taking the stand for Sand

[shep]

I am more than willing to believe that whatever "magic" was wrought it somehow masked the problems others have described. If it were just my ears I would say "ok" I'm hearing what I want to hear, but since a tube guy hears the same...something right is going on. Thanks for all your opinions.

[richidoo]

Good memory rollo. Yes, the flagship Levinson amp is No. 53. $40k/pair.
http://www.marklevinson.com/Products/Details/22

It is a class D switching amplifier, but like Tripath did with class T, ML made up their own marketing name for it, called class I, standing for "Interleved Power."
http://www.marklevinson.com/downloads/products/prod_22_634473655136955941_ML%20No53%20Technology%20Background%20V5%2004032010_5.17.10.pdf
The innovation is that it allows the opposing polarity output devices to overlap in the conducting state. Most PP amps must turn off one output device for a microsecond before the opposite device turns on. This new design allows both positive and negative output devices to conduct simultaneously for a short time without blowing up. It is supposed to smooth out the crossover distortion.

I've heard it on a few occasions with Harman's top speakers, Revel Salon2 and JBL Everest. On both speakers it has violently aggressive transient response. Death grip would be an understatement. The speakers sound like they are afraid of the lightning bolt up their woofer port. The amp might look perfect on the bench with infinite power and infinitely low impedance, but it was unlistenable to me on those two revealing speakers, even on easy listening compressed classic rock, the tone is affected too. The No 532 linear amp sounded much better for music listening on the Salon2 and it's half the price.   Listening to the 53 through Everest playing the shootout scene from "Open Range" was too frightening to enjoy, like being on a amusement ride that is beating the shit out of me, or like a ride in a C5 Corvette through a time trial course in a parking lot. There is only so much a human can take, and this amp has much more in reserve. Some people have the adrenals to handle that kind of fear and will pay dearly for it. I'm more of a Benji guy.

But the No 532 is an amp that I would buy in a heartbeat if I had a system that could make good use of it.

shep I think that masking problems is never the secret to better sound. In my experience it is always the removing of distortion that makes things sound better. It could be that the ICE output stage is fantastic and just waiting for a major manufacturer to reveal it through a input stage that is worthy.  Your persistence with that amp finally paid off!

[StereoNut]

Hey Shep

I really thought you started up a pretty good thread here.  Don't be discouraged if things didn't quite go in the direction you were looking for.  It certainly won't be the last time a topic goes off on a tangent a bit, whether it's here or on any other forum for that matter. 

I say "keep on postin'!!!" 

[bpape]

Absolutely. If it's working for you, then it's working! 

Personally, I have been both routes so many times it's not even funny.  I always keep coming back to a tube preamp and a bipolar, sand amp heavily biased into Class A.

Bryan

[tmazz]

Rich, sounds like the Levenson 53 is just another example of why you cannot pre-judge a piece of gear based on its price, high, low, good or bad.

[_Scotty_]

I am going to play devils advocate here in regards to the ML No.53. What if the amp is more or less a GIGO device. If anything goes in with something wrong with it, it is just going to get louder and more aggravating to listen to when it comes back out. Yeah that's going to be fun.
 Both the Revel Salon II and the JBL Everest have 24db/oct crossovers and higher order networks can ring under some operating conditions. I suspect the ML No. 53 can probably hit a loudspeaker hard enough to make both drivers and crossovers ring. Also the Revels aluminum cones could be excited enough that the out of band resonance the drivers have at the cone break-up frequency could be
generating a good dose 3rd harmonic distortion which occurs within the drivers passband even though the resonance lies outside upper cut-off frequency.
 In any case neither of these speakers would be my first choice for pairing with this amplifier. The other possibility I already mentioned is an existing problem upstream of the amp being passed straight through the amp and into unforgiving speakers.
 The amplifiers might only be the messenger bearing bad tidings.
On the issue of "tone", I don't know what an accurate reproduction of "tone" sounds like when the term is applied to reproducing recorded music. It's always so altered by the recording process;(ie. microphone colorations, the A to D converter, manipulations by the digital mixing console, which could be state of the art or sound like crap, etc,etc,etc.) that I don't know what right might be in regards to a particular recording. 
 I have heard some switching amplifiers that sound harmonically thinner than their Class A or Class AB counterparts and I prefer the sound of the conventional amps when I encounter this problem with a switching amp. But this is still a case of my making a value judgment, in absolute terms I may be full crap and have only chosen what I like to listen to.
 I think a closer listen to the ML No.53 under controlled conditions, say in ones own system, might yield a more definitive answer as to whether the emperors' new clothes are really there or not.
Scotty

[JLM]

For years tubes and solid state have gotten closer, first at extreme costs but eventually at more attainable prices.  However I still hear image/tone density with tubes versus bass control with solid state.

I'm pretty much a solid state purist for the reasons mentioned above but also for the sake of consistancy (it drives me crazy knowing that the sound of tubes change over time).

I am currently using digital amplification (Channel Island Audio D-100 monoblocks, the original).  Modded Hypex circuit with huge power supply.

But IMO synergy with the speakers can't be ignored.  Bass can sound weak with solid state or flabby with tubes.  Syrupy sound with tubes or slightly warm with solid state.  In the end, as SN stated, whatever floats your boat.