Author Topic: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers  (Read 4602 times)

Offline P.I.

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2021, 09:51:07 AM »
Dave,

In addition to Toms question, where can I buy a small quantity of the naphtha or 93% isopropyl? Ive used 70% ethyl alcohol for years for miscellaneous uses around the house/garage and have found its cleaner..meaning it leaves less discernible residue to the touch. Any thoughts on the ethyl alcohol?

Nick
Ethyl alcohol is just fine.  It is an excellent cleaner.

93% isopropyl is available at drug stores like Walgreens or CVS.  Naphtha can be found in the paint departments at big box stores.  They are residueless, too.
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2021, 06:13:28 PM »
Dave will this do the trick?



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Varnish-Maker-and-Painter-s-Naphtha-QVM46/100122813#overlay

91% Isopropyl is very easy to get around here but I have yet t find a CVS or other type store that carries 93%. Do you think 91 is close enough?

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Offline P.I.

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2021, 08:45:32 PM »
Dave will this do the trick?



https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-qt-Varnish-Maker-and-Painter-s-Naphtha-QVM46/100122813#overlay

91% Isopropyl is very easy to get around here but I have yet t find a CVS or other type store that carries 93%. Do you think 91 is close enough?
Yep, that 's the stuff.

I think I pulled 93% out of my butt.  I meant 91%  :lol:
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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2021, 03:11:08 PM »
I just attempted to resolder the cathode, grid, screen, plate pins of my output tubes. Seems to have made some
sonic differences. YMMV as mine is under "lab" conditons.

But I cannot help but wonder if part of the NEW vs NOS output tube difference, besides harmonic distortion
differences, might be the quality of solder used to connect the socket pins.

Wonder if I should start a new string as I have never heard of this subject being posted before.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 09:54:56 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2022, 12:42:15 PM »
Hello folks. I'm just resurrecting an old post, well just because I adamantly disagree with *all* those who've posted in this thread that (paraphrasing) finger tightening speaker wire at the amp and speaker sides just don't cut it.

Sorry, but nooooo.

Finger tight, using a glove (or cloth) which provides dexterity and the ability to tighten *a quarter turn* more than you otherwise could with bare fingers is more than enough.

Those of you using any kind of tool and tightening more than a quarter turn than you otherwise could with your bare hands are "overzealous" and in fact risk doing more harm than good.

Of course, it's your gear, so by all means do whatever you want.

Happy holiday's.

Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2022, 03:45:25 PM »
Hello folks. I'm just resurrecting an old post, well just because I adamantly disagree with *all* those who've posted in this thread that (paraphrasing) finger tightening speaker wire at the amp and speaker sides just don't cut it.

Sorry, but nooooo.

Finger tight, using a glove (or cloth) which provides dexterity and the ability to tighten *a quarter turn* more than you otherwise could with bare fingers is more than enough.

Those of you using any kind of tool and tightening more than a quarter turn than you otherwise could with your bare hands are "overzealous" and in fact risk doing more harm than good.

Of course, it's your gear, so by all means do whatever you want.

Happy holiday's.

Best.

Hal

Well, unfortunately:

1. as one finger tightens the connector, the resistance decreases. Since each person has different finger strength,
the nut will be tightened to different levels.

2. Beyond finger tightening, the copper is a type of material that compresses and is springy, thus lower connection resistance. The damping factor increases due to less total resistance between amplifier and speaker.

(One reason why copper house wiring is accepted while aluminum wiring is not is that aluminum does not
compress easily, it loosens, causing a fire hazzard.)

Due to factors such as masking, and the speakers damping Q, it is possible that one won't notice a
sonic difference. Of course there is always the problem with oxidation to consider as well with finger tight.

And occasionally, yes, lessening the contact area and lessening the damping factor might help the
under damped speaker to achieve critical damping for better bass/sound. But one will have to "finger torque"
the nut exactly the same each time.

In view of the above points, and being fairly rare, one is better off to use the correct size wire and
then torque tight for proper damping to achieve the proper speaker Q. Just don't break the jack.  :)

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: December 24, 2022, 04:11:30 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
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SAS Test Phono Stage
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2022, 04:05:03 PM »
Steve, I've had a lot of eggnog at the moment, so please bare with me.

You started this thread. In your first post, you wrote:

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

I mean, you can't be serious, can you?

I'll add that you do have some valid points regarding (paraphrasing) each individual has their own unique strength with which to tighten, and about increased/decreased resistance, which can effect damping factor.

So, ok.

Now, I take your posts (all of them collectively in this thread) to imply that *you personally can hear an audible difference* between a "tight", by fingers alone, and "tighter", with a tool, or any other means.

If I'm correct as to how I take (understand) your post, I say/write "bolderdash".

Best.

Hal
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2022, 04:22:15 PM »
Steve, I've had a lot of eggnog at the moment, so please bare with me.

You started this thread. In your first post, you wrote:

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

I mean, you can't be serious, can you?

I'll add that you do have some valid points regarding (paraphrasing) each individual has their own unique strength with which to tighten, and about increased/decreased resistance, which can effect damping factor.

So, ok.

Now, I take your posts (all of them collectively in this thread) to imply that *you personally can hear an audible difference* between a "tight", by fingers alone, and "tighter", with a tool, or any other means.

If I'm correct as to how I take (understand) your post, I say/write "bolderdash".

Best.

Hal

That is the difference between a system whose components use only poly capacitor power supply filters directly in the
signal path etc vs a system whose components use only electrolytic capacitor filters directly in the signal path.
That is just one difference.

An electrolytic capacitor has ~250 times the DA, ESL of a good poly capacitor. You are starting to learn how 
bad electrolytic capacitors are.

cheers

steve

 

 
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
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Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2022, 04:29:19 PM »
Steve, I think it's you who's had too much eggnog!!   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
GoldenEar Triton Reference (pair), Musical Fidelity M6si, Schiit Yggdrasil-OG-B, Oppo UDP-205, Emotiva ERC-3, LG OLED65C9PUA, Salamander Synergy Triple Unit SL20, Audeze LCD-X, GIK acoustic paneling
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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2022, 06:52:37 PM »
Steve, I think it's you who's had too much eggnog!!   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Elementary dear Watson, elementary.

Actually I don't like eggnog. But a glass of wine does sound good. :)

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: December 24, 2022, 07:39:05 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
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SAS Test Phono Stage
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2022, 08:05:34 PM »
Steve, you've intentionally derailed the thread topic. This isn't about capacitors.

Besides, without some sort of before-and-after measurements or at least a properly controlled ABX comparison, there's no way to gauge the effectiveness of any capacitor modification.

Capacitors will have zero, as is none whatsoever, relevance to whether or not one correctly finger tightens their wires to binding posts or correctly, but not recommended do to significant risk of damage, uses a tool or anything capable of applying more torque (and I went even further the state a quarter turn, therefore 25% or more torque) than adequate finger tightening.

The addition or absence of correct wire to binding post torque is not related to capacitors.

What type of wine do you prefer? Red, white, Malbec, Pinot Noir, something else? If you use to much force getting the cork out (presumably with a corkscrew) the cork breaks apart and splinters into the wine bottle. A similar/related thing can happen when you apply a tool (which is precisely what a corkscrew is) to a binding post on an amp and/or speaker.

Best

Hal 🍷

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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2022, 09:10:37 PM »
Steve, you've intentionally derailed the thread topic. This isn't about capacitors.

Besides, without some sort of before-and-after measurements or at least a properly controlled ABX comparison, there's no way to gauge the effectiveness of any capacitor modification.

Capacitors will have zero, as is none whatsoever, relevance to whether or not one correctly finger tightens their wires to binding posts or correctly, but not recommended do to significant risk of damage, uses a tool or anything capable of applying more torque (and I went even further the state a quarter turn, therefore 25% or more torque) than adequate finger tightening.

What type of wine do you prefer? Red, white, Malbec, Pinot Noir, something else? If you use to much force getting the cork out (presumably with a corkscrew) the cork breaks apart and splinters into the wine bottle. A similar/related thing can happen when you apply a tool (which is precisely what a corkscrew is) to a binding post on an amp and/or speaker.

Best

Hal 🍷

I have presented several times with data, including that different poly caps sound
different, yet are much much better than Electrolytic capacitors, which create masking problems.
Picking Capacitors by Walter Jung and Richard Marsh is also an excellent article with measurements.
It is very easy to understand.

Produce the measurements you think provide accurate data?
We would like to see proof, from you, that abx comparison equates to typical listening, and
is valid.

An extremely unique situation that 1/4 turn would ever equal 25% more torque.
Repeating yourself, see the answer above and previously on this string.

The cheapest, sweet wine with a screw top.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: December 24, 2022, 10:52:36 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Nick B

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2022, 09:50:29 PM »
Steve, I've had a lot of eggnog at the moment, so please bare with me.

You started this thread. In your first post, you wrote:

Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

I mean, you can't be serious, can you?

I'll add that you do have some valid points regarding (paraphrasing) each individual has their own unique strength with which to tighten, and about increased/decreased resistance, which can effect damping factor.

So, ok.

Now, I take your posts (all of them collectively in this thread) to imply that *you personally can hear an audible difference* between a "tight", by fingers alone, and "tighter", with a tool, or any other means.

If I'm correct as to how I take (understand) your post, I say/write "bolderdash".

Best.

Hal

Hal,

Deviating ever so briefly here, my mom used to make the best egg nog EVER (made with vodka). very tasty, no smoking or open flames allowed 💥 It was so good 😋 The recipe is still in an 80 year old cookbook Ive kept. In loving memory of my dear mom 🍷

Nick
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Offline GDHAL

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2022, 11:13:12 PM »
@Steve, uh, sorry. You're the one that started the thread with bogus claims, such as but not limited to:
Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

I think any burdon of proof lies with you, not me.

And, I think readers of this thread can/will make up their own minds as to right/wrong, true/false. Hence one reason I've resurrected it, so that misinformation (again, to which *you* are the originator) is dispelled.

@Nick

Glad I brought you back fond memories of your mom. Merry Christmas 🎄.
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Offline steve

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Re: Speaker Wire Connections on Amp and Speakers
« Reply #29 on: December 25, 2022, 06:28:36 AM »
@Steve, uh, sorry. You're the one that started the thread with bogus claims, such as but not limited to:
Finger tight is not enough. I noticed a musical difference at every session.

I think any burdon of proof lies with you, not me.

And, I think readers of this thread can/will make up their own minds as to right/wrong, true/false. Hence one reason I've resurrected it, so that misinformation (again, to which *you* are the originator) is dispelled.

@Nick

Glad I brought you back fond memories of your mom. Merry Christmas 🎄.

We have a pretty good list of individuals here who understand electronics etc. One
would think you would want to learn from them, both tightening and cleaning.

They have agreed, including cleaning the contact surfaces to reduce resistance (alters
the damping factor) and rid of other impurities.
They understand that finger tightening is not gas tight, otherwise no need to clean the
contacts.

You have not honestly proven my statements are "bogus" since you have never performed any
dbt/abx listening testing on the subject matter. (You assume dbt/abx testing is accurate.)

As such the only statement you can honestly make is that you do not know. To
claim otherwise is deceptive, not honest.


From your standpoint, the only way to prove your statement of "bogus" is truthful and
accurate is to test every audio system in the world with varying degrees of connection tightness,
which you do not understand, thought of, let alone performed.

Now two points that your "bogus" claim makes your opinions misleading and deceptive.

I have presented scientific facts, which you obviously do not understand. The damping
factor is variable since finger tightening is not stable and the connection resistance
will fluctuate. It is not gas tight.

Once again show proof that dbt or abx listening testing equates to typical listening.

Secondly, I will ask again, when statistically half of the test subjects are in a bass increasing mode and
half are in a bass decreasing mode, how does one obtain a 95% confidence result?
(In over 10 years, only one has even attempted to respond to the question, and that only after
dodging the question post after post.)

cheers

steve

« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 07:16:37 AM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers