AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Digital Audio Devices => Topic started by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 10:09:37 AM

Title: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 10:09:37 AM
Vinyl is so easy take it out plop it on the platter, a quick sweep of a carbon static brush and were off!
Digital, not so much. I spend countless hours jacking around with it because of incompatibility issues, wrong formats, firewall issues, synch issues. Yesterday I spent 2 hours before I threw in the towel and listened to vinyl. Shame because a good digital setup can sound very good but the juice ain't worth the squeeze. Does anyone here have a reliable computer audio set up?(not talking about Tidal streaming I have that covered)
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 11:47:55 AM
What is your setup that you constantly have to muck around with it?  I have not touched my setup in couple of years other than making sure that I keep up with the security patches and player update.  I would say enjoy which ever format works for you  :thumb:.

If you post what your setup is and what your issues are we might be able to help you stabilize the setup.

Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: richidoo on September 16, 2018, 12:06:30 PM
What's your digital system consist of Jim? I finally got sick of digital audio messing up so I upgraded to more reliable gear and have been happier.

I use Roon with SOtM SMS-200 endpoint to convert ethernet to USB to feed my DAC, and I'm mostly satisfied with the reliability and SQ. SMS200 is only $500. It needs a reboot about every other month. I'm upgrading my USB cable and hope that will bring it close to the DirectStream SQ. I have a Auralic Vega DAC that sells used for about $1500. It is mostly reliable, occasionally slightly quirky. Pretty hard to beat the value.

My biggest reliability issue atm is stopping the crashed Roon Core app about 2x/month when it uses up the 8GB RAM and crashes itself. No reboot, just restart Roon again. It's annoying but it's within my tolerance. My friends running Roon don't have that problem. I run it on a 5yo Dell i3.

The most reliable and best sounding digital audio I've heard is PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge2 fed by Roon. Control it with a tablet or laptop running Roon as client. It's about $4.5k from a heavily discounting dealer. Rock solid reliability and among the best digital SQ available, imo.

I wish Roon could pass through more digital music services. I keep my trusty, ever reliable Sonos player in the system to play all my compressed streams. But the Sonos SQ is not audiophile even with a good (60pS) jitter fixer after it.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 12:52:08 PM
Ok so set up is: Windows laptop with JRiver and JPLay. HDD connected via USB3. The USB dac output into my Burson DAC.

I also have a reliable streaming set up which I wont go into it now because it is reliable.
Thanks, Jim

Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 01:40:57 PM
Ok so set up is: Windows laptop with JRiver and JPLay. HDD connected via USB3. The USB dac output into my Burson DAC.

I also have a reliable streaming set up which I wont go into it now because it is reliable.
Thanks, Jim

So what are the issue that you are having with the setup?  Was it the communication between JRiver/JPlay setup or JRiver and HDD? 

If I remember correctly JRiver removed the support for JPlay since they (JRiver) thought JPlay was basically leveraging JRiver was library management couple of years ago when JRiver version  was v18/19.  Also, what does your JRiver/JPlay setup allows you to do that you might miss if the set was simplified?

Isn't your streaming setup a Lumin?  If yes, I thought you have the ability to hook up the USB drive directly to Lumin and play your local files?
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 01:49:01 PM
Yes streaming is Lumin D1, and sounds good. But ultimately the hi res sounds a bit better. I am using JRiver 19. That was the last version that played nice with JPLay and the reason I will not upgrade. I get errors in JPlay saying it cant connect to the server and that the firewall may be blocking it. Then JRiver wont play selection becasue of the format. It also has issues with asio, wasapi, etc. One big shitfest. i am dumping the whole thing and getting a dedicated device. Just not sure which one. I guess I will be forced to get Roon.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 02:10:36 PM
Got it.  So it is basically the integration of JRiver and JPlay that is not working correctly.  I have JRiver but no JPlay so hopefully someone else on the forum has worked with that setup before who can provide guidance.  Have you tried just straight JRiver after uninstalling JPlay.  I am not even sure that is an option for you or not.  Did anyone on JPlay forum have any insight?

Why do you say you will be forced to get Roon?  Do you plan to integrate your local files with Tidal?  If not, wouldn't it be cheaper to just upgrade JRiver, if you are thinking about dumping the whole thing?  The other option is to wait for Qobuz to release their service in US and see if it meets your Hi-Res requirement and just use Lumin for everything.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 02:13:18 PM

My biggest reliability issue atm is stopping the crashed Roon Core app about 2x/month when it uses up the 8GB RAM and crashes itself. No reboot, just restart Roon again. It's annoying but it's within my tolerance. My friends running Roon don't have that problem. I run it on a 5yo Dell i3.


Rich, what is your OS for the Roon Core?  Getting ready to build a Roon system and trying to get an idea.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: rollo on September 16, 2018, 03:15:53 PM
  Get a good server and be done. Sit for the whole piece of music without interruption.   


charles

Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 05:22:21 PM
See response embedded


Got it.  So it is basically the integration of JRiver and JPlay that is not working correctly. << Well that is only ONE of the issues>>  I have JRiver but no JPlay so hopefully someone else on the forum has worked with that setup before who can provide guidance.  Have you tried just straight JRiver <<yes and it wont play certain formats. But it gets even crazier. I  can play a tune then go back 2 hrs later and "its not compatible" I have touched a Goddam thing!!>>  after uninstalling JPlay.  I am not even sure that is an option for you or not.  Did anyone on JPlay forum have any insight? <<I am a beaten man, I have endured this for the past 3-4 years I am moving on>>

Why do you say you will be forced to get Roon?  <<what free players can I use? can I use Lumin >> Do you plan to integrate your local files with Tidal?  If not, wouldn't it be cheaper to just upgrade JRiver, if you are thinking about dumping the whole thing?  The other option is to wait for Qobuz to release their service in US and see if it meets your Hi-Res requirement and just use Lumin for everything.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: richidoo on September 16, 2018, 05:27:23 PM
Rich, what is your OS for the Roon Core?  Getting ready to build a Roon system and trying to get an idea.

I just use the Windows 8 that came on it. 

Have you seen this? https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit
Might be worth a try if you building a new box before buying a Windows 10 license. I don't know anyone who has used it yet.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: richidoo on September 16, 2018, 05:37:39 PM
Jim, since you're using PC connected directly to DAC, why not just play directly from the streamer apps like Tidal or whatever you use? I like Tidal app better than Roon anyway. I think that's what Tmazz does? Then use foobar or JRiver for playing local files.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: TomS on September 16, 2018, 06:21:26 PM
I've used Roon on an iMac at first, then an Intel NUC with Windows 10 managed through TeamViewer from my Macs. Files are on a Synology DS1815+ NAS. Once I moved Roon to ROCK (Linux) on the NUC, I never have to touch it. It just works, no fuss.

I have the PS Audio DirectStream w/Bridge II Rich mentioned and it is a great setup. I do have Tidal only because it's CD quality, has most of the content I want (such as ECM), and integrates with Roon seamlessly. Once Qobuz is integrated I'll probably move there if the content is as good.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 16, 2018, 06:23:44 PM
See response embedded

Jim, since you're using PC connected directly to DAC, why not just play directly from the streamer apps like Tidal or whatever you use? << I do I use Tidal on my Lumin, good but not as good sonically as hi res local file>> I like Tidal app better than Roon anyway. I think that's what Tmazz does? Then use foobar or JRiver for playing local files. <<JRiver wont read all my files. depends on sampling rates, bit length etc.>>


I want to buy a dedicated computer and just play from my NAS or HDD.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 06:52:59 PM
Rich, what is your OS for the Roon Core?  Getting ready to build a Roon system and trying to get an idea.

I just use the Windows 8 that came on it. 

Have you seen this? https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit
Might be worth a try if you building a new box before buying a Windows 10 license. I don't know anyone who has used it yet.

ROCK or Optimized Debian is my number one choice but wanted to keep other OS options available.  I am not sure if ROCK will work with non-NUC system.  I will try it and if it does not work I will go down the Debian route, since I already have a working bare bone install steps which I used for HQPlayer Embedded.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 16, 2018, 07:00:25 PM
Jim, as Rich mentioned one of the better application out there is foobar, so you can try that on your existing laptop.  I still believe you should be able to leverage your Lumin streamer to play your local files.  Can you access you music on the WD NAS drive from the Lumin streamer?  If yes, copy a file that is on your local USB drive over to the NAS drive and see if you are able to play the song.  If yes, just copy everything over from the USB drive to you WD NAS and use Lumin to play it.

According to the Lumin Quickstart Guide  (http://www.luminmusic.com/support-quickstart.html) you should be able to do that.  The only sticking point would be if your WD NAS has UPnP server.  If you are coming over my place on Oct. 27th with Tom, bring your NAS, laptop, USB drive and Lumin over to my place and I will try to get it configured for you.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: richidoo on September 16, 2018, 09:18:00 PM
I do I use Tidal on my Lumin, good but not as good sonically as hi res local file

Agreed, it's mostly 44.1 and  hi res sounds better if it's real. Tidal does have a lot of genuine high resolution albums as Master series, but not always what you want to hear.

Quote
JRiver wont read all my files. depends on sampling rates, bit length etc.

You answered your own question: Dump JRiver.

Quote
I want to buy a dedicated computer and just play from my NAS or HDD.

I just read a little about your Lumin D1. Seems like that should do what you want. Is it not cuttin the mustard?
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 17, 2018, 05:12:05 AM
Shadow,

That opens up yet ANOTHER can of worms. I can and do access my NAS files from the Lumin. However the other day I was using the app on my iPAD and noticed all the cover art and metadata scrambled. (wrong art with wrong album, wrong artist etc) :shock: This is the first time this has happened. Have no clue why. I check my NAS it was fine but somehow when it shows up in the Lumin library its scrambled. (It is UPnP) I contacted Lumin they told me to install MiniminServer. Just to find out WD does not support 3rd party apps on its NAS lol. :roll: You cant make this stuff up. So now Lumin says I have to install MiniminServer on a computer that is on my network. Ok I can do that but can you see how many issues there are. I must have identified a dozen already lol! I just want a simple good sounding solution.  :duh

Jim, as Rich mentioned one of the better application out there is foobar, so you can try that on your existing laptop.  I still believe you should be able to leverage your Lumin streamer to play your local files.  Can you access you music on the WD NAS drive from the Lumin streamer?  If yes, copy a file that is on your local USB drive over to the NAS drive and see if you are able to play the song.  If yes, just copy everything over from the USB drive to you WD NAS and use Lumin to play it.

According to the Lumin Quickstart Guide  (http://www.luminmusic.com/support-quickstart.html) you should be able to do that.  The only sticking point would be if your WD NAS has UPnP server.  If you are coming over my place on Oct. 27th with Tom, bring your NAS, laptop, USB drive and Lumin over to my place and I will try to get it configured for you.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: tmazz on September 17, 2018, 07:22:35 AM
Jim, since you're using PC connected directly to DAC, why not just play directly from the streamer apps like Tidal or whatever you use? I like Tidal app better than Roon anyway. I think that's what Tmazz does? Then use foobar or JRiver for playing local files.

Rich I play Tidal a variety of ways depending on where I am using it. If I am working at my desk and just wand to stream music through the attached PC speakers I do use the Tidal PC app. If I am listing in the garage or the yard using by portable Bluetooth speaker I stream over my phone via the Tidal Andriod Up. However integration of streaming music into my main system is done with a Bluesound Node and in that case I use the Bluesound software which takes care of all of my online streaming needs plus can access files from my computer.It is somewhat clunky and probably not the best way to handle the computer based files, but I only have a handful of them so at this time it is not worth the time and effort it would take to research and install a better solution.However if in the future I will probably have to go down that road if I start getting heavier into file based music. But seeing as how quickly things change in the software world I don't think the issue is worth addressing until I need to and then look into what are the best options at that time.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 18, 2018, 05:28:20 AM
Good newws and bad news. I found out that I can connect my HDD directly to my Lumin. The downside is that I wont enjoy all the features and it will be slower according to Lumin. grrr lol
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 18, 2018, 06:06:05 AM
Until you make a decision on which direction you want to go.  Install Mininserver on your laptop and have it scan the USB drive and the cloud storage.  Use Lumin to stream all your music.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 18, 2018, 11:31:51 AM
Ok making progress. MinimServer is installed and now I have to make sure it can see the NAS. I have a feeling that once this is setup it should be better. Also I will look for a player like Foobar to go on my laptop
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 18, 2018, 07:39:31 PM
....and all this time I thought computers were supposed to make things like this easier.  :duh
I mean.... it's just a bunch of files that need accessed and executed, right?

The Squeezebox killed it for me. It's what caused me to dump my MASSIVE library and start streaming.
Yea, I've still got the HDD, but honestly, I've been beaten down. I now get that "needle in the arm" for my music from Pandora, Spotify, Youtube, and a few other smaller streaming sites. When the audiophile bug bites me, I'll fire up the HDD and use MediaMonkey to play the FLAC.

But honestly, we're a dying breed and there doesn't seem to be a reliable piece of hard/software to play music. Seems like such a simple task, ya know?
It's just playing music after all, but it seem technology hasn't caught up to such advanced computational complexities as playing music.
Over the years, I've lowered my standards in order to achieve what I need without hassle. The solution shouldn't require anything that requires a four figure solution. That's completely unacceptable. I mean... We're just decoding "ones and zeros" through a machine that's designed to decode ones and zeros. Right?
Why do we have to spend a bunch of money to decode that?
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: HAL on September 18, 2018, 07:56:47 PM
I have been using Foobar2000 on a low power fanless PC for years and have excellent digital playback from an USB external SSD.

You can stream from PC's as well. 

It does not have to be that hard.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Nick B on September 18, 2018, 07:59:37 PM
....and all this time I thought computers were supposed to make things like this easier.  :duh
I mean.... it's just a bunch of files that need accessed and executed, right?

The Squeezebox killed it for me. It's what caused me to dump my MASSIVE library and start streaming.
Yea, I've still got the HDD, but honestly, I've been beaten down. I now get that "needle in the arm" for my music from Pandora, Spotify, Youtube, and a few other smaller streaming sites. When the audiophile bug bites me, I'll fire up the HDD and use MediaMonkey to play the FLAC.

But honestly, we're a dying breed and there doesn't seem to be a reliable piece of hard/software to play music. Seems like such a simple task, ya know?
It's just playing music after all, but it seem technology hasn't caught up to such advanced computational complexities as playing music.
Over the years, I've lowered my standards in order to achieve what I need without hassle. The solution shouldn't require anything that requires a four figure solution. That's completely unacceptable. I mean... We're just decoding "ones and zeros" through a machine that's designed to decode ones and zeros. Right?
Why do we have to spend a bunch of money to decode that?

Bob,
I hated the Squeezebox and all it’s quirks and lack of stability. My Auralic is quirky too, but I only use Roon nowadays, so all is good. But Roon is only as good as my internet speed, which sometimes amazingly gets down to 1 or 2 mb. Maybe when Jim’s issue is positively resolved, you can post about yours. I can’t recall if you’ve posted on your situation before.
Nick
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 19, 2018, 04:58:07 AM
Each day I make a little bit of progress. MinimServer is up and "running" except I can't seem to find how to load my music files into it. I'll have to spend some time tonite looking at the settimg. But the good thing is i see MinimServer from my iPAD in Lumin so I am very close....
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 19, 2018, 07:53:15 AM
I guess I have been lucky with my setup but I also use a dedicated music only system and that might be the reason for the stability that I have gotten.  I have Logitech, MinimServer and JRiver running on the same system, which streams music to HQPlayer via either BubbleUPnP, mConnect or eos JRiver remote.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 19, 2018, 08:41:12 AM
Deepak, I believe a lot of my problems arise in my attempts to "optimize" a Windows based computer. For example trying to use Fidelizer or JPlay with JRiver. I find JRiver very buggy on its own. Then trow in JPLay. When JPlay is working it improves the sound immensely.  However the 2 do not play nice in the sand box. I have some ideas of maybe getting a Linux box and I wount have to use any optimizers.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 19, 2018, 09:23:21 AM
Yeah, JRiver is a royal pain to integrate with anything else.  Personally, I think you just need to potentially do a fresh install of windows on the laptop that you have, install Minimserver so it can act as UPnP Server and let Lumin be your player.  Doing that you clean up any lingering issues on the system and you do not have to purchase anything else and you are back enjoying the music.

If you want to optimize Windows the best place to start is server os or enterprise edition.  Both of them has a lot of crap either not installed or disabled out of the box and only requires minor tweaking.  If you want to go down the server route, you can get evaluation version of the software to see if it works for you.  If you have kids in college or high school have them check with the on campus computing department to see if you can purchase the licenses at steep discounted price.

The other option if you do not want to deal with maintaing/tweaking Windows and want to stay with Windows environment, reach out to Rich (HAL) for his MS-3 or better system and if you want to go down the Linux route I can help you with that.  Just let me know what your goals are with the Linux system and if you plan to run it headless (no monitor attached).
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: tmazz on September 19, 2018, 10:33:31 AM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:

Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 19, 2018, 10:34:30 AM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:
:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
The tables have turned.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: tmazz on September 19, 2018, 11:05:37 AM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:
:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
The tables have turned.

I don't know Bob, my table has never stopped turning.  8)
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 19, 2018, 11:08:41 AM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:

Your ritual is still painful and inconvenient. No thank you  :-P.

I do not have a ritual at all.  The only ritual that I have is power the DAC on (the amp and preamp stay on), grab the tablet/phone select music and hit play.  I have not mucked around with my setup for close to 18 months outside of making sure everything is patched both under Windows and Linux environment in automated fashion.  Patches get installed and system gets rebooted automatically every 6 weeks or so.

I am willing to give up bit of sound quality to keep my systems up and running in secure manner.  Even though they are dedicated for music only, god forbid I am not paying attention and use the system to browse  :duh
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: tmazz on September 19, 2018, 11:24:33 AM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:

Your ritual is still painful and inconvenient. No thank you  :-P.

I do not have a ritual at all.  The only ritual that I have is power the DAC on (the amp and preamp stay on), grab the tablet/phone select music and hit play.  I have not mucked around with my setup for close to 18 months outside of making sure everything is patched both under Windows and Linux environment in automated fashion.  Patches get installed and system gets rebooted automatically every 6 weeks or so.

I am willing to give up bit of sound quality to keep my systems up and running in secure manner.  Even though they are dedicated for music only, god forbid I am not paying attention and use the system to browse  :duh

To each his own.......
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 19, 2018, 12:17:43 PM

To each his own.......


Yep, the goal is to enjoy music.  Does not matter how you get there  :thumb:
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: S Clark on September 19, 2018, 12:39:46 PM
And all these years everybody has been breaking my chops about the rituals related to cleaning records being to inconvenient and time consuming????????   :roll:

Your ritual is still painful and inconvenient. No thank you  :-P.

I do not have a ritual at all.  The only ritual that I have is power the DAC on (the amp and preamp stay on), grab the tablet/phone select music and hit play.  I have not mucked around with my setup for close to 18 months outside of making sure everything is patched both under Windows and Linux environment in automated fashion.  Patches get installed and system gets rebooted automatically every 6 weeks or so.

I am willing to give up bit of sound quality to keep my systems up and running in secure manner.  Even though they are dedicated for music only, god forbid I am not paying attention and use the system to browse  :duh
I'm jealous.  I could never get my digital rig to be dependable.  And the less I played it, the less dependable it became.  If I were to try to play something on it right now, it would be at least 10 minutes of futzing before any sound came out.  I gave up and went back to vinyl a couple of years ago. 
Although I tend to let newly acquired vinyl pile up before breaking out ultrasonic, once clean it is sooooo easy to have things working and sounding good. 
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Bob in St. Louis on September 19, 2018, 01:05:54 PM

To each his own.......


Yep, the goal is to enjoy music.  Does not matter how you get there  :thumb:
When I made that realisation, my life became MUCH simpler.
Spent less money too.  :rofl:
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: tmazz on September 20, 2018, 12:20:05 PM

To each his own.......


Yep, the goal is to enjoy music.  Does not matter how you get there  :thumb:

Well put.  :clap:
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 21, 2018, 05:37:38 AM
Thanks to Shadowlight we were able to get the content directory set up. I was on the right track for setting it up but was actually providing too much information on the path.
We continue to have problems with JRiver/JPlay. I don't believe that will ever be resolved.  I can continue that as a hobby of its own on the side because the pressure is off, I now have music because the Shadow knows   :rofl:
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Nick B on September 21, 2018, 07:59:38 AM
Thanks to Shadowlight we were able to get the content directory set up. I was on the right track for setting it up but was actually providing too much information on the path.
We continue to have problems with JRiver/JPlay. I don't believe that will ever be resolved.  I can continue that as a hobby of its own on the side because the pressure is off, I now have music because the Shadow knows   :rofl:

He has helped me as well, which I appreciated very much 👍
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 21, 2018, 08:42:19 AM
Thanks to Shadowlight we were able to get the content directory set up. I was on the right track for setting it up but was actually providing too much information on the path.
We continue to have problems with JRiver/JPlay. I don't believe that will ever be resolved.  I can continue that as a hobby of its own on the side because the pressure is off, I now have music because the Shadow knows   :rofl:

Is the Minimserver to Lumin streaming on par with JRiver/JPlay setup in sound quality?
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 21, 2018, 09:24:49 AM
I didnt spend much more time on the JRiver-JPlay debacle. I can only take this computer stuff in small doses  :lol:
I will spend some time with it this weekend. I need to confirm that the JPlay is actually running WITH JRiver at the same time.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 21, 2018, 06:10:14 PM
OK so it appears that the 2 are playing nice nice in the sand box.....for now. I was able to do a couple of comparisons of streamed vs playing locally. I think the local is a little more lively and the streaming is a bit dull(er). very close, I will need to do more evaluation but hey, its working.... :thumb:
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 21, 2018, 07:24:23 PM
OK so it appears that the 2 are playing nice nice in the sand box.....for now. I was able to do a couple of comparisons of streamed vs playing locally. I think the local is a little more lively and the streaming is a bit dull(er). very close, I will need to do more evaluation but hey, its working.... :thumb:

Good to hear that everything is working again.  I guess something in JPlay setup was corrupted and reinstalling it fixed the issue.

Enjoy whichever one sounds the best.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: JBNY on September 26, 2018, 08:30:48 AM
Sorry to hear you are having problems. My digital has been rock solid playing pretty much any format for at least 5 years. Listening to peoples woes I think that people try and put together a system out of spare parts they have lying around and that is what ends up having problem.  If I would give you advice it would be this.
 

Playing around with jriver, foobar, media monkey, etc is fine when listening to music at you PC. but if you are trying to integrate digital streaming with your main rig it is much better to get dedicated solutions. Yes in the long run it is more money that just putting together a digital streaming solution from odds and ends you have lying around the house. But the dedicated gear makes things work so much smoother.

Jim, I have extended an invitation to come over and hear my system before. Sometime when you have time send me an email and come over, I can walk you through my whole setup.

Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 26, 2018, 08:41:14 AM
Sorry to hear you are having problems. My digital has been rock solid playing pretty much any format for at least 5 years. Listening to peoples woes I think that people try and put together a system out of spare parts they have lying around and that is what ends up having problem.  If I would give you advice it would be this.
 
  • Put all you music on a NAS, that is on 24/7.  <Yep, did that> Who care if it is uses 15 watts when it is idle, leaving it on all the time will elevate any issues with drives spiingin up ro down when you are tryting to listen to music.

    Put in a hardwired network, don't run it off of wi-fi.<Yep, thats the set up>

    Get a dedicated Streamer/Player/server, leave it on all the time too. The streamer should be able to connect to the NAS via the hardwired LAN. <Yes, that too>

    Plug the streamer into the DAC, enjoy digital music.

Playing around with jriver, foobar, media monkey, etc is fine when listening to music at you PC. but if you are trying to integrate digital streaming with your main rig it is much better to get dedicated solutions. Yes in the long run it is more money that just putting together a digital streaming solution from odds and ends you have lying around the house. But the dedicated gear makes things work so much smoother.<BTW I am trying to compare files stored locally on a HDD played by a PC into a DAC vs files stored on a NAS sent to a streamer to a DAC. I have suspicions that there may be significant difference, maybe not?>

Jim, I have extended an invitation to come over and hear my system before. Sometime when you have time send me an email and come over, I can walk you through my whole setup.
<Thank you I will>
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: JBNY on September 26, 2018, 09:54:51 AM
Great, reach out to me whenever you want.

I don't feel there are any differences between playing a file off the HDD on the NAS via the network or playing the file on the HDD local to the PC. They are the exact same file, if there are any differences there is a problem with the player. Of course if you want to run it one way or the other, whatever floats your boat.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 26, 2018, 12:31:59 PM
yea, just an experiment really. I was able to get it running recently but I did not do a serious compare. There was a noticeable difference though. I did see a youtube video of a guy doing an a/b compare of I2S vs USB and there was a big difference between the 2. I am always interested in eventually going in the direction of better sound if and when I can.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: JBNY on September 26, 2018, 01:00:25 PM
Aren't we all.

I am running i2s to my DAC, I do think it sounds a little better than USB, but the i2s interface it more prone to problems, interference, jitter etc. so it depends how it works in your set.  I can run DSD native over i2S, something I can not do with USB so that was the main reason I tried it.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 26, 2018, 06:28:26 PM
I can run DSD native over i2S, something I can not do with USB so that was the main reason I tried it.

Any background on why USB and native DSD did not work for you?
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: JBNY on September 29, 2018, 01:45:24 PM
I can run DSD native over i2S, something I can not do with USB so that was the main reason I tried it.

Any background on why USB and native DSD did not work for you?

Native DSD won't work over USB without a driver specific to the DAC, as the USB spec does not support native DSD only PCM. My DAC doesn't have any way to do native DSD over USB, so I had to use DoP DSD. switching to i2S let me go native DSD as well as up to DSD 256.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: shadowlight on September 29, 2018, 04:41:06 PM
Got it.
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: rollo on October 17, 2018, 11:39:34 AM
  PAINLESS AUDIO GET A SERVER INSTEAD.  :duh


charles
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Guy 13 on September 26, 2019, 05:31:20 AM
Hi all.
When some of you talk about computer audio (software - hardware)
to me it look like you are speaking Chinese.
Most of the words used mean nothing to me.
It's like I have to learn a new language.

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: HAL on September 26, 2019, 05:45:15 AM
Guy13,
It is just new terminology to describe computer audio operation.  It can be a bit confusing to start, but not really that bad.

Once I setup my music server, was much easier to play CD or high resolution audio than to play a record.  My entire digital library is on one 2TB solid state drive (SSD).  No moving parts for zero noise for replay.

For most things I only need Foobar2000 as a music player and Exact Audio Copy for taking the music data from CD's to files on the hard drive.  The high resolution files I download from places like HDTracks.com or other websites. 

Not hard to get going if you understand a file system on a computer, that is about all you need to start. 

Title: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Guy 13 on September 26, 2019, 05:55:25 AM
Guy13,
It is just new terminology to describe computer audio operation.  It can be a bit confusing to start, but not really that bad.

Once I setup my music server, was much easier to play CD or high resolution audio than to play a record.  My entire digital library is on one 2TB solid state drive (SSD).  No moving parts for zero noise for replay.

For most things I only need Foobar2000 as a music player and Exact Audio Copy for taking the music data from CD's to files on the hard drive.  The high resolution files I download from places like HDTracks.com or other websites. 

Not hard to get going if you understand a file system on a computer, that is about all you need to start.


Thanks HAL for the explanation.
Yes, simple, when you know how to do it.
If I want to RIP all my vinyl, CD, VHS, Hi8 and C90 cassettes I will have to learn the language
to understand how to do it.
Thanks.

Guy 13
Title: Re: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: jimbones on September 26, 2019, 06:07:31 AM
I now have an intel nuc using Roon Rock and Roon software for playback and DSP. Works reliably as a dedicated server. I stream Qobuz and files from my NAS. I still do experience Roon losing connection with the DAC but it starts right up again and the music does not stop. I think it is the fact that I am using a audiophile grade USB not a computer grade USB.
Title: The Pains of Computer Audio
Post by: Guy 13 on September 26, 2019, 06:31:37 AM
I now have an intel nuc using Roon Rock and Roon software for playback and DSP. Works reliably as a dedicated server. I stream Qobuz and files from my NAS. I still do experience Roon losing connection with the DAC but it starts right up again and the music does not stop. I think it is the fact that I am using a audiophile grade USB not a computer grade USB.

Hi Jim.
Humm mmm.... You are speaking a different language than HAL
or at least you are using a different system or set up.
I am looking for something super simple
and I don't really care about convenience.
I am sure if I browse thru my music library,
I will find something I like within 5 seconds.
It's because I will rip only the music I like a lot
and that music I like I will only listen once in a while,
because 95% of the time, I listen to Art Radio
and they more or less choose the music for me.
90% of the time, I listen to nature music, very relaxing.

Guy 13