AudioNervosa
Music Ward => Album Reviews => Topic started by: jsaliga on September 04, 2011, 08:08:13 AM
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I really don't know how many of you are buying the 45 RPM reissues from Music Matters and Analogue Productions. I have bought a lot of them over the years and continue to do so.
I have said elsewhere that I thought Chad Kassem missed a great opportunity with the launch of Quality Record Pressings to offer audiophiles something new that they haven't seen before. I have made no bones about my being a bit underwhelmed by the choice of initial offerings.
My main interest in high quality reissues is classical and jazz. I just don't think that most rock will benefit as much from the extra resolution of 45RPM vinyl and have been content to mainly buy original vintage rock pressings because they are both plentiful and cheap. So you won't find me springing for a 180g or 200g reissue, of say, The Who Sells Out when I have an original minty pressing of it in my music library that sounds great.
In the classical and jazz world things are much different. Minty original pressings of prized classical and especially jazz recordings have become increasingly rare and are usually cost-prohibitive to buy on the collector market. So to me reissuing these recordings on high quality 45RPM 180g LPs makes a lot of sense. While the price of admission for these audiophile LPs is typically between $50 and $60, I still consider them to be a value because originals will often sell for two to three times that, and sometimes much more.
A couple of weeks ago I had a long discussion with someone at Acoustic Sounds when I called in an order because I was having problems with the website. I would like to use this thread to compile a wishlist of titles and artists that you would like to see reissued on high quality 45RPM 180g vinyl. Please be realistic about your wants, and try to list albums that others might be interested in too. The market for these expensive reissues is relatively small, and if you list obscure records that no one has heard of then your chances of seeing it on 45RPM vinyl are practically zero.
Also, I ask that people not clutter this thread with posts like, "$50 for a reissue is a waste of money." I am not interested in your opinion on the value of these records. I am hoping to get some good feeback from those who buy them so I can encourage Chad to take a look at it and consider our wants.
With that said let me list a few to get things started:
Anita O'Day - Pick Yourself Up with Anita O'Day
Anita O"Day - Waiter, Make Mine Blues
Anita O'Day - Anita Sings the Most
Anita O'Day - Trav'lin Light
Buddy Rich - Buddy Rich and Sweets Edison
Buddy Rich - Blues Caravan
Dizzy Gillespie - Birks Works (Verve Big Band Sessions)
Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie - Bird and Diz
Charlie Parker - South of the Border
Charlie Parker - Charlie Parker
Charlie Parker - Jazz at Massey Hall
Lester Young and Teddy Wilson - Pres and Teddy
Lester Young with the Oscar Peterson Trio
Lionel Hampton and Stan Getz - Hamp and Getz
Anything that Lionel Hampton recorded with the Oscar Peterson Trio
Stan Kenton - Portrait on Standards
Stan Kenton - Sketches on Standards
Stan Kenton - Cuban Fire!
Stan Kenton - Contemporary Concepts
Stan Kenton - Concepts of Artistry in Rhythm
Stan Kenton - Kenton's West Side Story
I'll add more to this list later.
--Jerome
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Here's a few more...
The Art Farmer & Benny Golson Jazztet - Meet the Jazztet
Ahmad Jamal - At the Pershing: But Not For Me
Ahmad Jamal - Portfolio
John Coltrane - Ascension
Jimmy Heath - Really Big!
Shelly Manne and His Friends - Modern Jazz Performances of Songs from My Fair Lady
Shelly Manne - Shelly Manne's "The Three" & "The Two"
Andre Previn Trio - King Size!
Andre Previn Trio - Like Previn!
Barney Kessel - Modern Jazz Performances from Bizet's Carmen
Barney Kessel - Let's Cook
Phineas Newborn Jr. - The Great Jazz Piano of Phineas Newborn Jr.
Hampton Hawes - Trio Volume 1
Hampton Hawes - Everybody Likes Hampton Hawes
I don't believe that Bud Powell's Blue Note recordings have been issued on 45RPM vinyl. If not they should be.
--Jerome
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Here's a few more...
Phineas Newborn Jr. - The Great Jazz Piano of Phineas Newborn Jr.
That's funny, I had never heard of him before and just yesterday picked up one of his CDs at the Crack House. It was an album called "Solo Piano" that was originally issued on Atlantic and reissued on CD by 32 Jazz. I have done really well with other 32 Jazz releases on both a musical and SQ basis, so I figured I would try this one base solely on my prior experience with the label.
I had not had a chance to listen to it before I saw Phineas had made Jerome's wish list, so I quickly threw it on. Can't tell you if it is as good as the particular album Jerome was talking about, but I can say I was not disappointed. It turned out to be a nice CD. :thumb:
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The CD you have is from an album recorded in 1972 as I recall. Phineas Newborn Jr. was in his prime from about 1957 through the late 1960s, though he did record a couple of notable comeback albums with Norman Granz on the Pablo label in the 1970s. His early work is where his brilliance is best heard. The record on my wish list is from 1962, issued on the Contemporary label. I consider it Phineas Newborn Jr.'s best album.
--Jerome
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Here's a few more that are getting very difficult to find in decent shape. I would love to see them on 45RPM 180g vinyl.
Max Roach - Jazz in 3/4 Time
Max Roach - Max Roach + 4
Max Roach - Max Roach + 4 on the Chicago Scene
--Jerome
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I want Motown.
charles
SMA
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I'm going to sound like a grouch when I say this, but I'll put my neck out there anyway.
First, I don't own any of the 45RPM reissues. I do own some of the 33RPM reissues though and I truly enjoy those I have.
However, second, I really have to want an album to pay the $35-40 price tag for a 180-200g 33RPM reissue. I really don't feel any necessity to shell out $50-100 for a 45RPM version of the same.
Third, I would find it far better to head to Infinity records in my town and pick up a stack of used vinyl for that $50-100 than just get one record.
I guess I don't feel that the difference between 33 and 45RPM versions warrants a doubling of the price, or the inconvenience of flipping the album every 10-12 minutes (OK, I'm getting old and lazy).
Just my perspective. For those who find these 45's a must have I can certainly understand your passion, I just don't share it.
Bob
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I just don't share it.
Then why post at all, Bob? I mean honestly, wasn't this clear and obvious enough to you?
"Also, I ask that people not clutter this thread with posts like, "$50 for a reissue is a waste of money." I am not interested in your opinion on the value of these records. I am hoping to get some good feedback from those who buy them so I can encourage Chad to take a look at it and consider our wants."
--Jerome
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Wes brought over some ORG 45's. They were simply stunning.
One record..Ella Swings Lightly at 45 was so good I just had to buy it.$60 is a lot for a record by anyone's standard, and now that I have a really good cartridge I just gotta hear it again...and again.
Bob is right as well but we do spend big bucks for cables and power cords so the money gets spent anyway. :duh
And the diffrerence between speeds is not huge but it is there, lots of layers and space and air, the stage gets less compressed and deepens and instruments focus closer to their real positions. Is this important to you? I quess it would have to be reserved for those special records you just love.
But I wish it was all recorded at 45!
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I just don't share it.
Then why post at all, Bob?
(http://thatcrazytattooedbaldbroad.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/horshack.jpg)
ooh! ooh! I know! I know!! Oooooohhh ooooohhh!
Because it's a discussion forum?
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When a tiny shred of respect is too much to ask for...well I think it's time for me to go away for a while.
Later...
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I respect you, but it would be nice if you also respected me. I was just discussing 33 vs 45 and my opinion of such. Not trying to hijack your thread ... not trying to piss on your parade ... not looking for the kind of reaction I got from you.
Peace brother?
That said, I do love what I hear on 45's, but I wish there was a discounted used market for them. I guess if someone is shelling out that kind of money they're not going to let it out of their hands easily. Here's one that I would love to see done in 45RPM.
Pat Metheny - Secret Story
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Why 180g 45RPM LP's?... its true that you have to get off the couch to flip the records 2x more often than with a 33 1/3 LP and to really dial in the sound on 180-200g records most folks will have to adjust the VTA. Including the extra time for flipping, dusting, antistatic control and whatever else your vinyl ritual requires, playing a 45RPM can become quite the annoyance... until you start listening.
My first experience with a nice 45RPM album was joyous and bordered on the sublime. It was Horace Parlan's 'Speaking My Piece', one of the first Music Matters issues and the sound coming from the TT, I had never heard before - clean, detailed, well-paced and musical beyond anything that had been played on that TT - even the other standard weight 45PRM records in the stacks. I readjusted the arm to better suit 180g LPs and it sounded even better! Since then, I've been actively collecting 45RPM albums - I have a subscription to MM and I pick and choose the offerings from AA and others and I'm all the happier (and poorer) for it.
Now I'm not suggesting that everyone with a TT run out and buy up their favorite titles on 45RPM - it is expensive and there's definitely a PITA factor to it but if you have a nice TT setup, you really owe it to yourself to give it a listen at least once.
Back to the question...Why 180g 45RPM LPs? Well, why flip n' clean records when you can just insert a CD and press play?...Why not just download MP3 files directly to your network player and never leave the couch?...Why replace that perfectly functional zip cord with expensive speaker cables?...why upgrade caps, wires and tubes when the ones from the factory sound...'fine'?
It is all about the music and you can enjoy music coming from an AM radio and ear buds but most folks here want more - they want to get as close as possible to it and are willing to spend a lot of time, effort and money to get there. For me, 45RPM LPs just gets me a couple of steps closer.
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Jerome -
Is there a central listing of what IS on 45rpm/180g today?
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A discussion forum that needs to be respectful of any parameters the OP lays down as applicable to HIS thread.
I just don't share it.
Then why post at all, Bob?
(http://thatcrazytattooedbaldbroad.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/horshack.jpg)
ooh! ooh! I know! I know!! Oooooohhh ooooohhh!
Because it's a discussion forum?
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When a tiny shred of respect is too much to ask for...well I think it's time for me to go away for a while.
Later...
That's a bad attitude Jerome...you did this on AC....and now on AN.... [-X
Rich had the right answer...."...it's a discussion forum."
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That's a bad attitude Jerome...you did this on AC....and now on AN.... [-X
Get your facts straight. I left AC over a problem I was having with a moderator who was unfit for the job. I'm not the only one. Seems to me there are a lot of AN members who had problems over at AC. Do you really want to dredge that up over here? Bringing that up was bad form.
But you are right about one thing. I have left other forums too. Some I post to sparingly and others I am no longer active on. I tend to not take any crap because, quite honestly, I don't have to.
For anyone wondering why I reacted so strongly to Bob's post I will try to explain. The off topic post in this situation is an effective form of censorship. Here is how it works. I already knew when I started this thread that not many people are lining up to spend $50 for a audiophile LP. But I buy them, and I buy a lot of them (I have about $12,000 invested in them). So people who might be interested in building a library of 45 RPM LPs on AN might be very small...perhaps I'm the only one who even cares. On the other hand, there is a majority of people here who think that $50 for a record is a waste of money (funny that these are some of the same people who think that $20K for an amp is a good value). So I start a thread that will appeal to very few people, and knowing that I try to establish the scope of the discussion in the original post. Some one who thinks the records are waste money chimes in and now the topic has been surreptitiously changed to overpriced audiophile LPs. And I have seen this happen countless hundreds of times over the years on various forums. So the original topic is squelched and those who wanted to discuss it have been effectively silenced. Way more people have something to say about overpriced audiophile LPs. The censorship is usually unintentional but the effect is the same as censorship that's deliberate. Respecting the OP's wishes is important so that the few that might be interested in a topic can have a voice and an outlet to talk about what is important to them. If not enough people are interested then the topic will die rather than get derailed by people who think that their off-topic post is more interesting than what the thread starter had in mind.
Though it is really no one's business but my own, I was planning on taking a break from posting here and not leaving -- but maybe I should give that more thought. What I do know is that there are way too many stressful things going on in my life right now to enjoy posting here. It certainly wasn't fun to have one of the few threads that was of some personal importance to me run off the rails like this. It seems some of you won't let it go, and I won't let go. The dispute is probably more interesting to you than the actual subject matter the topic was intended to be about. Everyone likes a good fight, few seem interested in building a library of 45 RPM LPs.
If anyone has something to say to me then be a gentlemen and PM me. I'll answer you when I have time. If you want to take cheap shots at me publicly on the forum then I'll defend myself here and it can get as ugly as you want to make it.
This thread is effectively dead, and no good can come from a protracted spat between me and other members. It should probably be locked. But that's just my opinion.
Rich had the right answer...."...it's a discussion forum."
No he doesn't...Gene gets it when he said "It's a discussion forum that needs to be respectful of any parameters the OP lays down as applicable to HIS thread."
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It probably would be best if this thread were closed, or deleted.
This can only end in tears
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyhh5ySRsB1qae7w2o1_500.png)
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I have to agree with Jerome. I was ready for this to happen when I read his original post . No offense guys.
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Boys boys c'mon now. I own several 45 reissues. To my ears they are better than the 33 reissues. I will bring some to our Sept. AudioSyndrome meeting.
I agree that $50 may be steep but think how many times you will listen to it. I'd rather pay $50 for an LP than $150 to see a live performance for 2 hours.
Now can we be one happy family again :thumb:
charles
SMA
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No posts are deleted, nobody is asking anyone to modify their comments, so there is NO* censorship here, other than that proposed in the OP.
Nobody owns a thread, and there is only one set of rules that everyone must obey.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2860.0
*edited to add the word NO
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No posts are deleted, nobody is asking anyone to modify their comments, so there is censorship here, other than that proposed in the OP
Correction. I never said that people could not express opinions that audiophile LPs were a waste of money. I only asked that they not put them here in this thread. People were certainly welcome to start a thread about the value of audiophile LPs and there would not have a been a problem. I might have even enjoyed such a debate.
I never had the impression that I "owned" this or any other thread. I believe that as a general guideline people should try to keep their posts on topic out courtesy to the person who started the thread and to others who might be interested in the topic. I thought I was pretty clear about what the topic was. If you are suggesting that this doesn't matter then I don't know what to say. I guess anything goes. Does that mean that just because I think a lot of expensive gear is a waste of money that I should come to the equipment threads and try to run those topics off the tracks? I don't post there because my comments would not contribute anything meaningful or positive to those topics.
Censorship is not asking people to exercise a little discretion or restraint, or start another topic. But derailing a thread, one that seems to be important to only a few, is a form of censorship and you can't explain it away or dress it up as something else.
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Here's a few more...
Phineas Newborn Jr. - The Great Jazz Piano of Phineas Newborn Jr.
That's funny, I had never heard of him before and just yesterday picked up one of his CDs at the Crack House. It was an album called "Solo Piano" that was originally issued on Atlantic and reissued on CD by 32 Jazz. I have done really well with other 32 Jazz releases on both a musical and SQ basis, so I figured I would try this one base solely on my prior experience with the label.
I had not had a chance to listen to it before I saw Phineas had made Jerome's wish list, so I quickly threw it on. Can't tell you if it is as good as the particular album Jerome was talking about, but I can say I was not disappointed. It turned out to be a nice CD. :thumb:
...and now back to the thread (for something completely different)...
Phineas Newborn - Please give me someone to Love! is my recommendation for a 45 release! I have it on 33 1/3 RPM (Japanese Import)
Hey tmazz - I'm almost sure you heard this LP at my house. He was a great jazz pianist with a unique style...
Enjoy the music & don't get caught up in the senseless BS (even though unintended!),
Pete :thumb:
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I only asked that they not put them here in this thread. People were certainly welcome to start a thread about the value of audiophile LPs and there would not have a been a problem. I might have even enjoyed such a debate.
I just went back and reread your original post and saw your request to not clutter the thread, etc. I guess I didn't read every word you wrote the first time through, since this part was buried in the middle somewhere. I got the gist of what you were saying and jumped immediately to your list to see what you were looking for.
I'm sorry I pulled this off topic for you.
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Thanks for manning up Bob. Now like Pete says lets get back to the thread. :thumb:
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No posts are deleted, nobody is asking anyone to modify their comments, so there is NO* censorship here, other than that proposed in the OP.
Nobody owns a thread, and there is only one set of rules that everyone must obey.
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2860.0
*edited to add the word NO
Richidoo - just re-read the rules! You are da best! I love this place. Thanks to you & others for making AN happen!
Gracias,
Pedro
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Jerome -
Is there a central listing of what IS on 45rpm/180g today?
None that I am aware of, no. Classic Records, Analogue Productions, and Music Matters has issued the majority of 45 RPM 180g LPs on the market. But Mobile Fidelity, Warner, and Rhino have also released a few each.
For Classic Records see...
http://www.classicrecords.com/search.cfm?code=45&order_by=
But this link is not a complete list. I have several Classic Records titles on 45 RPM that do not appear here, such as Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, Duke Ellington - Blues in Orbit, and Johnny Hodges and Duke Ellington - Side by Side. If there is a complete list of Classic Records 45s I don't know where to find it.
For Analogue Productions reissues on 45 RPM 180g vinyl see the following link. There you will find the Fantasy 45 series (100 titles, all of them released but many of them already sold out), the Blue Note Series (so far 50 titles either in release or scheduled for release), The Verve Series (25 titles slated for release but none available yet), and the Impulse! Series (25 titles, with about 18 of them in release and the rest scheduled for release).
http://analogueproductions.com/index.cfm?do=search&LabelID=4085
Analogue Productions has also released a couple of 45 RPM boxed sets, such as The Complete Bill Evans Riverside recordings ($599) and The Miles Davis Quintet: The Great Prestige Recordings ($300). They also offer a boxed set of Kilbreth's Wagner Ring cycle ($750).
For Music Matters see the following link. This is my favorite 45 reissue series and I have every single title released to date. A number of them are sold out.
http://www.musicmattersjazz.com/html/archive.html
There is also ORG (Original Recordings Group), which has a small catalog of 45 RPM 180g jazz and classical music titles. At $59.95 their titles are the most expensive of all of the 45 RPM reissue labels. I have generally been favorably impressed by their releases but a couple have disappointed me.
http://originalrecordingsgroup.com/htm/index2.htm
--Jerome
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Well, since my interest is BN, Verve and Impulse I guess I'll start with Analogue Prod.
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If Blue Note is your thing then be sure to check out Music Matters in addition to Analogue Productions. Music Matters titles come in heavy laminated gatefold jackets with B&W photos from the sessions on the inner gatefold.
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Just looking through those catalogues makes me crazy..I want them all!
I would love to see some Bach cantatas, maybe some Resphigi and some Richard Strauss on 45.
But the nature of these big works might make it difficult to press at 45. I would buy Also sprach Zarathustra at 45 but it would mean too many record changes because of the speed(I think?) Tone poems don't lend well to breaks in music.
The Cantatas could be done though!
We have a dearth of good Bach on vinyl it seems, unless Jerome has some inside info :thumb:
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Aja -Steely Dan
I don't see it on any of the sites Jerome linked to.