AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: StereoNut on September 03, 2010, 11:40:57 AM
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I'm looking for either a low-budget $ amp (new/used/demo) to pair up with an old Parasound P/HP-850 pre-amp I have for a second (small 9 x 11ft. bedroom/office) system or an inexpensive integrated amp (new/used/demo) to use in that same application and maybe then I'll try to sell off the Parasound pre-amp, if that makes more sense...???
I'd be pairing these (my Parasound Pre and an amp or an integrated) up with a Cambridge D-500SE CD player and a pair of NHT Super One speakers. We're barely talking mid-fi here fellas, so I'm talking ridiculously "on the cheap", like $300.00 or less. (Maybe a few bucks more?)
I was thinking like Cambridge Audio, NAD or maybe Rotel, but I don't know what else may be worthwhile checking out. I also thought about those little Virtue Audio amps...???
First, do I keep my Pre and go separates or take the integrated route... and then, after deciding that; what products do you suggest I look at?
Be creative, I'm open to suggestions!
Thanks!
SN
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Here's the speaker specs, from the manual:
SuperOne Specifications
· System Type: 2-way, acoustic suspension design
· Driver Complement: 6.5” long-throw woofer, 1” fluid-cooled soft dome tweeter, video shielded drivers
· Crossover: 2.2KHz, 6dB/octave high-pass and 12dB/octave low-pass
· Response: 57Hz - 25KHz, +/- 3dB
· Sensitivity: 86db (2.83V at 1M)
· Impedance: 8 ohms nominal, 6 ohms minimum
· Recommended Amplifier Power: 25W/ch minimum, 150W/ch maximum
· Inputs: 5-way binding posts
· Weight: 10 lbs. each
· Dimensions: 11.65"H x 7.25"W x 8.5"D
· Finish: High-gloss black or white laminate
Seems like you have the makings of quite a nice little rig there. All you need is a 50W amp.
There are a lot of amps in your budget, like audiosource AMP-100 ($150 new). http://www.audiosource.net/amp.php I have an Audiosource 80W linear amp, it sounds pretty good. They have class D models now too. These are not high end tho... They sound confident but not very resolving. There's a bunch of amps listed at Partsexpress (http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=756&CFID=30306169&CFTOKEN=64185866). Note the 15W T amps for $50, might be worth a try, some people say they are quite good for the money. They are a class D amp on a chip made by Tripath, and the basis for some great high end amps from Red Wine, 47 Lab and others.
Don't forget Craigs List. you might find a decent receiver or stand alone amp for peanuts.
Rich
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Keep the preamp and get this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1288189591&/Arcam-Alpha-8P
Or, sell the preamp and get this old school gem
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1288293588&/Luxman-L-510
Bryan
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I like the cheap Onkyo 2-channel receivers but they have 0 cool factor... but sound pretty good.. just a thought.
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This Onkyo always had great reviews
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1288400889&/Onkyo-A-9555-Black--excellent- (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatran&1288400889&/Onkyo-A-9555-Black--excellent-)
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Thanks for the replies! This is why AN is such a great place.
• Rich: I never even heard of Audiosource before (sheltered childhood, I guess!?) so there's an option I never would've found myself. As far as Parts Express goes, I always thought of them as a source for the D.I.Y. crowd, so again another idea! (P.S. - Thanks for the kudos on this having the possibilities of becoming a decent little rig.) I really like the NHT's... they make a lotta music for a bookshelf speaker.
• Bryan: Thanks for the links. I haven't heard any Adcom stuff in a very long time, but remember it being a bit "boomy" on the bottom end, so I'm not sure. The Luxman is an interesting piece, but I'm concerned about reliability with it. FWIW - I have a 35 year old Sansui 9090DB receiver in with my local repair guy to check on why the left channel went out on it a month ago when I used it last in my "drag it out when I have a backyard BBQ" system. If I was gonna go the Luxman route, I may be better off just fixing and using the Sansui I already have. (Yes, I know what you're thinking and I agree... I'm sure the Luxman is a better piece than my old 9090DB.)
• Carl/Evan: Thanks for the suggestion, but like my reply on the Luxman above, I'd probably just stay with the Sansui once I hear back from my techie and it makes sense to repair it.
I will start to check on some of these ideas when I have some more time. In the meanwhile, fellow Nervosians - keep those "cards and letters" rolling in!
Enjoy the holiday weekend! :-)
Thanks!
SN
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- Definitely stick with the Sansui if it can be fixed. Probably an electrolytic cap or something related. They go bad with age. Sansui is well built and easy to fix.
- I like your dots SN!
:D
BTW, Here's the manual: http://www.hifiengine.com/manuals/sansui/9090db.shtml
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Thanks, Rich!
I will forward the manual to my techie.
As far as the "dots" go, that's just me with my overly organized, OCD brain! If I'm going from the front room in the house to the back and I see something (a quick task) that can be done in each of the two other rooms in between, I'll stop and do them along the way. It's just my nature. I drive my wife and kids crazy like that. :-)
SN
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- I'm just glad someone finally used that button..
- Wives and kids deserve to be driven crazy.
- :rofl:
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- Wives and kids deserve to be driven crazy.
Lord knows they return the favor all too often! ;-)
SN
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• Bryan: Thanks for the links. I haven't heard any Adcom stuff in a very long time, but remember it being a bit "boomy" on the bottom end, so I'm not sure.
Keep the preamp and get this:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1288189591&/Arcam-Alpha-8P
Bryan
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My bad! Obviously, my brain read "Adcom", not "Arcam". - Duh! :duh
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No problem. The 9090 is worth some pretty serious cash if it's been redone properly and is in good shape. Nice piece but not something I'd want to use in an every day system due more to value
The Lux stuff of that vintage was very well made and pretty much bullet proof. My cousin still has that exact piece I linked to. Bought it new. Has had fuses replaced every 5 years just on principle and about 5 years ago, was recapped. Nothing really wrong at the time, just getting to the point where being preventative was a good thing.
The thought with it was that for an office system, you'd very rarely really use a ton of power and that piece has the first 8W in class A.
The Arcam is a very basic little integrated. Sins are those of omission rather than commission if you know what I mean.
Have fun in the hunt...
Bryan
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To all:
If I decide to go the Pre & Power Amp route and keep my Parasound P/HP-850, what do you guys think of a B&K ST-140... all brawn, no beauty?
Thanks!
SN
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Don't rule out NAD or Rotel. Saying that if the speakers are efficient check out Vista, A simple solution is to get powered speakers like Audio Engine and sell the Pre and speakers. These little gems sound great. Several guys in our club bought them.
Then you can sell the Cambridge and get a USB DAC and be done at the office. Less space inexpensive enough.
charles
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I like the cheap Onkyo 2-channel receivers but they have 0 cool factor... but sound pretty good.. just a thought.
And if the FM section is of any importance to you, Onkyo units nave long been known for good tuner performance....
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Don't rule out NAD or Rotel. Saying that if the speakers are efficient check out Vista, A simple solution is to get powered speakers like Audio Engine and sell the Pre and speakers. These little gems sound great. Several guys in our club bought them. Then you can sell the Cambridge and get a USB DAC and be done at the office. Less space inexpensive enough.
charles
I haven't ruled anything out completely yet. NAD & Rotel are definite considerations. I will check out Vista next. (Thanks for the suggestion.) It's for a home-office/bedroom set-up, but I don't think I'm ready to go the computer front end route just yet. (BTW - I've heard the Audio Engine speakers and they are gems.) Right now (although if you give me 10 minutes, I'll change my mind!) I'm kinda leaning towards finding a power amp and keep the Parasound Pre.
FWIW - According to the specs Rich posted, my NHT's aren't very efficient (86db)
Keep sending in suggestions, maybe something will finally make up my mind! ;-)
SN
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In a bedroom system where you won't play it loudly, even 86dB speakers will sound fine with ~50W. It's 6 ohms minimum, so any decent amp will work. I doubt you would go past 10W very often. That's why that Lux in class A is so tempting. But it will be very warm. Think of that if you need to stack things.
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Anybody ever heard of a Hafler TA-1600 ???
http://www.hafler.com/products/hafler_products_details.asp?productID=3278&viewId=1
SN
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What about a Creek integrated?
I can hook you up for cheap! :D
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That's a derivitive of the old Acoustat Trans Nova Twin amplifier but modded for industrial use. The TNT wasn't a bad sounding amp. Nothing special but built like a tank. GREAT bass amp even though it was MOSFET. Hafler bought out Acoustat and let the speakers die but kept using the amp designs.
http://www.audiocircuit.com/Home-Audio/Acoustat/TNT-200
There was also a TNT120 IIRC.
Bryan
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Haven't found much info, but Peachtree Audio is introducing a "musicbox" (a mini version of the iDecco) meant for desktops. Looks interesting as it uses a "baby SABRE" DAC, tube pre-amp, and allows for multiple inputs. If it has pre-amp outputs (maybe even subwoofer outputs like the iDecco) it could also be the basis for a nice stepping stone for a budding audiophile.
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Haven't found much info, but Peachtree Audio is introducing a "musicbox" (a mini version of the iDecco) meant for desktops.
I have some promo material on the Music Box. I tried to attach it here but it wont let me as the file is too big.
For anybody who wants to peek at it, you can get it via the link below.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RDGABJXT (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RDGABJXT)
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Haven't found much info, but Peachtree Audio is introducing a "musicbox" (a mini version of the iDecco) meant for desktops.
I have some promo material on the Music Box. I tried to attach it here but it wont let me as the file is too big.
For anybody who wants to peek at it, you can get it via the link below.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RDGABJXT (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RDGABJXT)
What am I looking at or for ?
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I found this
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Peachtree-Audio/159840707959#! (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Peachtree-Audio/159840707959#!)
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Just got a catalog in the mail from MusicDirect.
How about this:
Music Hall a25.2 Integrated amp
50 wpc into 8 Ohms (100 into 4)
Line Stage only (no phono) :(
Stereophile Recommended Component and The Absolute Sound Editor's Choice Award Winner
Regularly $699, now 50% off - $350
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/88057
I've never heard it myself, but it comes with a good pedigree and a 100% Money Back Guarantee. :thumb:
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What am I looking at or for ?
It's some online storage that I use from time to time. Just follow the prompts to get the pdf. Don't worry, its safe. :D
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I've got an ATI AT-1502 you can test-drive if you like...I don't live very far from you.
http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm (http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm)
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Haven't found much info, but Peachtree Audio is introducing a "musicbox" (a mini version of the iDecco) meant for desktops. Looks interesting as it uses a "baby SABRE" DAC, tube pre-amp, and allows for multiple inputs. If it has pre-amp outputs (maybe even subwoofer outputs like the iDecco) it could also be the basis for a nice stepping stone for a budding audiophile.
Thanks, JLM - but I can see that including "office" my subject line has mislead you a bit. Yes, the system is for a home office, but I am not looking for a computer based audio system.
SN
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I've got an ATI AT-1502 you can test-drive if you like...I don't live very far from you.
http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm (http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm)
Hi Regg
Thanks for the offer. I may take advantage of that somewhere down the line? Do you know what the pricing on the ATI AT-1502 is? When I went to the link you posted, it wasn't listed on the price list. Is the AT-1502 a discontinued model?
SN
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If you can swing the Creek from Black Sand it would be tough to beat. The Cambridge gear is quite good but no Creek.
charles
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If you can swing the Creek from Black Sand it would be tough to beat. The Cambridge gear is quite good but no Creek.
charles
I gave him some info on Creek but even though I dropped my pants to the extreme when it came to price :shock: :shock:, it was still a little more than he wants to spend on this system. He wants to keep it very simple and very cheap.
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I've got an ATI AT-1502 you can test-drive if you like...I don't live very far from you.
http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm (http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502brochure.htm)
Hi Regg
Thanks for the offer. I may take advantage of that somewhere down the line? Do you know what the pricing on the ATI AT-1502 is? When I went to the link you posted, it wasn't listed on the price list. Is the AT-1502 a discontinued model?
SN
The AT1502 model is no longer in production was replaced by the AT1802, as indicated below...
http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502.htm (http://www.wwsp.com/ati/at1502.htm)
I was looking to get right around the price mentioned in your OP. You are welcome to borrow the amp to see if it floats your boat. It drove my 4 ohm floorstanders with plenty of authority and power to spare.
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To all:
If I decide to go the Pre & Power Amp route and keep my Parasound P/HP-850, what do you guys think of a B&K ST-140... all brawn, no beauty?
Thanks!
SN
I whole heartedly recommend that amp for any purpose, office or nice home system on a budget. It is one of the best all around values I've found. The ST-202 is better but for an office system, it will make no difference. My friend Allen turned me on to B&K amps when I first got started in this hobby. I had no reason to sell the amp other than to fund new toys.. one of the ones I wish I'd kept.
I know nothing about Parasound preamps, though. I'd go for a tubed pre and get the ultimate compliment out of that system. If you can find a tubed pre that's easy on tubes, you should be good to go with a system that would easily transfer from the office to a nice 2nd system... If you don't need a remote, a used EE Minimax would certainly look cool and provide the right mix of tubey goodness and SS balls.
edit.. just noticed you already have the Parasound pre. Get the B&K and you won't be dissapointed.
-C
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To all:
If I decide to go the Pre & Power Amp route and keep my Parasound P/HP-850, what do you guys think of a B&K ST-140... all brawn, no beauty?
Thanks!
SN
I whole heartedly recommend that amp for any purpose, office or nice home system on a budget. It is one of the best all around values I've found.
If you thought the ST-140 was a good deal before, have you seen the recent listings on A'gon? The are regularly selling for under $200 and sometimes even under $150!!! :shock: :shock:
An amp like that for $150? You'd almost have to go to confession for stealing after closing a deal like that. :roll:
At that price it might even be worth picking one up as a turnaround piece in case one of your amps ever gets sold or sent out for repairs and/or upgrades.......... :-k
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An amp like that for $150? You'd almost have to go to confession for stealing after closing a deal like that. :roll:
"Bless me Father, for I have sinned..." :shock:
Well... after much deliberation and shallow pockets, I have finally made up my mind. I am going with a very clean looking B&K ST-140 from A'gon. I'm really not sure if it's a 1st., 2nd. or 3rd. generation ST-140, but from descriptions I've read, it's not a 4th. generation version because it doesn't have blue lettering. If anybody can tell me more from the pix. please let me know.
(http://pic5.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1283464451.jpg)
(http://pic5.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1283464452.jpg)
Thanks!
SN
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Big heat sinks, always a good sign of a good amount of class A operation. By the size of the sinks could be a few watts of class A, so you will be listening in class A most of the time in a bedroom. :thumb: Congrats on your new amp! Looking forward to hearing how you like it.
Rich
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Thanks, Rich... and to all that contributed ideas on this thread :thumb:
I guess I better get that room cleaned out now! :D
The comments/suggestions here on AN, along with reviews of the ST-140 that I was able to find on-line and of course, my limited funds to work with were all contributing factors in my decision; but what finally "put me over the edge" was a phone call to the local techie that a lot of the guys around here use. Scott @ S.G. Custom Sound (http://www.sgcustomsound.com/ (http://www.sgcustomsound.com/)) said that the vintage B&K stuff (especially an ST-140 like this) is not only really nice sounding equipment, but it's also "built like a tank". He said that even if there's anything that needs to be re-done/re-furbed on it, they were (are) easy amps to work on. It's also nice to know that B&K is still in business in upstate (Buffalo) NY for support (http://www.bkcomp.com/ (http://www.bkcomp.com/)) although I don't know about the availability of parts for a 20+ year old amp...??? Hopefully, I won't be in need of parts or service any time soon.
I will keep you posted once it arrives and I get to listen to it.
SN
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How about a compact tubed integrated amp (20 wpc at 8 ohms with headphone output, gold plated connectors, and detactable power cord) for $199?
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_a1
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How about a compact tubed integrated amp (20 wpc at 8 ohms with headphone output, gold plated connectors, and detactable power cord) for $199?
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tube_magic_a1
Wow! I wish I'd knew this piece existed before I bought the B&K ST-140. Looks (sounds?) like a really neat compact integrated that certainly would've taken up a lot less space than what I'm putting together now. I will file this for future reference. Maybe, this will be the next addition to my house? To paraphrase President Hoover "...a stereo system in every room." :-)
SN
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FWIW... there are some discussions on the Maverick in the "Cheap & Cheerful" circle on AC...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78467.0
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=85615.0
Dave