AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Bipolar System Disorders => Topic started by: rollo on November 12, 2007, 07:17:53 AM
-
Call me crazy but it appears to me that the older guys like myself [56] prefer vinyl to CD. IMO its because we were weened on analog playback with tubed equip. My parents had a tubed console with phono. Radio was tube driven as well as TV sound. Its the sound we grew up with. Like comfort food as opposed to fast food.
Now the youngins say 30 and under had a different experience. Solid state and digital mostly. CDs, digital feed for radio, now i-pods and computer based digital. Amplfied live events. Oh my!
I am not saying one is preferable to the other just that we seem to migrate to the sound we grew up with. Any opinions?
rollo
-
I agree to a point. Way back when... when I was doing sales and CD was introduced, I knew a number of people with decent systems (and decent, well set up tables) that blew out their record collections, replacing everything with CDs. I even tested a few customers (including a Berkeley grad) by playing the same cuts on vinyl and aluminum (level matched of course) and asking which sounded more like real music. No one ever picked the CD, but they still kept with CD for convenience.
I think that those of us who stayed with vinyl did so because we knew what real music sounds like.
As far as SS vs. tubes, well that's a little different. My parents didn't have music in the house, except for a radio. So I missed the end of the 1st tube age. My system was solid state until I started playing around with a cj PV2. That's when the light went off for me! And it wasn't long until I was fully tube.
Once again, at least to me, I chose the path of what sounded more like real music.
But it wasn't what I grew up with, "comfort food" had nothing to do with it.
-
Rollo, I'm 55 and very much still into vinyl. For me, I really think it's a combination of great analog sound coupled with the nostalgia of spinning vinyl as well as a bit of collector mentality. (not to mention the ability to read what's written on the albums ;-). But, I'm also enough of an audio-geek to find myself very much engaged in exploring the digital/PC-audio side of things. That may have more to do with my engineering background and 25 years of working in the computer field. Two sides of the same hobby, but likely driven by different motives.
But, to my great dismay, I've got 3 daughters ranging in age from 15 to 30 that are totally content with MP3 music downloads and seem quite willing to have their entire collection on an iPod. Oh, where have I failed them?
-
I'm 42, on the cusp I think. I grew up with records, listened 4-6 hours everyday. I used cassette copies for portable/car. Could never afford CD equipment during the early days when it sucked. I love the sound of high end vinyl, the little of it that I have heard, which was very expensive rigs. I don't anticipate going into vinyl seriously because I only have about 200 records, and will not be buying more unless something I want is only available on vinyl.
When it is done well, vinyl is awesome, but that sound is expensive and inconvenient compared to digital. I don't like the record noise after getting used to silent background of CD, it prevents me from listening very deeply into the music as I would in a live performance. I like the dynamic range of uncompressed CD, not possible with LPs which are always compressed. I like not having to get up and flip the record halfway through a symphony. I like having all the music in a sandwich sized hard drive that would take a whole wall in LPs. I know what the downsides of digital sound like, and I beleive that the problems have been overcome by talented electronic designers. I think 24 bit/96kHz digital recordings are superior to vinyl in every possible way, because they eliminate the high frequency problems of 44.1kHz sampling and give a smooth natural sound like vinyl but without any of the drawbacks.
My father, 69, prefers vinyl for sentimental reasons and also so he can read the liner notes. He says CD notes are too small. He just got a new portable turntable (mid fi) which he loves. I have some LPs that are among my most treasured possessions, so I will always have a TT to play them, but not daddy big bucks. I always really enjoy the relaxed wholesome sound of records playing on the system, similar to listening to good FM radio.
-
Call me crazy but it appears to me that the older guys like myself [56] prefer vinyl to CD. IMO its because we were weened on analog playback with tubed equip. My parents had a tubed console with phono. Radio was tube driven as well as TV sound. Its the sound we grew up with. Like comfort food as opposed to fast food.
Now the youngins say 30 and under had a different experience. Solid state and digital mostly. CDs, digital feed for radio, now i-pods and computer based digital. Amplfied live events. Oh my!
I am not saying one is preferable to the other just that we seem to migrate to the sound we grew up with. Any opinions?
rollo
I am 55 and received my first "record player" when I was 7. I grew up with records and always thought they were a major pain in the rear because of the loving care they required. You young folks don't have a clue but high-end audio equipment in the 70's was very expensive. I still remember the shock of purchasing my first "turntable" and then having to plunk down a bunch more money for a cartiage for the turntable. My hat is off to you guys that love the sound produced from vinyl but no thanks I am not going back! I am adopting the streaming players with open arms!
Ken
-
At age 53 I obviously grew up with the variabilty of vinyl replay via my fathers SEARS SILVERTONE stereo system circa 1960. This was a tube integrated amp and separate tube tuner with my fathers DIY speakers using SEARS SILVERTONE Drivers. No money for records in high school meant I was listening to the pop music of the day on the radio and 8track tapes in my friends cars. Not much money in college and the diversion of 8track tapes which could be played both in the car and at home resulted in my not purchasing a turntable until my junior year in college. To put the 8track medium into perspective it was the mp3 of its' day.
Which put me where I am today,someone who enjoys vinyl replay but with only 200 or so records to show for more than thirty years in the hobby not very heavily invested or committed to it as my primary medium.
With my current vinyl setup I can clearly hear what happens to the leading edge of transients on the records as they are repeatedly played. With the demise of the JVC vinyl formulation most of the new records I purchased over the last decade rapidly lost the leading edge and have a rising noise floor. My best and least worn vinyl sounds similar to my good CDs except that the bass is not as extended, the highs are not quite as good and the sound stage is a little smaller in every dimension. I have to say that at this point CD is my main source. If they had made DVD-A a viable medium with music content that interested me I would have switched to it a long time ago. I am hoping for a stand alone media server
at an affordable price and no Microsoft involvement.
Scotty
-
43. Ouch, that still doesn't look right. How can I be 43 and still so incredibly immature?
Anyway, on topic, everything about CD's is better than records except for the most important thing: the sound. CD's are more convenient, easier to use and store, (mostly) less fragile, and easier to duplicate. They just don't sound as good as records.
Preferred medium: CDs that sound like vinyl.
-
How can I be 43 and still so incredibly immature? Anyway, on topic....
Being immature is always on-topic at AN! haha
I am hoping for a stand alone media server at an affordable price and no Microsoft involvement.
Slimserver is free, runs fast and reliably on Linux with Squeezebox as client for $300. The stock sound won't challenge a good vinyl rig, but wise mods or a DAC can give you the full potential of redbook, at least. With Verizon bringing fiber into the home on a big scale and others starting to talk about doing it also, I'm hoping hi res digital music downloads will become more available AND that next Squeezebox will have 24/96 capable digital output. Oops, I'm showing my naive immaturity..... again
Rich
-
Well, being one of the youngest here (late 30's)... PC-based audio is by far my favorite format. My primary reason is the sound quality.. the convenience and organization capabilities are nice too.
Streaming players like the SB3 are good but I still prefer the direct-from-PC sound the most. And I prefer any PC-based source over one that's spinning a CD.
All that said, I DO like vinyl... and it sounds incredible when done right... and I enjoy it almost as a 'novelty' where I turn off my critical listening ears and just enjoy the music.... My expectations are lower for vinyl. I know it's going to hiss, pop, or crackle now and then... so why bother getting super-focused for critical listening? Every now and then I get a new record that's essentially noise-free and I'll compare it to the PC-based rig... Most recently I compared the a new 'Shins' record to the SB3/Scott Nixon DAC combo I'm using on my temporary hifi system... It was not scientific but there was definitely a little more crispness and/or extension in the highs on the vinyl rig... fairly surprising to me.
I grew up in the tail end of vinyl... I bought Men at Work and Yes 90125 on vinyl... but then quickly moved to tapes and then cd's throughout my 6 or so years of college... My family had a few records... but never listened to them... So I don't have a lot of nostalgia but I have some... and I enjoy a fully analog path... (I also like a fully digital path.) I have found it difficult to have both in 1 system.... So, I've got a system that isn't purpose built for either but sounds really good for both.
-C
-
I agree with Carl... when I listen to vinyl, I listen differently... less nervosa, more relaxing into the music... and, for me, it can be a bit of a trip back to a simpler time. I've got a nice analog rig and with good recordings, I think it does sound better than any digital I've heard. But I've also got lots of 40 year old LPs that have been thru a few of life's battles with me. They don't sound nearly as good as their digital counterparts and yet... I'll never sell them and I still love to spin them occasionally.
-
I agree with Carl... when I listen to vinyl, I listen differently... less nervosa, more relaxing into the music... and, for me, it can be a bit of a trip back to a simpler time. I've got a nice analog rig and with good recordings, I think it does sound better than any digital I've heard. But I've also got lots of 40 year old LPs that have been thru a few of life's battles with me. They don't sound nearly as good as their digital counterparts and yet... I'll never sell them and I still love to spin them occasionally.
A simpler time for sure. Analog for me brings back some found memories indeed. The family sitting around that tubed Magnavox console watching Ed Sullivan after eating a pound of canolies. Dad used to play some Sinatra and Count Basie while Mom was cooking the Sunday sauce. So for me the sound of analog is cozy and warm like when I was a kid
I enjoy my CDP very much. It can give me goosebumps at times. The Vynl and analog setup just brings more goosebumps for me. With todays new pressings from Acoustic Sounds, Classic Records and the like its dejavu all over again. With a large record collection vinyl will always be a part of my life.
In a short time [ God willing] CD or its replacement will clearly surpass Vynl. With todays computer technology and some recent players the future looks bright. If they mess up or "F" us around like before there is still good old Vynl.
Whether its CD or LP its so much fun to try to create the illusion of real instruments in our listening rooms. Yes illusion. Thats another issue though. Happy listening and pass the canolies.
rollo
-
Rollo.... Cannoli, 56 years old, Sinatra... are you my long lost twin? :rofl:
Seriously, where did you grow up? Sounds northeast to me...
-
Rollo.... Cannoli, 56 years old, Sinatra... are you my long lost twin? :rofl:
Seriously, where did you grow up? Sounds northeast to me...
Could be, my father was mailman HeHeHe. Kidding aside I grew up in Brooklyn NY then Whitestone Queens. If yur in Ny come over for a nica plate of pasta and some canolies.
rollo
-
I love both but digital grates my nerves sometimes and I need to upgrade my TT to get a more pleasing sound(caused by my wife hearing my friends much better TT setup).
come over for a nica plate of pasta and some canolies.
Man if I lived closer to you...... :drool:
John
-
John,
If your a good boy I'll send you the recipe for the "Sauce" [ Sunday sauce that is ]. It dates back over 150 years to my great Grandmother from Sicily. Simple and delicous.
rollo
-
John,
If your a good boy I'll send you the recipe for the "Sauce" [ Sunday sauce that is ]. It dates back over 150 years to my great Grandmother from Sicily. Simple and delicous.
rollo
Glad to see the Sicilians are represented on the forum. "Sauce" was also known as "Gravy (http://www.angelfire.com/va3/sundaygravy/)" when I was growing up. Anyway, went to Sicily a couple years ago for two weeks, and would go back in a heartbeat. They definitely prefer a much firmer al dente than Americans. And the wine from Etna seems akin to the stuff that Odysseus used to put the Cyclops to sleep - highly recommended. Great places to visit, wonderful ruins and museums, colorful persons everywhere, seafood to die for (the sardines are out of this world, add some cuttlefish, squid, shrimp, other fish, etc. - Manga, Eat!)
Funny to be reminded of cooking and relatives, although the closeness to Thanksgiving makes it seem less remarkable and all the more reasonable. I remember my Sicilian grandmother making pasta all over the dining room table - pappardelle type ribbons of eggy freshness, ricotta-stuffed ravioli, her homemade sauce/gravy with tons of meatballs / sausage (hot & sweet) / braciole, the fresh bread and sweet butter, grandpa's [he started the Garibaldi Club in my mom's hometown] homemade vino (we kids would get a small shot of the stuff topped off with lots of 7Up), killer salad with veggies right out of grandma's garden, homemade cannoli, etc., etc. One of the funny things is that grandma used to make snails, some of which escaped the cooking and took to crawling around where often times they would end up on the curtains. I remember we used to delight when visiting to see if we could find where the snails had gotten to. And the audio in the background was provided by a multitubed old time wood stand radio, with it's wonderful glow and warmed-dusty smell. Don't even get me started about the scratchy old Victrola! Good times, good food, good people (many now gone), good memories. More things to be thankful for as Thursday draws near, and more memories to make.
-
Thats a nice! Very touching. Now pass the gravy and braciole. Happy Thanksgiving.
rollo
-
Thats a nice! Very touching. Now pass the gravy and braciole. Happy Thanksgiving.
rollo
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
-
You guys are killing me. I live in South Carolina, (late of the Jersey Shore). There is nothing to eat here... unless you like it deep fried...or bar-bee-cued with mustard sauce.
Rollo- you have an email address from Manhattan. I'm jealous as hell. You can eat whatever and whenever you want. (I know it's Manhattan because I work for Time Warner Cable on the data side. I recognize your domain).
-
You guys are killing me. I live in South Carolina, (late of the Jersey Shore). There is nothing to eat here... unless you like it deep fried...or bar-bee-cued with mustard sauce.
Rollo- you have an email address from Manhattan. I'm jealous as hell. You can eat whatever and whenever you want. (I know it's Manhattan because I work for Time Warner Cable on the data side. I recognize your domain).
What do you need we can ship it.
rollo
-
What do you need we can ship it.
rollo
How about one of each item off the menu from every restaurant in a ten block radius.? That ought to hold me for a couple days. I've been Down South for a dozen years, so I need to make up for a lot of lost meals.
-
Guy's, I'm 57,and prefer vinyl. I went over to my mothers the other day,and pulled the back off of the "silvertone" console that my dad got in the sixties(He worked for Sears) and guess what---tubes everywhere,,.I find myself listening to my old vinyl collection more and more,,the only downside,is that I have to get up and change the record. To me there is something more"organic,lush, and warm with vinyl. Just my .02 worth. :D
-
Gawd. And here I sat, thinking that though I was the new guy I was also the old flatus.
Like rollo, I am on the cusp. I'm 46 (late bloomer checking in) and grew up with music on the black spinny stuff. In retrospect I am amazed at how casually my family (and later the guys in the dorm) treated their records. Todays vinyl audiophile reminds me of a gardening club for surgeons, orthodontists and archaeologists. Love those tiny shovels...
I like vinyl and CD about equally. I threw very much money at the "digital sound" problem. Now, eating my dog food and polishing my dCS stack, I feel it's fixed. I became aware of the high end in the '80s, so I wasn't indoctrinated into tubes. I haven't yet tried deep-frying my dog food. Hmmmm .... the Elgar runs surprisingly hot, and there's like this cooktop surface on it. Anyone have Reference Grade lard?
cheers ww
-
Wet weasel,
No lard but, but some extra virgin first cold pressed olive oil pressed by monks using maple planks damped with brass ending with a purity of 8 out 9. Sealed in a resonant free bottle colored green to ward off laser misreads. If you rub a little behind your left ear, not right you'll hear a slide guitar like never before. Or a small amount on CD to ward off evil spirits, works every time.
rollo
-
Hi Guys,
I'm 46 and was brought up on vinyl. I bought my first decent hifi system in 1986 it was a rega 2, nad integrated and a pair of monitor audio 352's. I really liked the sound that I got from my system. In 1989 I bought a $1000au Nakamichi om2 cdp and it totally sucked. I gave up on vinyl in 1992 when my young son kept on destroying my stylus.
I currently have a bluenote piccolo turntable, benz micro $200 us cartridge, bluenote de medici/classic cornet phonostage and it sounds pretty good imo. Much of the music that I like totally sucks on cd. I do have a pretty good cd system and I also like it when I can get a good cd.
Regards
Rod
-
Well I'm 47 and of course grew up before CD's existed. My first TT was some portable I conned my mother into buying at a garage sale when I was about 10 and I promptly figured out a way to wire it into the BW console TV with it's giant oval speaker that was something like 6x20 if memory serves correctly. I guess the desire to hack and modify gear stems from that. :)
My mother was a garage sale junkie in the 70's and pretty much all of my gear and records came from there. By the time I was in my early teens I had some fairly decent stuff with a Garrard and Elac TT, a nice HH Scott integrated and Scott tuner and even an old Teac 3340 reel to reel ($10). I built my own speakers until about 91 when I finally got married, the demise of my hifi hobby for quite some time... In the 80's I had bought a Yamaha CD player as it sounded better than everything else in the shop. I can still remember auditioning that CDP, the salesman and other folks in the store thought I was nuts, as all CD's sounded the same -perfect- of course. By the time I got married (the first time) I had gotten rid of the tubes and had a Carver C4000 preamp and M400 power amp and a Thorens TD160/Shure V-15 IV and of course the Yamaha CDP. I had close to 1000 records or so and still preferred the sound to CD but alas the lack of space and need for funds along with a very insistent wife prompted the sale of the record collection for not very much money. An event I despise to this day.
Thankfully I stored the Thorens in the crawlspace and returned it to service when that marriage had ended and I could enjoy music once again. Sadly the old Thorens hadn't fared well during it's 6 years in the crawl space. Belt was just dust and the suspension on the Shure was pretty much shot. A new belt and a Grado cart brought it back to life and I borrowed a few records from my mother and decided I liked the sound of records but the platter bearing of the Thorens as pretty well shot as well. Now I have a Teres based TT that I built with a motor and bearing I purchased from Teres and it sounds very nice and in many ways more musical than my digital setup. However, I rarely play records though I have about 500 of the things.
I believe there are two reasons for that. 1) I'm very happy with my digital rig (Squeezebox in larger case with high quality power supply and many modifications feeding a modified DCX2496 crossover) and 2) convenience. Not so much the cleaning/flipping of records but having to paw through the rack looking for something I want to hear. There is no comparison to just using the remote to browse various genres until something sounds good.
I really like the vinyl setup but I rarely use it. I have actually been thinking about selling it but I just have so damn much time and money in it, I know I'll take a bath if I do. :(
mike