Author Topic: Lightspeed Attenuators  (Read 29323 times)

Offline bpape

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2010, 12:49:17 PM »
Thanks Doug

What I'm looking for is just the attenuator.  I'm going to try to retrofit it into a Grounded Grid like one of the posts above in this thread.  I like the pre but I think the current control is holding things back along with needing to damp the case.

Bryan
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Offline bpape

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2010, 01:06:07 PM »
I emailed them a couple of times.  Looks like you need:

1 set LDR - $35
1 LDR mount board - $10
2 LDR controller boards - $8 ea
2 kit component sets. - $15 ea
1 pot - $2.50

Comes up to about $95 pre shipping.  My understanding is that this does not include the 5v supply.

Bryan
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 01:10:42 PM by bpape »
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evan1

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2010, 04:05:16 AM »
I'm going to bump this thread because I heard an autoformer in my system last night and I was very impressed. It just opened up the sound of my amp and speakers while my Candela seems to supress the upper end and dynamics. I was searching the web and came across all different passive preamps , volume controls,etc... This caught my eye and seems like great deal . Anyone with any experience with these

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1292085903

http://www.luminousaudio.com/zcart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=18
or any other. Should I expect similar results ?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 04:07:23 AM by evan1 »

shep

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2010, 05:42:58 AM »
I have used passives for years and in theory thois should be good but I am a bit confused by the description since he talks about alps pot and Caddock resistors. Unless I am missing something you either have a stepped resistor pot or an Alps type. The two are not the same thing.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2010, 07:02:40 AM »
A pot in a box will outperform an active preamp in some ways like transient speed and noise because there's only the pot in the signal path. But there is a cost. A well designed active preamp can be as clear as a pot and add the buffer which is needed in most systems. Voltage amplification is usually not needed in the simple systems most of us use today, that's why passives keep popping up. But they don't take over the world because after the transient clarity buzz wears off, you realize you miss the current buffer powering the wires and input stage adequately. You lose density and wonder, "Where's the beef?"

The autoformer is quieter than the pot because there are no resistors. You will have some harmonic distortion from magnetic induction but it is 3rd order and most people consider that harmless or even desirable.

The LDR is a resistor, but quieter and more transparent than the pot. It has virtually no harmonic distortion.

There are no temporary or sliding connections with LDR, all signal connections are soldered. Temporary connections like a pot slider or switch add noise and raise impedance. A pot has sliding plastic element, so music goes through a piece of metallized plastic. With the autoformer you switch between one winding and another to change volume level, so you need a switch.  There are very good switches in the world, but they still add noise and impedance, and need to be cleaned, cost a lot, etc. But autoformer is a lot better than a pot.

I think the Axiom uses an Alps pot for the variable element, and uses a few passive resistors to improve the circuit. For $149 there can't be much in there.

Offline topround

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2010, 07:11:43 AM »
I no longer think of what I can buy, but rather what can I build.
That being said, Slagles' autoformers are  excellent sounding pieces of passivesness.
They do all that a good passive does and a litlle of what an active does, though not completely.
I agree with Rich that a good active can be wonderful, but those autoformers do something that is so open and refined and stress free. If you ever get the chance to have the autoformers in your system you will hear all the bad things even an excellent active pre does. It will suprise you.

I look at this like hmmm how about building an active with autoformer volume controls!

That is what is in my sights....oh...and....transformers rule :thumb:

mike


System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2010, 12:15:11 PM »
I think what has to be factored into the equation at this point is the ability of many of the newer DAC chips to attenuate their output in the digital domain. This capability when coupled with a state of the art output stage eliminates the need for the impedance matching function of the preamp. When you can directly drive the load you can now do a bypass comparison that evaluates what is lost or what kind of colorations have been added by the the preamp. I think we have the potential to see more preamps designed that will pass a bypass test if this tool is taken advantage of.
Scotty

Offline richidoo

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2010, 01:34:29 PM »
Good point Scotty. 32 bit volume control throws away 16 bits to attenuate by -96dB and has still not harmed the 16 bit audio stream at all. I rely on that for my system, connecting the DAC directly to amps. I only need an analog volume control for my phono preamp. If the active crossover kick I'm on works out, I will A>D analog sources too.

evan1

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 01:00:57 PM »
Ok and I know what your all going to say but I got my hands on a Promitheous TVC,thanks Martin. I'll bet you never had the electric company come that fast before :rofl: Anyway it sounds very decent and is very heavy. Only listening for a few minutes but it has more transparency than my preamp amd from what I can remember from the autoformer the Aformer has more detail and a quieter backround. Maybe later this week I'll borrow it again and compare. Too much stuff here this week ,Nuforce amps ,Autoformer,Promitheous TVC ,still breaking in the speakers :duh And to think I wont even be able to make it Mike's Rave Saturday :rofl: So right now in order of preference it goes

Autoformer
Promitheus TVC
Odyssey Candela



Offline richidoo

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2010, 01:08:43 PM »
Evan, I emailed John Chapman (Bent Audio) today an impedance question about his TAPX preamp. He wrote this in response which I think is interesting. Since topround's autoformer VC is the same slagleformer as used in the TAPX I thought you might find it interesting too.

"On 20/10/2010 10:37 AM, Rich wrote:
> Hi John!  I hope you are doing great.
> What is the input impedance of the TAP-X preamp?  What is output impedance with and without active buffer engaged?
> Maybe it's not a flat impedance with the autoformers?
> Thanks
> Rich

"Hello!

Yes - it is not flat by design. If it were flat then it would not get better as you turn the volume down and that is the primary reason to use autoformers in the first place! I like to see about 600 ohms or less feeding the autoformers and the system is really quite forgiving of amp impedance - I have tested as low as 600 ohms although 5K is a typical lower end you'd want to use. Most amps are well above that level and an easy load to drive.  With a low output impedance source you can even drive headphones using the autoformers - a recent customer did that and reported great results. I'll have to play with that myself one of these days.....

Thansk!

John"

evan1

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2010, 01:11:41 PM »
thanks for the info,I'm actually on both of the websites now doing some research

AcidJazz

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2010, 03:13:11 PM »
Quote
I'll bet you never had the electric company come that fast before ROFLMAO

True...and I forgot to ask you to hook me up with some clean energy.  :lol:
That was a big ole' truck...I at least figured they would have nice new shinny electric vehicles for you to drive around in.
Enjoy.  :thumb:

manaox2

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2010, 07:59:34 AM »
I have two matched stereo optivol LDR attenuators from Ska audio. http://www.ska-audio.com/diy/optivol.html

Not sure how they compare, am/was planning to use them in a balanced stereo hybrid headphone/preamp design (Aikido low-voltage). Not sure what to do with this project as the 6gm8 tube collection I made for use with it has dramatically increased in price that I could outfit that whole amp with caddock resistors for the price they could probably fetch these days.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 08:01:31 AM by manaox2 »

Offline richidoo

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2010, 09:09:06 AM »
The SKA LDRs look like the Silonex parts that is used in the commercial Lightspeed.

With 27kOhm input impedance and required 100kOhm output impedance it should work fine with tube Aikido 6GM8 if it's input impedance is 100kOhm. There is an impedance chart in the Aikido manual, maybe it lists 6GM8. If not, just build it and see. You can always put a buffer in front of it.
http://www.tubecad.com/2006/04/blog0059.htm

Thanks for the link to SKA VC. That's cool!
Rich

Offline rollo

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Re: Lightspeed Attenuators
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2010, 11:31:24 AM »
 I have quite a bit of experience with passives during my Promitheus excapade. The final design the dual mono "C" cores is their finest offering. not only did it have some meat on the bone it has the clarity we all love.
  If ones amp has a very low input sensitivity [ the lower the better] say below 1 mv your a candidate for a passive. All the resistor based passives except the custom order Mapleshade are lean and sterile in character. The original Bent units were as close to an active as one could get, however still thin in ccomparison to an active.
  What I'm curious to try is a LDR volume control within an active Pre a la DartZheel or Melos SHA. I have yet to hear Daves Slageforrmers wich makes a lot of sense to me.
  Besides the benifits of clarity and less noise not buying NOS tubes for the active is very attractive. At our rave meeting we listened to the Promitheus [ modded by Mapleshade] and loved the results. When  we inserted the Loesh and Weisner active Pre, it gained weight texture. I believe a combo would be the ticket. When the Nervosa gets going again a mod is in order. My recent tube/amp escapade  took the wind out of my sails for a while.


charles


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