Author Topic: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.  (Read 29812 times)

Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 06:44:27 AM »
You're already happy with the Rotel's power so you may not need 500W>8ohms.

The reason I recommended 500W is because the power needed to play music loudly, like symphony finales and also dynamic spikes from flutes and bass drums, doubles for every additional 3dB of SPL. If you want to play symphonies with 105dB peaks to make you cry at the end, then a 300W>4ohm rated amp will be well into it's power bandwidth, and you will start to hear it strain because distortion rises very quickly as you approach the full power rating at 1% distortion. If the rating is bullshit, like only one channel or exaggerated then you will clip when you try to pull 105dB. This rule of doubling of power for every 3dB of SPL is for pure resistive load, which does not exist in a dynamic speaker, and so does not account for impedance dips, negative phase angle or compression from the speaker. A small 84db speaker will be very compressed at 105, which means you'll want even more volume to compensate. If the amp is only 200W>8ohms you will be near the rated max power when you get to the end of Shostakovich Symphony 5, and it will feel tight and anxious like the system is struggling. It is not an inspiring sound so you will turn it down and miss the punch line of the whole symphony.  You want to be able to turn it up! In addition to the power headroom, a more powerful amplifier has the additional benefit of sounding bigger and more confident even at low volume because the microdynamic contrast is increased because of the bigger power supply reserves that are audible at low levels.

Speakers with very low sensitivity are usually dynamically challenged compared to high sensitivity speakers when played at the same volume. They are often lower distortion, too, so that is the tradeoff. So the more powerful amplifier helps to loosen the speaker up with it's bigger current reserves stored in the power transformer's magnetic field and the power supplies larger smoothing cap bank. It can manhandle the lazy speaker to straighten up and fly right.  I like high sensitivity speakers for this reason. They operate at very low current most of the time, with no compression at all until over 100dB. So when the 105 peak comes, everything still sounds relaxed and smooth, and you hear the music, not the equipment. But there are very few high sensitivity AND low distortion speakers in the market.

McCormack and Classe are great recommendations for classical listener, as is Moscode. These are 3 of my favorite SS brands. But it will cost you more than $300 to get that level of power and refinement. Your speakers are certainly able to deliver all of that refinement to your ears. To get all the potential of your speakers, you need a high end amplifier, not a midfi amplifier because there is more to music playback than just volume level vs clipping. The Adcom is a midfi amp, so it will never be as refined even at low volume as a McCormack or Pass. Refinement is the tone quality that makes you notice how beautiful and realistic the music sounds beyond melody beat and words, that is what high end sound and audiophilism is all about. But an old Adcom will be reliable and makes the needed power if your are tolerant of the sound at high volumes.

Classical music is not compressed, so it will occasionally provide full scale signals when your volume control is turned way up to hear the quiet parts, like in Beethoven Symphonies. When the amp and speaker can handle it, it is a great feeling. When they can't, it's a knife stab. The alternative is adjusting the volume level during the song to accommodate the amp, or lowering the noise floor of your listening room to play at quieter volumes.   Since you are committed to the Vandys, I suggest that you invest in a high quality amplifier to get the most enjoyment from them.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 07:39:22 AM »
Hence my trepidation....  ;)

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 07:42:17 AM »
This is all quite reasonable, and it's a good thing I'm gonna have to do some horse trading in order to make any purchases over 1K. Gives me time to do the research I need to do in order to get sober.

A friend of mine has a McCormack amp he's thinking of selling, and he's always willing to let me try out his stuff in my system. Thanks for the headsup on that.

Theshold has been on my mind, too, of course. I once had a Threshold 5000 for a while but didn't like it much. It needed an overhaul which the folks at the company were willing to do themselves back then (mid 90s) but I have no idea what conglomerate has absorbed them by now or if they'd be willing to do that work still. Costly, too, as I recall. Also, those devils run hot, being Class A, I believe. NP has always done things up in Class A, still does at First Watt. Even so, if I move away from tubes altogether, which always happens during the summer and sometimes continues into the cooler months, I could well go with Threshold and use one of the various hopped up receivers I have around here when it's unbearable.

I'll check out your referrals and try to keep my head. Thanks again.

Brent

Offline rollo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 07:51:17 AM »
  I owned a Classe DR25 for quite some time driving Maggie 3As. Great amp. My favorite SS amp is Plinius. Any model. A bit more refined than the Classe. For classical music a winner. Not a dealer for Classe or Plinius.


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BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2011, 07:57:13 AM »
You're already happy with the Rotel's power so you may not need 500W>8ohms.

The reason I recommended 500W is because .... etc.

This is an extremely intelligent and well written post. I've tried Classe but didn't really like them, although the amp I tried was new and needed a burn in which I didn't know about then (or didn't believe!), and I'm willing to try them again. Haven't heard Moscode but I don't like hybrids, having tried Vincent and one other I kept for a while and sold. McCormack I have access to via loan out from a friend. He's been thinking of selling it for a while and is perfectly willing for me to home audition.

Also there is the option of staying with my Rotel, which I am fairly happy with, and get it upgraded for a smaller investment. I trust his work; he's done great things for me before.

Even so, the old jones gets hold of us sufferers and sometimes we just go with it!

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2011, 08:18:54 AM »

Threshold --a company owned by Pass-- S300.  Another 20+ year old amp, but bulletproof.Transparent an liquid. Incredibly fast. http://cgi.ebay.com/THRESHOLD-S-300-Stasis-300-Watt-Power-Amplier-Amp-EXC-/160615974236?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256575455c Buy it now for under $900.


Well, this looks good. A bit old but my DIY pal could probably do something if I don't like it. It's newer than the Threshold 5000 I had briefly, meaning mid- rather than early 80s. Even so, it's a bit of a bruiser and probably a wonderful heating system! However, it's nice to know I have options, and once again thanks for the encouragement to go on with the Great Quest for a bit before jumping right in.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2011, 09:17:39 AM »
"The Great Quest" indeed.  It's also known as "Audio Nervosa."  It plagues us all.

And just so you know, Richidoo is an intelligent and well written guy.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2011, 09:30:15 AM »
This is an extremely intelligent and well written post.

Why, thank you! :D    If I weren't so conservative I could be an audio journalist!  :rofl:

Moscode is to Vincent what gourmet food is before and after digestion.

Mods are tempting, but there's only so much that can be done, and usually the mods upset the original design. Power supply mods are usually worthwhile to try, but signal path mods require long term development to find musically significant improvement. If your guy knows Rotel and has done a bunch of them with happy customers, then certainly worth a try. But avoid the "parts upgrades" approach, because it's a musical instrument, not a hot rod.

For the actual money and time put into modding, you can usually buy a better sounding used commercial product with reputation, good reviews and good resale value. But mods and DIY are exciting because of the high risk/reward, and of course the fun of DIY.

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2011, 09:52:31 AM »
Righto, Richidoo! My DIY guy is mainly upgrading caps, nothing to do with wiring except the in and outputs, which are getting moribund. Coax OK but one balanced channel is gone. The balanced is only a problem when i want to use the matching Rotel RC-995, which I've moved in lately to see if I can stand all ss, using the coax inputs. Cool. No problem. I could live with this, too. Trouble with all ss is you're never satisfied. Why then don't I like hybrids. Well, could be because I was using Vincents with their awful Chinese tubes which can only be replaced with Chinese tubes. But I also had a fairly well regarded integrated ... must look that up, I'm old and forgetful, etc.

BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2011, 11:07:10 AM »
Right, so you take out the Conrad Johnson and right away there is that solid state hardness. Going to put it back at once! Cool day, anyways.

Is it true that Vandersteens are not tube friendly? I mean, they WERE, it seems, until I heard more sensitive speakers (Klipsch Fortes, the home made open baffles, which have ruined me for life!). Some fanatic over on Audioasylum works only with ss and equalizers who, when I mentioned my various tube adventures, told me to sell it all and, as you'd expect, buy his equalizer. He said things like, "You can get stereo with one speaker." I'M SURE HE SAID THAT.  He was talking so fast and for so long that I may be mistaken. You get the point.

I mean, I do find that the Vandersteen's are perfectly wonderful with the coloration provided by the C/J.

My thinking now -- such as remains to this machine -- goes in the direction of staying with the Rotel until I find a NEW amp that suits me, meaning I go ahead with the cap upgrades, don't bother, I'm happy ... OR ... oh, I don't know, forget the whole thing and listen to downloads comfortably through headphones up in the one air conditioned room in the house. Oh, but then you need a headphone amp. Have one, have one. Two. Three. Best is the little Hifiman (one of his first before he went big time with AA distribution), a USB DAC which gives just enough body to my MacBook that I'm cool. I'd just rather have it outside my head.

So. I'll listn to the McCormack, skip the Adcom, live with the Rotel (maybe have it modded) C/J, Vandersteens, et. Maybe I'll just jump in front of a falling Focal. Nervosa, indeed!

Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2011, 12:18:39 PM »
The CJ is hiding the flaws of the amp. The combined distortion loses resolution, which is the reason to own high end audio equipment. Get a better amp and soon you will crave less gravy from CJ, while your immersion in the music deepens and you have more listening satisfaction overall. Strong euphonic distortion like CJ is addictive, so you will have to come off the stoner before you can appreciate what the speakers with low distortion amp can do. You may prefer to remain a tube junkie, which is perfectly acceptable. We have a special tube ward for patients like that. ;)  The 2ce can be powered by a tube amp very well due to it's easy impedance curve. But it will still need the watts to be able to play loudly, 100W min. With a tube amp the CJ will be too much.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2011, 12:27:47 PM »
  If I weren't so conservative I could be an audio journalist!  :rofl:


I dunno Rich.  Conservatism and audio journalism are not mutually exclusive.

http://csis.org/expert/anthony-h-cordesman

Offline allenzachary

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2011, 12:30:23 PM »
..and Brent, please give a good listen to that McCormack.  It is delightful.


BrentoRudra

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2011, 12:52:16 PM »
Well, the best tube amp I've had powering the Vandersteens was a Sonic Frontiers Power 1, which sounded great until it blew up. (Never mind that story, it embarrasses me!) I am from time to time a tube head. It is only during the summer that I go solid state. Even so, as I say, it gets to be interesting.

I have a group of audio pals that meet from to time in our various houses when our wives are away or workng or otherwise occupied. They like my place best because of the high ceilings. EVRYTHING sounds better here. Or worse, depending on whether the member has a man cave, living room space or, in my case, a frikkin cathedral. I remember bringing home one of the chaps' singled driver monitors which of course sounded wonderful in his man cave and got lost in space here.

More to the point, I've come round to seeing (hearing) that for what I listent to I am losing something with tubes, for all their magic. Live concerts I go to do not sound euphonisious or even as good as a fine tube amp duplicating the same performance!

A certain livliness happens with solid state that you don't get with tubes unless you are listening to Patricia Barber and a piano or Miles Davis and his classic quintet or the Bill Evans Trio of the late 50s and early 60s.

 

Offline richidoo

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Re: Adcom GFA-555, 545, etc.
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2011, 01:16:01 PM »
I dunno Rich.  Conservatism and audio journalism are not mutually exclusive.

http://csis.org/expert/anthony-h-cordesman

That's cool! I didn't know that. But he likes Bryston so only half points. There are conservatives hiding all through the entertainment biz.

I am on the fence now about tubes. I listen to a beautiful sounding SS amp designed by Sol Samet almost all the time, and I feel no desire to run the tubes. But I'm hoping I can enjoy them more with the new speakers. If the SS still sounds better, or one of his latest versions I'll sell them and be done with power tubes for a while. Sol's amp sound better than 300B tubes? Heresy! depends if you want cool ice grapefruit juice on a hot day, or Colombian coffee with bailey's amaretto and kahlua beside the fire. Depends whether it's Anita O'Day Quartet or Beethoven symphony. That's why I have both. Snappers can do both well, but I sold mine for want of quality tubes. I may just buy another pair.