Author Topic: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp  (Read 23244 times)

Offline rollo

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2013, 09:05:24 AM »
How can anyone sell a piece of gear that sounds awful for the first 75 hours?

It should take 2 hours to show its true self, then a few 100 after that to loosen up and and open up a bit.

We all know what burn in  is and have experienced it , that is Audio 101, that's for newbies, not for us.

You have to trust your ears, if something is amiss or bothers you then it is real. Burn in may help bit it will never solve your problem.
And there  lies the crux of the problem.
Building a system is difficult, getting impedance's correct, getting gear that works well together, trying to get some degree of synergy,setting up the speakers correctly, addressing the room, these are difficult problems often overlooked for the sake of burn in.
How many people live with systems they are unhappy with, simply because the numbers match, or the price was high, or it looks good, or people say it is great, or it is the flavor of the month, only to be unhappy in the end.

I know I am guilty :duh



    I guess you will have to ask all his many satisfied customers. Agreed after two hours to come to temp you will know. Yes after a "few hundred" hours it does open up. During that time it changes along the way. Gary stated that about 50 hours in I would hate it. He was correct. Gary was honest and absolutely correct about his design. Out of the box sounded VG to me then stated changing as he stated. 
    Now with 200 hours as suggested by Gary we are very pleased with the preamp. The hardness is gone and the sound stage opened up big time.  Now ready for prime time.
 
     If a component sounds bad it is bad. No sugar coating. I guess there may be some confused puppies out there but a general statement is unfair to the manf. and owner. If one is stubborn or kidding themselves they are are only fooling themselves. I will agree with that.
     For us its different. We are evaluating the Dodd preamps for sale consideration. So before we invest in a new line we put it through its paces. This is business for us we do not fool ourselves that costs money. We try it in as many different systems that we can. In all fairness to the manf, we go with their recommendations for break in and set up. Then the piece has zero excuse but sonic value. So if the manf. tells me 200 hours then 200 hours it is before evaluation. It's only fair. Me for one would never get used to or talked into a component that sounds bad, no matter how long we listened or how much we can make. Never.
     If one is not honest to themselves in what they hear then it is their issue not everyone. I understand where you are coming from and respect your opinion just disagree about break in, that's all.   8)


charles



     
   
   
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2013, 08:00:25 AM »
It looks like this discussion has come to a point where you guys are talking about  the same thing and generally agreeing but using different words. You know guys I think we need to check some of our references and vocabulary here. When we talk about something sounding bad in most cases it is a relative, not an absolute reference. We all have very high standards here. Most of the time when we say something sounds bad it is not that it is bad like the sound of a cheap walkman, but rather just not up to the standard that we have for a piece of audiophile gear and  in particular what we think the piece we are listening to should sound like given the price we paid for it. For example, If I had a $300 DAC nad upgraded to a $2000 DAC the results would (hopefully) be that I was very happy because the sound of the $2k unit was much better than the $300 one and I would say the new one sounded good. However, If I just purchased a $5k DAC and during the break-in time it sounded just like the just discussed $2k DAC we would say that unit sounded bad even though it sounded exactly the same as the one we were so happy with when it was an upgrade for a $300 DAC. Does a $5k sound horrible when it is breaking in and sounding like the $2k one, not really, it just doesn't sound like what we were hoping a $5k DAC to sound like.
So I agree with Mike, it is rare that a manufacturer would ship a unit that sounds offensive right out of the box and most sound pretty darn good. But I also do not disagree that most will change over time as they settle in and most will different sound (and hopefully better) better in the end.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline rollo

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2013, 08:37:30 AM »
  The unit sounded VG out of the box. It was about 50-75 hours in that Dodd stated it would change to a sound that I would not like. After 200 hours of playing time it should sound as designed. Dodd was correct.
    Gary  and myself were being honest telling it as it is.  The end result is what matters. Usually if a manf. tells me 200 hours the component gets broken in not listened to until the 200 hours are up. IMO the new caps these days take 400 hours to sound their best from my experience. Some more, like blackgates and V-cap.
    This time I thought it would be interesting to report along the way.  If the Dodd pre was not up to snuff you will know, if it is you will know as well.
     Should be getting a PIAudio Battery Buss soon to evaluate with the Dodd. Let the break in force be with you.



charles
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2013, 08:53:41 AM »
...Let the break in force be with you.

charles

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Offline rollo

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 09:43:33 AM »
...Let the break in force be with you.

charles




  Gallactic forces are the reason. Ah the magnetic force of the Sun in relationship to the earths poles. But that is every other Tuesday. I perfer Quantum break in. Jabba told me so.
    Kidding aside what are your break in experience with the Dodd ?

charles
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2013, 10:04:31 AM »

    Kidding aside what are your break in experience with the Dodd ?

charles

So far, so good. (You can refer back to my original post & reply#6 in this thread for my initial impressions.) I only have about 60 hours or so on it, so the anticipated 75 hour "downturn" hasn't arrived yet.  As soon as something changes (for better or for worse) I will post more of my thoughts.  Considering the things I've heard so far, this (the Dodd Pre) and my Moscode amp will be here to stay for a (hopefully) good, long while.

T.B.C.
SN
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2013, 01:49:58 PM »
I have noticed on a couple of amps and preamps that it sounds perfect when I first use it... Either just after a big upgrade, or brand new.  Then it starts to get weird... for 200 hours there is a roller coaster of the gear sounding harsh, sometimes veiled, and some other shifts to the sound.  After that 200 hour point it tends to stabilize.

I believe the reason is new capacitors.  They change as the current changes them.  I believe I've read scientific papers about this effect... it's not just break-in, it's settling or something. 

When you have an extremely revealing system and a trained ear, it's pretty excruciating to listen to a new system go through it's first 200 hours. 

If Gary says his needs twice that, I could understand that if he is using big caps with small voltage.

I really enjoy listening to music.


Offline StereoNut

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2013, 06:42:12 AM »
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113679.0

Alright, Boys and Girls... anybody have any ideas as to how we can help Gary out?

SN
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline Carlman

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2013, 08:37:10 AM »
Sounds like he needs money, bottom line.  I think he outlines what he could use pretty well on his post at AC.

I wish him well.
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2013, 12:53:38 PM »
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113679.0

Alright, Boys and Girls... anybody have any ideas as to how we can help Gary out?



SN

Dave Elledge from PI Audio Group & I are working on a very special project together for Gary. All proceeds will go to Gary... Be on the lookout!

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Offline S Clark

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2013, 12:35:19 PM »
In regards to lack of "tubey" sound in your rig, the Dodd has always been known for a clarity that belies its tube nature.  Even going back to the review in 6moons years ago, clarity and detail were highlighted as being almost SS in nature, but without any harshness. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dodd/dodd.html
I've always thought that the Moscode/combo was a very musical yet detailed match.  And if the newer version is like my original battery pre, tube rolling can make a world of difference (always, dammit, with tradeoffs-there is no perfect tube!).
I'm not surprised that you were please with the sound right out of the box.  These are both very good products.

Scott
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2013, 01:40:14 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Scott.

Until everything is broken in fully, I don't want to add another variable to things by tube rolling.  Most likely (but not for a while, I need to just listen to things and relax for while) the next thing I will do is delve into trying different I/C's.  Tube swapping will be in the immortal words of Eric Clapton, "further on up the road." :lol:

SN
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
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• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
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• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
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Offline S Clark

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2013, 02:17:13 PM »
Absolutely, tube rolling is a form of insanity for you to look forward to in the future, not something to muddy the waters when evaluating a new system. 

Scott
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Offline JBNY

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Re: Dodd Battery VGP Tube Pre-amp and N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Hybrid Amp
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 03:57:08 PM »
Yeah, I would get used to the sound for a few months before you make any changes. IC will make little difference, but tube rolling will probably make a very noticeable difference, which you make or may not like.
-Joe
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