Author Topic: NCore Amp  (Read 57201 times)

Offline hogg

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
NCore Amp
« on: April 25, 2012, 07:37:05 PM »
A good read at Audio Circle.  Much enthusiasm from many people.


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105310.0
Strong as an Ox and twice as smart

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2012, 09:57:55 PM »
So....did you order one Jim ?

Offline hogg

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2012, 10:33:18 AM »
Chris,

     Not yet; how about yourself?

                                   Jim
Strong as an Ox and twice as smart

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2012, 11:33:05 AM »
The thread has degenerated from my first post. :(

lonewolfny42

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »
Chris,

     Not yet; how about yourself?

                                   Jim

No Jim...but I'm interested in hearing one.


Quote
The thread has degenerated from my first post.

Happens easy....when there's a large crowd involved Mike.



Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 06:51:06 PM »
It's easy to get used to the 'country life' around here... nice and slow, kinda quiet... ;)
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2012, 06:30:02 AM »
  Yup slow and easy. Just perfect. It is getting heated over on AC over class "D" amps.
   


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2012, 08:35:15 PM »
  Yup slow and easy. Just perfect. It is getting heated over on AC over class "D" amps.

Yep, flat out ugly. What bugs me is that all sorts pile on based on preconceived notions. If it sounds good, great, if not, move along but at least listen before condemnation or adulation. No need for a freakin' Jihad based on the amp topology.  :duh

mike

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2012, 09:58:35 AM »
I read the first couple pages before the roaches moved in.

So Mike, do you have yours up and running? Do you have the NC400s? How is the treble sound on them? On par with the best tube amps? even OTLs?

http://www.hypex.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=100

$430

Zo .7mOhms!    :thumb:
It's tempting to hang it right off the back of the bass driver, with a couple inches of 2ga copper grounding cable.

I'll have to head down to Jason's again this summer to hear the new crossovers, new DAC and the new amp. It was nice of him to send it out on tour.

It's intriguing to me because it would open up the possibility of using high resolution full range speakers that need high power amps which usually cost too much for me.

Offline rollo

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 6957
  • Rollo Audio - Home demo the only way to know
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 06:46:40 AM »
  Yup slow and easy. Just perfect. It is getting heated over on AC over class "D" amps.

Yep, flat out ugly. What bugs me is that all sorts pile on based on preconceived notions. If it sounds good, great, if not, move along but at least listen before condemnation or adulation. No need for a freakin' Jihad based on the amp topology.  :duh

mike


   So true. What gets me is until they hear it no comments should be made. For the money and if one is handy the N-core just may be the ticket.
   Now if you said it sounds good that is enough for me since I respect your ears. We owned the same Amp the Cyber 211.
  How does the N-Core compare to that sound of SET ? If one desires the use of multiple Amps driving each driver using an electronic crossover just may be the ticket to DIY Nirvana.
   For me personally I would have to pay to build one. No DIY experience. Then again until heard it is moot.
   The Arions have opened my eyes to what is possible with Class "D". I'm sure there are more ways to skin the Cat with class "D" , very interested as to how the N-cores sound.
   Shut eyes take us nowhere.  Open eyes increase the learning curve. Thanks Mike.


charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Swiss Cables, Merason DAC.

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 12:03:02 PM »
So Mike, do you have yours up and running? Do you have the NC400s? How is the treble sound on them? On par with the best tube amps? even OTLs?

Rich,

Yes, mine arrived on 4/16 and since I had the chassis ready, they were running that evening. :)

As for sound, they seem to not really have one, at least that is the impression that most who have heard them come away with and the one that I have as well. The bass is pretty amazing, as one would expect with a ZOut of .7mOhm. Thus far I have not had problems with listening fatigue or grain/grit/irritation in the treble. If a recording has a warm lush sound, that is what I am hearing. Thin recordings, pretty thin. None of the extra warmth that some SET and even PP tube amps provide. I wouldn't mind a bit of that for some discs but that's why I have a tube preamp. :) One thing that I have found is the low noise and or low distortion allows for a lot of low level details to come through; in my system this isn't in your face but a sense of just little things the musicians are doing, sense of space of the recording venue, that sort of thing. I like the little nuances, to me that is what helps the illusion.

With speakers like the Abbey's they have effectively no power limit since a few watts is really loud. I have pushed them hard on some well recorded drum solos just to see how much realism was possible. Let's just say I have flashbacks to my younger days when I had a drummer for a roomie. It was a physical as well as aural experience. A buddy came down Saturday for a listen, he thought it would be a good idea since he had already ordered them. He left happy and not looking to cancel his order. He commented on the amount of low level information as well and the fact it wasn't forward sounding. I had to leave the room for a while and when I came back he had it really cranked up, trying to see if there was a problem with irritation at high levels, he didn't find a problem.

Yesterday I took them to another friends place, he has Vienna Acoustics Mahler's and drives them with a Krell FPB-600 and has a great fondness for bass heavy electronica. The NC400's had no issues driving the Mahler's to silly levels and he specifically mentioned they offered not only the iron grip of the Krell but were much more articulate in the bass. Also mentioned was the treble was considerably sweeter than the Krell, but I've never been a big fan of the treble on big Krell's. I'm 99% sure he's going to replace the giant amp with a pair of the Hypex. His last words were "they kicked the Krell's butt".

To answer Charles question, they don't offer the somewhat inherent lushness of an SET but I've never been sure if SET's sound good because of their second order THD or in spite of it. Either way, a good SET/speaker pairing is a thing of beauty. IMO the NCore don't fall into the beautiful category but beautiful music is the result. When I had Jason's pair another buddy came by and observed that we stopped analyzing the sound after a while and instead commented on how lovely the music was, how good the performance was, how good xxx could sing. For me, that is what I care about. I was listening to the Shostakovitch Jazz Suites from a Naxos DVD yesterday and just kept getting sucked in, that is what I want my system to do.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy type, hell, I've had the opportunity to try a lot of amps in my system via friends, repairs and of course purchase and for me, in my space, these are doing the best job of getting out of the way. I am absolutely certain they won't be for everyone, and I could care less if they are or are not. Someone more golden eared will probably pronounce them unlistenable and to that person, they may well be; that is equally fine. :)

mike

Offline richidoo

  • Out Of My Speaker Cabinet
  • ******
  • Posts: 11144
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 12:41:46 PM »
That's great Mike!! Thanks so much for sharing your impressions.

Are you using all-Hypex PS?

Offline Carlman

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 3037
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 01:07:30 PM »
AC has given rise to many 'fad of the moment' pieces of gear.  I think folks now compete to be the first to shoot it down as junk.  

Anyway, this is AN so I'm really happy to hear your thoughts about this amp, Mike.  I do wonder whether it would work for me, especially in a digital xo/multi-amp setup.  

I am 'skeptical' of it fitting my tastes because I haven't heard a digital or 'd' or switching amp I liked (yet).  However, I also hadn't heard an oversampling DAC I liked... but then along came this latest batch of super awesome designs... So, things change!  Being open to change is what this hobby is about.  Being skeptical is smart financially. ;)  
(And maybe that's a part of why people get upset... They don't want it to be better than what they have... I don't know.)

In any case, I do appreciate you sharing your observations here.  We have a lot of readers... probably 10:1 over participants.  

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

mgalusha

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 02:21:10 PM »
That's great Mike!! Thanks so much for sharing your impressions.

Are you using all-Hypex PS?

You're welcome Rich. I don't mind doing so but don't care for dealing with small minded folks.

Yes, I'm using the matching SMPS. While I have not been a big SMPS fan, it's tough to argue with a -128dB signal to noise ratio.


- Carl, you and me both in regards to a class D I could live with. I was predisposed to dislike this but since I had the opportunity for a listen I took advantage of it. For me it's working out well but who knows, in a few months maybe I will find out it's radioactive. :) I'm a born skeptic, I like knowing the science behind things and Bruno @ Hypex is extremely open about what he's doing and providing the measurements to back it up.

mike

« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 02:23:59 PM by mgalusha »

Earflappin

  • Guest
Re: NCore Amp
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 03:11:30 PM »
First post over here at AN.  Be gentle....   :roll:  

Small world.  I discovered the Geddes Abbey speakers through Mike G's review and now we have the same amplifier (one of them anyway...).  

I've had my NC400s (NCORE 400's) since February and would agree with everything Mike posted above.  They will not be everyone's cup of tea, but what is in this hobby.  Personal tastes ultimately are a key part of the equation.  

I do believe they set a new price/performance standard in terms of combined accuracy, resolution and musicality - assuming you pick them up the DIY route where your total spend will be just under $2K versus the $10-12K retail route.  

The area where all previous Class D amps fell down for me is they sounded “over-caffeinated” and had a glassy, un-natural sounding high frequency, which quickly led to listener fatigue. They over exaggerated leading edge transients and truncated the decay. Despite these negatives, I found myself enjoying various Class D amps for periods of time, but ultimately preferring my Class A SS and OTL’s for their better tonal balance and natural sound.  

To my ears, the NC400s get the tonal and energy balance right. Gone is the over-emphasis of the attack. Attack and decay sound like live music. There is a harmonic richness of instruments and vocalists, which grabs you. I listen to a lot of live unamplified music, especially piano and the NC400s sound much more true to live. Second, the resolving power is phenomenal. Truly. The NC400s expose new details on very familiar recordings and it does it with complete and utter effortlessness. One really notices this on complex passages. The size and location of performers and instruments as well as the recording venue are much more accurately rendered. Bass is the best I have ever heard. Lastly, the NC400s sound great at low volume and at even very high volume there is not even a hint of distortion.

I think we all have seen highly hyped new audio products come and go like the wind.  So maintaining healthy skepticism is a good thing in my book.  Unfortunately, as many of you noted, there is some pretty unhealthy posts going on over on the AC forum.  All I can recommend is that you give the NC400's a listen and come to your own conclusions.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2012, 03:20:15 PM by Earflappin »