AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Tubes => Topic started by: spm3 on July 26, 2017, 11:26:00 AM

Title: KT150
Post by: spm3 on July 26, 2017, 11:26:00 AM
Has anyone listened to the KT150's yet?
I just bought a matched quad. It should reach me next week.

Wondering if anyone has opinions on these before I open my own
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on July 26, 2017, 12:13:12 PM
What amp for those?
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on July 26, 2017, 12:28:54 PM
I have the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium Integrated
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: dBe on July 26, 2017, 07:43:26 PM
I have the PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium Integrated
Cool.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: richidoo on July 27, 2017, 09:24:20 AM
While the pins fit, the amp doesn't have big enough transformers to get either the full power or best sound quality out of the KT150, so don't be surprised if you find that the stock tubes (EL34 type) sound better than the KT150s, because they are getting all the juice they need to sound their best while KT150 gets half of what it wants and would easily saturate the OPT if allowed to make full power. Hopefully the KT150s will still make better tone and presence than your stock tubes, but usually tubes sounds best when powered closer to their max ratings. Kevin Deal (PrimaLuna importer) is a master marketer but he's not a chister, so I'm sure it will sound good if he says try KT150. I look forward to your take as I'm intrigued by these big tubes also. The little amp will be dwarfed by the huge glass! Pictures please!
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: richidoo on July 27, 2017, 09:26:01 AM
Last year, Legacy Audio demonstrated their big speakers with these 400W, $50k   KT150 amps.

https://www.ravenaudio.com/Shaman-MK2-Monoblocks_p_13.html
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on July 27, 2017, 05:46:50 PM
I had the same concerns as Rich. While the KT 150s are pin compatible with EL 34s, Kt88s etc, they do have more output and therefore put more demand on the output transformers. But even more critical than that, they require more bias currrent and even many amps designed around KT 88s/6550 do not have enough headroom in their power supplies to run KT 120s, nevermind KT 150s.

With this in mind I took a look at the specs on PrimaLuna's web site and low and behold, that little integrated is designed right out of the factory to handle all of those tubes right up to and including the KT 150s.

I was very impressed.  :thumb:
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on July 27, 2017, 08:28:33 PM
Has anyone listened to the KT150's yet?
I just bought a matched quad. It should reach me next week.

Wondering if anyone has opinions on these before I open my own


Geez, I do miss tube gear a bit...it's been 20 years. You are going to report what you think, right??
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on July 28, 2017, 12:07:39 PM
Has anyone listened to the KT150's yet?
I just bought a matched quad. It should reach me next week.

Wondering if anyone has opinions on these before I open my own


Geez, I do miss tube gear a bit...it's been 20 years. You are going to report what you think, right??
Nick

Nick you would be surprised how much closer the sound of good tube gear and good solid state gear has become over the past 20 years. Which only makes sense since any tube or solid state sound is really nothing but distortion (which by definition is anthing in a signal that varies for the original input. It doesn't matter if the resultant sound is good or bad, if it is in any way different from the input (except for the increased amplitude, it is distorted .) So it only come to reason that as both tube and solid state designs get better over time (less distorted) they will start to sound more and more like each other.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: jimbones on July 28, 2017, 07:07:56 PM
Shawn is incommunicado for a few days as he went out of the country.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on July 28, 2017, 09:20:54 PM
Has anyone listened to the KT150's yet?
I just bought a matched quad. It should reach me next week.

Wondering if anyone has opinions on these before I open my own


Geez, I do miss tube gear a bit...it's been 20 years. You are going to report what you think, right??
Nick

Nick you would be surprised how much closer the sound of good tube gear and good solid state gear has become over the past 20 years. Which only makes sense since any tube or solid state sound is really nothing but distortion (which by definition is anthing in a signal that varies for the original input. It doesn't matter if the resultant sound is good or bad, if it is in any way different from the input (except for the increased amplitude, it is distorted .) So it only come to reason that as both tube and solid state designs get better over time (less distorted) they will start to sound more and more like each other.

Tom,
Distortion, yes..but it sure sounds great! You know I love my McCormack amp, but I did think about a tube amp just for a change of pace. I was looking at a couple, maybe Prima Luna, Golden Tube Audio, not sure what others now as it was a year or two ago. But retubing on a couple of those was about $200 and thats not a "maintenance fee" that I want every couple of years. Also, my SP Tech's are 86 db. So the safe bet for me is still ss.
Nick
 
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on July 28, 2017, 10:13:51 PM
I certainly wasn't trying to diss either SS or tube amps, just commenting that  the better they both get the small the difference becomes between them.

$200 for a retube set sounds like a great deal to me. My Audio Research VT-200  uses 16 power tubes and 10 small signal tubes. $1880 for a culled and burnt set from ARC, $1200 from commercial tube sellers.  Glorious sound, but when it comes time for tubes... ouch.  :duh
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on July 29, 2017, 10:15:42 AM
Tom,
 I was just having some fun with the concept/definition of distortion. I'd love to try a tube amp again some day, but then again, saving on retubing costs has allowed me to get an Uber.  As to the Audio Research, the first and only time I've ever heard it in an individuals home was over 20 years ago and the guy was playing vinyl. An absolutely exquisite sound. Here was this handsome 50 year old guy with AR gear and he had a 25 year old girlfriend who was as exquisite as the sound. Now that's a win/win on many levels....
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on July 29, 2017, 11:22:04 AM
And a 25 year old girlfriend who obviously put up with his audio obsessions!!!

That's a win/win/win.   :thumb:
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: sleepyguy24 on July 29, 2017, 12:32:02 PM
Hi spm3

I had a Jolida 502P with Tung Sol KT-150 and it was a wonderful combination. I had solid bass with sweet mid range of EL34s. So much better than the Tung Sol KT-120 or KT-88s IMO. I hope the KT-150s work will with your gear and you can enjoy the music.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: jimbones on July 29, 2017, 04:24:43 PM
Tubes and boobs! Cant beat that combo
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on July 30, 2017, 09:18:56 PM
Tubes and boobs! Cant beat that combo

And in both cases, most guys would say that bigger is definitely better.  :lol:  :yay2: :lol:
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: DRN on July 31, 2017, 03:18:11 AM
Sometimes....if you're talking Kardashian............never mind.

I use the kt120s and they are pretty nice.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 02, 2017, 07:09:39 AM
HAHA  :rofl:
Some of these comments are too funny  :lol:

I got back from India yesterday. I will be installing the KT150 tubes today, and I will send pics and my first impressions tomorrow.
Hoping it'll sound amazing!!!


Shawn
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 02, 2017, 07:15:13 AM
HAHA  :rofl:
Some of these comments are too funny  :lol:

I got back from India yesterday. I will be installing the KT150 tubes today, and I will send pics and my first impressions tomorrow.
Hoping it'll sound amazing!!!


Shawn

Yes sir .... hoping for great sound  :thumb:
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: steve on August 03, 2017, 09:02:44 AM
Hi spm3

I had a Jolida 502P with Tung Sol KT-150 and it was a wonderful combination. I had solid bass with sweet mid range of EL34s. So much better than the Tung Sol KT-120 or KT-88s IMO. I hope the KT-150s work will with your gear and you can enjoy the music.

I agree Sleepy, I did not like the Tung Sol KT88s either, and if the 120s are similar, would not like them either.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 03, 2017, 11:56:02 AM
Okay.. So I listened to the new tubes for about 30 mins last night, and i'll listen to it even more tonight.
The pics are attached - the tubes are huge! The cage doesn't fit on the amp anymore with these KT150's installed, so I put the cage away in a safe place for now.

First impressions - these tubes definitely have power!
The stock EL34 tubes the PrimaLuna comes with sounds so beautiful and it goes super well with my ML speakers, but these KT150's doubles the wattage output of the EL34's. I read somewhere that in order to hear a difference power-wise, you need to double the power and have good output transformers to go with it - EL34 ~ 35 watts/channel // KT150 ~ 70 watts/channel.

Immediate response to the sound is having to turn it down. It is louder than before.
Also, I noticed the bass notes coming out more. I started feeling the vibrations a little more in some parts of the song. That was nice.
I also noticed that the vocals come out more now, but I'm not sure if thats because its louder or if it's because it actually made the vocal sound stage stronger.

So far so good. I am curious to see how these tubes do with some of my movie soundtracks. Some soundtracks I always felt needed more power, so I'm hoping this will do the trick!
If anyone is curious, one of my favorite movie soundtrack is called: 'Amistad' by John Williams - that will be what I use to test the new tubes in that world of music.


Shawn
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: richidoo on August 03, 2017, 02:47:36 PM
Cool! Thanks for the pictures! Boy they are big. But doesn't dwarf the amp, looks pretty good.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 03, 2017, 02:49:42 PM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 03, 2017, 03:08:45 PM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 03, 2017, 03:25:58 PM
If and when you get a chance, compare the KT150 against a 845 based amp.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 03, 2017, 07:14:29 PM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)

A tempting offer  :drool: You know so Cal is my old stomping grounds. Would love to hear some of those tube amps I see on your website
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 04, 2017, 05:09:53 AM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Well.. I got these tubes from Upscale Audio, so Kevin said he burns in his tubes before sending them out.
So he says they should be good to go right when I put them in. But normally KT150's take between 30 to 50 hours to break in
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 04, 2017, 05:11:43 AM
If and when you get a chance, compare the KT150 against a 845 based amp.

I never even heard of a 845 based amp. What is that?
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 04, 2017, 06:30:42 AM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)

A tempting offer  :drool: You know so Cal is my old stomping grounds. Would love to hear some of those tube amps I see on your website
Nick

Come to THE Show in Anaheim in September then.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 04, 2017, 06:31:00 AM
If and when you get a chance, compare the KT150 against a 845 based amp.

I never even heard of a 845 based amp. What is that?

845 tube.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 04, 2017, 06:36:05 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EzArd-P5Bg

Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 04, 2017, 07:48:35 AM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)

A tempting offer  :drool: You know so Cal is my old stomping grounds. Would love to hear some of those tube amps I see on your website
Nick

Come to THE Show in Anaheim in September then.


Hugh,
I am trying to make that happen. Looks good so far.
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 04, 2017, 08:31:32 AM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)

A tempting offer  :drool: You know so Cal is my old stomping grounds. Would love to hear some of those tube amps I see on your website
Nick

Come to THE Show in Anaheim in September then.


Hugh,
I am trying to make that happen. Looks good so far.
Nick

Let me know so I can get you a badge.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 04, 2017, 12:45:15 PM
Nice, Shawn. Very nice. As I'm not a tube guy, these need how many hours to sound decent??
Nick

Come on over Nick. ;)

A tempting offer  :drool: You know so Cal is my old stomping grounds. Would love to hear some of those tube amps I see on your website
Nick

Come to THE Show in Anaheim in September then.


Hugh,
I am trying to make that happen. Looks good so far.
Nick

Let me know so I can get you a badge.

Badges? Badges? I don't need no stinkin' badges!! Umm, sorry..classic movies flashback 😀😀
I appreciate that, Hugh.
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on August 05, 2017, 06:30:31 AM
(https://silverscreenings.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/18yn5qcx2sjbhjpg.jpg?w=400&h=301)
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 05, 2017, 08:03:25 AM
(https://silverscreenings.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/18yn5qcx2sjbhjpg.jpg?w=400&h=301)

Tom,
You don't like the University of Wisconsin??? Can hardly wait for college football to start...but I digress
....again  :roll: :roll:
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 07, 2017, 11:12:31 AM
Okay, these tubes are insane!
These tubes now give a new depth to the music I've been listening to. I can hear notes that I haven't heard before, and the bass is so solid!
My system sounds like never before - I can't believe it!

I 100% recommend these tubes. They are great!
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on August 07, 2017, 07:30:12 PM
They seem to be ARC's tube of choice right now, so you are not the only one who likes them. But , that said, as I mentioned before they have much higher current requirements in terms of both output and operating currents (bias and filament) so even though they are pin compatible with other EL34/KT-88 tubes, there are not a lot a amps that can use them as a plug in replacement for the tubes they came out of the factory with.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: steve on August 08, 2017, 10:29:45 AM
They seem to be ARC's tube of choice right now, so you are not the only one who likes them. But , that said, as I mentioned before they have much higher current requirements in terms of both output and operating currents (bias and filament) so even though they are pin compatible with other EL34/KT-88 tubes, there are not a lot a amps that can use them as a plug in replacement for the tubes they came out of the factory with.

That filament is what worries me in most amps. The tubes could be biased conservatively for less plate current, thus not overloading the power supply, but I wonder if the sonics will suffer?

In my monoblock amps, I am currently running either Winged Cs/Bugleboy E88CC, or with a slight adjustment, SED KT88s/JJ E88cc, they both sound incredible. Some day I would not mind trying the KT 150s to see how good they are but with the unbelievable sound of the KT88s, I don' t see any great need.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Nick B on August 08, 2017, 10:53:05 AM
Okay, these tubes are insane!
These tubes now give a new depth to the music I've been listening to. I can hear notes that I haven't heard before, and the bass is so solid!
My system sounds like never before - I can't believe it!

I 100% recommend these tubes. They are great!

Great news, Shawn. I was hoping they would sound great for you. Any idea when you would need to retube?
Nick
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: tmazz on August 08, 2017, 10:11:03 PM

In my monoblock amps, I am currently running either Winged Cs/Bugleboy E88CC, or with a slight adjustment, SED KT88s/JJ E88cc, they both sound incredible. Some day I would not mind trying the KT 150s to see how good they are but with the unbelievable sound of the KT88s, I don' t see any great need.

Cheers

Steve

Hey, if it ain't baroque, don't fix it.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: jimbones on August 09, 2017, 04:02:39 AM
Tom, i believe shawn was between a rock and a hard place  :duh
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: spm3 on August 09, 2017, 06:47:36 AM
Okay, these tubes are insane!
These tubes now give a new depth to the music I've been listening to. I can hear notes that I haven't heard before, and the bass is so solid!
My system sounds like never before - I can't believe it!

I 100% recommend these tubes. They are great!

Great news, Shawn. I was hoping they would sound great for you. Any idea when you would need to retube?
Nick


Nick,

From what I understand, they last about 3k hours with my PrimaLuna. So maybe 3 years depending on amount of use?
I'd say it will last me closer to 3 years before I would need to retube

Shawn
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: Hugh on August 09, 2017, 09:05:31 AM
FWIW, my original Melody SHW1688 Pre still has the original tubes after more than 15 years or so of constant use.
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: steve on August 09, 2017, 08:08:31 PM

In my monoblock amps, I am currently running either Winged Cs/Bugleboy E88CC, or with a slight adjustment, SED KT88s/JJ E88cc, they both sound incredible. Some day I would not mind trying the KT 150s to see how good they are but with the unbelievable sound of the KT88s, I don' t see any great need.

Cheers

Steve

Hey, if it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

My sentiments as well Tmazz. I have 7 Winged C KT88s, and 6 Winged C 6550s. I also have 4 SED KT88s, and other brands.

My interest is two fold, but mainly the first point.

1) See if I can obtain the same sonics with newly manufacturered tubes, like SED6550s vs NOS tubes. I have in my monoblocks.

2) With the KT150s, I can obtain a nice power output increase in triode mode and of course UL mode, but not too important right now.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: jhrlrd on July 25, 2018, 11:06:59 PM
I have an integrated that takes all sorts of tubes.
Originally running EL34s, and they have sweet midrange.
But when I cranked it up the bass went flabby. After clearing it with the
Manufacturer, I put in a quad of KT150s. They retained the sweet
Mids but kept the tight bass punch when cranked. Love em
Title: Re: KT150
Post by: rollo on July 26, 2018, 10:04:23 AM
I have an integrated that takes all sorts of tubes.
Originally running EL34s, and they have sweet midrange.
But when I cranked it up the bass went flabby. After clearing it with the
Manufacturer, I put in a quad of KT150s. They retained the sweet
Mids but kept the tight bass punch when cranked. Love em


   Good to know enjoy !

charles