taking the stand for Sand

[_Scotty_]

rollo, be advised that this type of cap has issues with leakage current. If you have more than 5 volts of DC offset the leakage may be more than you can stand. This is the one thing that BlackGates have got over the solid polymer electrolytics, BlackGates don't have any appreciable leakage current.
 My Superphon Rev 3 has about 3volts DC offset, so the solid polymer cap is a slam dunk. The power amp application is no problem at all as all you are doing is stopping the amplifier from having gain at DC by placing a cap to ground. You aren't blocking any kind of large DC voltage.
Scotty

[richidoo]

Parts numbers Scotty, we need part numbers. Looking forward to checking them out.

Funny, we've been using Nich low leakage for coupling and PS with great results compared to BG and some films. Funny because your caps are high leakage and they sound good. So much for the theory about leakage current. Thanks for sharing

[_Scotty_]

Here is the Mouser search page for Organic Solid Polymer Electrolytic capacitors.
http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Organic-Polymer-Capacitors/_/N-5g7s?P=1z0z7l5
This is an entire class of electrolytic capacitors. There is not just one or two that are good they are all good.
 Both Nichicon and United Chemicon caps will work and sound great. The page is for through hole parts.
I forgot to mention these are just the thing for super low impedance low voltage power supplies.
Scotty
 

[_Scotty_]

All things being equal the broadband impedance characteristics are much more important than the amount of leakage current.
There is a manufacturer that makes an electrolytic capacitor with silk and bamboo paper in it that has almost no leakage at all it also has a completely unremarkable impedance curve and it sounds DOA as well.
 The solid polymer electrolytic is a GIGO part. If you put a hashy, distorted, grainy signal into it that is what will come out the other side.
 This cap will not mask an upstream problem and while it is not as good as direct coupling a circuit I think I can live with it until the next breakthrough in capacitor technology.
Another nice thing about these caps is that there is no smearing, unlike film caps which uniformly exhibit smearing of the signal. As a result of this the focus in the sound-stage is tighter and the acoustic space the recording was made in is more clearly delineated. Reverberation tails are easier to hear and can be followed further into the noise floor, backgound is blacker too.
Scotty

[richidoo]

Thanks Scotty. I'll try them.  I've seen them before, on the Buffalo DAC PCB, I think.

[_Scotty_]

The same surface mount package has been used for standard electrolytic
caps you would have to confirm that by checking part numbers.
It would be nice if they did use polymer electrolytic caps in there.
Scotty

[shep]

Thanks guys for carrying this topic onwards, although I did secretly hope someone would support my experience with ICE. You have however thrown a wrench into the works with this new direction about caps. I am well aware about how important they are in the scheme of things. I'm not quite sure where all the BG's are situated in my amp. There's a whole raft of them.  I'm pretty sure they are the infamous ones that take forever to break in. The ICE module being atypical in it's design, the above comments may not exactly apply. When I requested this upgrade, from Wyred4sound, he asked me what I wanted, given the space limitations in the case, and the BG's where available and fit so that's where I went. IN my very modded CDP, it's Mundorf just about everywhere. I'm afraid I'm pretty ignorant...He did say however, that the Vishay Z'foils put in the amp were very special and would have a big effect. I guess at the end of the day, since I can't go back and change anything, I have to believe that what I hear is a fortuitous combination of circumstances and wishing to have done it "better" is just a sure sign of Nervosa.

[_Scotty_]

shep, unfortunately audio is a moving target and what was the best today may only be good tomorrow. In my case I only have to be concerned with 8 "coupling" caps in my system. In several cases the power supply rails are too high to allow the use of polymer caps.
 I wouldn't get too hung up about what is in your current components as sooner or later they will be replaced with something that sounds better.
 Scotty

[richidoo]

Scotty, you are right the same can for SMD caps. Vishay and Nichicon look like that.

shep, I am open minded to class D amps. I have had some incredible listening experiences with Nuforce and Spectron amps. But I also experienced and heard about very bad problems with each of those. I'm intrigued to hear Digital Amplifier Company Cherry, and Channel Islands D200mk2. The original D500 was the first of the mkII CIA amps and very impressive when I heard it in 2008.

I am not a big fan of anything W4S, but it seems like your tech was able to work magic that is not in their commercial offerings.

My friend Sol can talk me down from the class D tree in a heartbeat with the technical challenges that make it inappropriate for high end use. But I'm always willing to listen to a new amp and he is always open to new solutions to the problems. Usually the class D art is in how do we disguise the switching frequency, with filters and feedback. A linear amp can be made without those. So that's the challenge in a nutshell. The switching freq is never fully disguised and bat ears like half of the guys in our club leave the room when it is turned on just idling. I can't hear it, but I'd like my guests to be able to enjoy my system instead of hide outside. Bad enough they hide from my speakers!  

But I would be thrilled to own an amp that made music like Spectron does but without the technical problems. Awesome resolution, awesome bass.  Sounds like that's what you're hearing with your little ICE cube too?

[richidoo]

Maybe this is my spectron beater:

http://www.hypex.nl/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=100

Check out the tests on the product bulletin PDF. Amazingly low distortion and noise. But how does it sound?

[tmazz]

....I did secretly hope someone would support my experience with ICE.......

Shep there is no need for anyone to support your experience with ICE. A good amp is a good amp regardless of the technology used to build it. If it works in your system and inside of your head then it is a good amp for you. And that is all that should matter.

If a piece of gear gets my foot tapping then is is good for me and I could care less what is, or is not inside the box.

Buy your gear and build you system to you and you alone. If somebody else doesn't like it, tha'ts their loss. There is plenty of other gear for them to pick from to find something that will make them happy.

[Triode Pete]

On the contrary...

[Face]

Tubes are for tires.   

[BobM]

....I did secretly hope someone would support my experience with ICE.......

Shep there is no need for anyone to support your experience with ICE. A good amp is a good amp regardless of the technology used to build it. If it works in your system and inside of your head then it is a good amp for you. And that is all that should matter.

I have to say that when I first heard them I didn't like what I was hearing, but the technology has improved greatly lately. I don't know that I would buy one for myself, yet, but they are getting better.

[rollo]

  Ice is nice. The Arion Hybrid class "D" amp that is.  With Analysis Speakers the Arion broought ouy the body and soul as well as all the detail and speed associated with class"D". Did not sound SS at all did not tubey at all. The best of both worlds.
  Class "D" can be done right. The key is how to make music continuous with all the switching going on inside. Not an easy task. www.analysisaudio.com/arion.php
  I believe it is Levenson that has a patent or patent pending on a new way of making the swithching more contiuous. Interesting stuff.


charles
SMA