AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Digital Audio Devices => Topic started by: rollo on November 03, 2019, 09:15:15 AM
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I only use router to stream music to my server. I'm hearing that routers matter as well as Ethernet from router to streamer. Clueless on what to look for in a router. I have a FIOS supplied router. Length of Ethernet needs to be 12ft. Reason just got TIDAL to stream radio/Albums.
Whats up with Ethernet switches after router to streamer like SOtM switch.
charles
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The short answer is they do not make any difference, keep using what you have.
Personal I feel that this is a terrible scam on audiophiles who do not have a real understanding on how routers/switches and networking work in general (which is most people). There is nothing in the digital realm that makes any difference in sound quality, the only time it does make a difference is when you are converting it to an analog signal, before that time there is nothing that is going to change the sound for better or worse. Routers and switches only operate in the digital realm.
Routers and switches are always transmitting a bit perfect packet to your device. It's in the spec, packetized transmission, CRC checks, re-transmits all are there to guarantee the file arrives exactly as is was sent. I have done lots of packet sniffing at my work, and dropped packets are almost unheard off in corporate (very crowded) networks. unless there is break along the way. On a home network, from looking at my own network, it never happens. I have over 65 devices on my home network, so it's pretty crowded, and I have never seen a droppe3d packet in over 15 years that I have had the ability to monitor this.
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Joe, logically and on paper I can't really disagree with what you are saying, but if that is completely true the same logic should also extend to digital cables and I have to tell you, Helen Keller could hear the difference between the cable I was using TWL USB cable I recently replaced it with.
I can't tell you how or why they would be different, but I just can't imagine that there no differences at all between different types of routers/switches or even different brands and models of the same type. It would be great if we could point to some kind of cause and effect that would enable us to predict what would sound different and in what way. I certainly can't at this point, but I also don't doubt that trial and error substitution would reveal some differences.
I am certainly not advocating that we should go out and by a dozen routers to search for the "golden" one, just saying that in my 30+ years in this hobby I have seen numerous things that changed the sound for no obvious or even logical reason. So I am very hesitant to say that any device can not or will not make any change in the sound.
That said I also will not stand up and say that by design one device or type of device will yield better results. If there is a change you will most likely have to trip over it by happenstance. Logically it shouldn't make a difference, but I am sure that somewhere down the line a situation will come up where it does.
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Ethernet is very different than USB transmission, like completely different. But I understand what you are saying, I would just say it is one of those things I would very strongly recommend getting a loaner to really try it and compare, because if you are not obligated to buy it I don't think you will hear any difference.
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I only use router to stream music to my server. I'm hearing that routers matter as well as Ethernet from router to streamer. Clueless on what to look for in a router. I have a FIOS supplied router. Length of Ethernet needs to be 12ft. Reason just got TIDAL to stream radio/Albums.
Whats up with Ethernet switches after router to streamer like SOtM switch.
charles
Funny how things come in threes. This is going to be the third time I have recommended an iFi wall wart supply in 2days. If your router has a wall wart (most do) get an iFi supply:
https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipower/
It's all about noise again. Other than that I can't think of any reason to worry. Streaming is only streaming. I am not convinced that the SQ will ever equal that of a local file.
Switches? Not in my system. Just another component to muck up SQ. Simpler is better.
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hmm, it should sound exactly the same. In my setup there is no difference between playing a local file or streaming it through my network.
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Just noticed this (https://www.monoandstereo.com/2019/11/new-fidelizer-audio-etherstream.html)
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Charles
I would run straight from the router you have from Fios if it is working like it should and update the power if you can. Other than that if you want to upgrade the ethernet cable either a certified cable from BJC or I use the Supra Ethernet cables from Sweden.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-ETHERNET-cable-5-meter-Made-In-Sweden-THE-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDIO/401935215073?hash=item5d9534a9e1:g:7OwAAOSwmmxW1lMz
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hmm, it should sound exactly the same. In my setup there is no difference between playing a local file or streaming it through my network.
It can’t. Your statement assumes that all of the attendant devices are perfect. Every component in a system has a distortion/ noise component. Johnson noise, shot noise less than perfect CMRR, gate delays, DA, DF, et al, all add up to changing the quality of the transmitted signals. There ain’t no free lunch.
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hmm, it should sound exactly the same. In my setup there is no difference between playing a local file or streaming it through my network.
It can’t. Your statement assumes that all of the attendant devices are perfect. Every component in a system has a distortion/ noise component. Johnson noise, shot noise less than perfect CMRR, gate delays, DA, DF, et al, all add up to changing the quality of the transmitted signals. There ain’t no free lunch.
but none of that is true at all, until it is translated to an analog signal there is no difference at all between the two files ever. The only reason it sounds different is if a poorly made DAC is used that introduces noise into the analog domain. Unfortunately this is pretty common with high end DACs as they are very good at designing circuits but not very good at working with computers, so most of their output stage is plagued by high levels of distortion.
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OK. Installed a LPS for router. To my surprise the FIOS wall wart is a LPS. The new LPS is 5A not 1.8A [ FIOS]. The new LPS has an IEC so a TWL HC PC was installed. An improvement. But still hear some noise. Noise as in grain. Had a iFi wall wart lying around and installed that. Now we are talking. More clarity and better tonality. I'm stopping there.
As far as Ethernet. Tried Supra and it is bright, Wireworld very bright, Tried Mono Price which is warm, now using a TWL Ethernet so far so good just installed yesterday. Right off the bat better than ALL previous contenders. After 200 hours I will report back.
charles
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OK. Installed a LPS for router. To my surprise the FIOS wall wart is a LPS. The new LPS is 5A not 1.8A [ FIOS]. The new LPS has an IEC so a TWL HC PC was installed. An improvement. But still hear some noise. Noise as in grain. Had a iFi wall wart lying around and installed that. Now we are talking. More clarity and better tonality. I'm stopping there.
As far as Ethernet. Tried Supra and it is bright, Wireworld very bright, Tried Mono Price which is warm, now using a TWL Ethernet so far so good just installed yesterday. Right off the bat better than ALL previous contenders. After 200 hours I will report back.
charles
It is interesting to me that almost everyone I talk to or hear talking about cabling has the same opinion on Wireworld cables. I have found them to be overly bright in every application that i have tried them in or listen to that had them. Makes me wonder what they use for gear in their listening lab. I have recommended WW for dead, dark systems and the owners generally liked them. There is a market for just about everything under the sun. Just gotta find that application.
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Well better than better now. Plugged Ethernet cable into different jack in router. Installed a Mono Price Ethernet [ 12ft so nothing exotic] to server. Server using iFi wall wart. Then TWL USB to DAC.
Out of curiosity I placed my hand on router and felt some resonance. Time to try dampening of router.
charles
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OK. 200 hours on it all. To my ears if you use a router buy the iFi wall wart. Also improving cable to CAT 8 from router to server improved sound as well.
I tell ya what. Every Ethernet cable from my dedicated transport to DAC used has a different sonic signature. For router which surprised me same just to lessor degree. Now I'm reading about optical Ethernet connection and my head is spinning. We ain't done yet.
charles
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Routers make a difference. After serious hours I can not believe the difference in sound and picture. The Gigawatt PC is helping big time as well.
charles