
I think the term vertical design refers to a manufacturer that designs an end to end system (or at least major chunks of it like the preamp, the power amp and the speakers) thereby insuring that synergy is built in right from the start.
(Steve, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Yes, as I see and define it Tmazz and response audio. Rollo, yes, design as much as possible, preamplifier, amplifier, speakers, even build ICs, speaker wires, modifying the source if need be. I modified my CD player by bypassing the analog stage. This lowered the gain by 6db, but still had 1 vp-p.
One thing my friends say is that I never stop tweeking. I love working with audio designs. But I am slowing down and taking care of Mom as well, at least to some extent.
Yes, Rollo, presence is a major concern. So many things affect presence, which I also call live sounding. That is my trademark, "Where Music Comes Alive".
I believe all forms of distortion need to be minimized, even HD and IMD. One problem I have had is how to quantify live vs excellent in %. I suspect some view the difference as large and others small. To me there is that defining moment when all is right, and then another song is just off a little. Of course some recordings are way off. But I cannot put a % on the differences.
How to adjust one's stereo. Good question. I guess either one of two different ways, average out for most songs to sound good, go for the best on a few selections?
I wish I could visit, but I cannot even get my speakers down the stairs, let alone fit in a car, and they have no variable adjustments as of yet. I am still tweeking my xovers by changing resistances .01 ohm at a time. It would be better to come by and listen at this end. The speakers are not covered either as of yet. Once I finally install cloth over them, I will need to tweek again. Where are you located Charles? I am near Peoria, Illinois, actually Morton, Illinois, off of I-74, just east of Peoria.
Cheers
Steve
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We are in NY Steve. Do not get to the Windy City often. When I do its a date.
charles
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One problem I have had is how to quantify live vs excellent in %
I don't think this is possible. We are at the mercy of the recording and recording engineers. The best we can hope or strive for is how true to the recording we can get.
There are very few, if any, recordings that are true to the live event.
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We are in NY Steve. Do not get to the Windy City often. When I do its a date.
charles
I understand completely Charles. The last time I made it to NY was in 1964-5(?) as part of the Lincoln high school band playing at the Worlds Fair. We then traveled to Washington DC and played on the capital steps. NY city is very cool place to visit.
Cheers
Steve
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One problem I have had is how to quantify live vs excellent in %
I don't think this is possible. We are at the mercy of the recording and recording engineers. The best we can hope or strive for is how true to the recording we can get.
There are very few, if any, recordings that are true to the live event.
I understand where you are coming from Bill. Here is a link I think you might like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Pr_iCTeiM
Cheers
Steve