Author Topic: Moscode 402AU  (Read 36459 times)

Bigfish8

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2010, 05:52:53 AM »
Mike:

Thank you for the information about the Cherry Amps and Rich is correct, I definitely want my music on the warm side of neutral.  Neutral to me sounds good for a short period of time and then I just want to shut it off.  I have heard the Channel Islands, Wyred for Sound and Spectron Class D Amps.  While others love them they did not crank my audio engine.  

The Odyssey Monos were powerful amps and I enjoyed my time with them.  The reason I sold them is that I heard amps, in my system, that were less grainy, had better note separation and better note decay.  Once I heard it I wanted it and set on this finding a new amp quest.  I ideally would like to buy something that I will want to keep for at least 3 years and therefore I have not rushed to make a decision.  It is hard for me to believe but I have been actively evaluating options for 6 weeks already.

Shane plans to bring over the BAT tube amp this weekend and I believe the results of that session will bring me much closer to knowing what I will chose.

Ken

Offline mfsoa

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2010, 06:50:20 AM »
Guys, thanks for accepting my comments as I intended - There's a fine line between unwelcome shill and genuine enthusiasm and it's hard to walk it sometimes  :thumb:

Nope, the DAC amps will not add warmth, but OTOH it does not have the slight silvery glaze that I heard with the Rotel ICE amp I borrowed once (The Rotel was still a fine piece for the $$). I wouldn't call it lean but it certainly isn't lush, by itself.
We heard the Cherry with a SS pre and VMPS towers and it was too bright for my tastes - The VMPSs sounded better w/ a Quicksilver tube amp in place.

The DAC amps somehow have incredible imaging, which is important to me. And good cymbal tone which I am sensitive to being a hack amateur drummer.

Just for some reference - I use a tube pre with my Cherry JR and my room is very well damped.

-Mike


Offline richidoo

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2010, 08:00:26 AM »
The Spectron we auditioned last year courtesy Shane sounded pretty piercing on my Ushers. I loved the ultra clear sound on chamber music / strings, but I can ignore treble problems easier than others. Everyone else's brains started melting. I think it was as much the Usher titanium mid and tweeter ringing as it was the mercilessly revealling amp, but Ken has same Ti tweeter until he can get the diamond version, so that explains the NC bias against ultra-clean class D amps. I loved the clarity and power, so I would look in that direction again if I needed 200W+, like those Maggies bpape is trying to talk me into  :D. Spectron output filter is within digital feedback loop, which Tommy says is a potential problem. Spectron is quite proud of the implementation of output filter. To each his own...  There are new CIA amps now too, and big one sounded very good back in 08, on VMPS speaker. I think wolfy said it sounded OK at 09 RMAF too. I never heard the old ones, but I know they were not favs among NY or NC gangs, still UcD of course, but I like that tech. 

(End of annual class D rant)

Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2010, 08:42:09 AM »
Spectron was ear bleeding on Harbeths as well... which aren't exactly ultra neutral speakers overall... not my cup of tea at all.

The only class D I've heard for full range that I could live with and listen to for more than a few minutes were Tripath implementations... and while not ultra resolving neutral, they're not exactly what I'd call warm sounding either.  I tried to love the Nuforce stuff.  It's ability to deal with complex music was awesome.  But it just didn't have it for longer term listening.  Again, midrange and top end were just not refined enough for me.  ICE is good for subwoofers, nothing more, imho.  I've heard a bunch of different ICE implementations and hated every single one of them for full range sound.  For subs, they're awesome.  For midrange and treble, no thank you.  But my ears are different than a lot of folks.  I like things on the warm side of neutral.  I have an extreme hyper sensitivity in the 2K-8K range and, although it's dropped off a bit as I've gotten older, still have pretty good hearing way up high.... which means things that sound great to others are like nails on a chalkboard to me.  Truth be told, the kind of sound that suits me for longer listening sessions is likely too relaxed for others in the local group. 

I can live with slightly rounded bottom end and not quite as grippy, delineated bass.  I don't like it, but I can live with it.  I can't live with something that is hot or forward in the midrange.  I think I'm the anti-Richard Schwery :)

The BAT amp here is absolutely glorious with the PSB Synchrony One.  The PSB needs a bit more power for rock out volumes because of it's multiple 4th order crossovers that suck a bit of power.  But 8 1940's vintage 6SN7 octals and some 6C33C-B tubes make some beautiful music on the PSBs if you use sane volume levels.  I'm curious to hear it on the rosewood veneer Harbeth Monitor 40.1s that are showing up here Monday.  It just might be syrupy heaven for me depending on what vintage of 6SN7s I roll in there...
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

shep

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2010, 11:51:22 PM »
I don't know why I bother, since it's just hot air, but I have to take a stand for my ice amp! It's far and away the best amp I've ever owned. Maybe I just got lucky or someone sprinkled fairy dust on it? I know one thing; it impresses the hell out of my neighbor, who has a very nice tube combo...and is better in a number of ways. I too am sensitive to nasties. I live in dread of hearing them. No offence but you guys spend a fortune on tubes and endless threads about which and where. I just turn up the vol. and have glorious music. Like I said, it's just hot air. Until and if I brought it to a rave, nobody has to believe me.  :thumb:

lonewolfny42

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2010, 12:38:48 AM »
shep....

Quote
I don't know why I bother, since it's just hot air, but I have to take a stand for my ice amp!

Everyone hears different things...

If your happy....then that's all that matters.... :thumb:

shep

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2010, 12:49:27 AM »
I might be just delusional, which goes with the territory  :shock:

Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2010, 05:26:26 AM »
Shep,

It's the joy of this hobby... It's completely subjective and as Wolfy says, everyone hears different things.  Tubes are far from perfect as well.  For me and only me, I've formed some stubborn, curmudgeon-y like opinions about things based on my ears and my listening experiences.  If you are happy with the amp, it doesn't matter one iota what I or anyone else thinks.  If your ears think it's good, it's good. 

I and two others literally had to go outside Rich's house when he was playing the Spectron/Usher combo loudly for a while that one get together.  Not just leave the listening room or get out of the sweet spot.  We literally had to leave the house.  Meanwhile some folks were sitting in the sweet spot soaking it up and didn't think there was an issue.  Chacun son gout....
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

Offline mfsoa

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2010, 07:59:20 AM »
And even if everyone did hear the exact same thing, we still process it though our internal wants/desires.

We all see the same appearances in women, but do expect everyone to think the same way about Olivia Munn as I do?  :drool:

-Mike

shep

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2010, 10:24:04 AM »
There's a good French word, "Grincheux" , which is not a character trait I care to reveal...but...I know zilch about Spectron, other than what I've read here and there. The guys over at Wyred have ears that hear like mine, that I do know. I would be very upset if someone had to leave the house when I was playing loud. Hasn't happened yet. Ok so I have fairy dust liberally sprinkled on my amp. How the hell are we supposed to have any kind of concensus if we can't agree on a simple thing like this? I wish I had the money to take a damn plane and show you!!! well "hear" you. Problem: you got the wrong voltage. I ain't got the money and maybe it's better thos way  :thumb: I appreciate the molifying but I will stick to my guns, and to my amp.

Offline hometheaterdoc

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2010, 05:00:07 PM »
Shep,

I had this amp:

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=332920&b_id=&find_groupid=18048

in my system a few weeks ago.  A local customer owns it.  I know you have a custom one off Wyred piece that likely has differences to their standard pieces.  But the above amp was a jaw clenching, teeth grinding, nails on a chalkboard experience in my system driving Usher and PSB speakers.  I even put in the Belles 22A tube preamp into the setup and inserted the most lush sounding tubes I had in it and it still did no good.  I could hear the amp above all else.  The only speakers I had here that I didn't try it on was the Harbeth Monitor 40.1s.  That might have been a better match up.  The guy that bought my cherry Monitor 40.1s is using an ICE amp on them and absolutely loves it.  Different strokes for different folks.  I'll give it a whirl on the rosewood veneer Monitor 40.1s soon.  My customer is going to bring his amp back for another listen when the Usher Mini1s and Mini2s finally come back into stock before pulling the trigger on a purchase... I'll try his amp on the Harbeths while he's here.  

Again, it's all just my opinion.  I'm sure there would have been quite a few folks that liked the sound of the amp.  It was way too thin, forward, bright, and aggressive for me.  Everyone else's mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 07:03:32 PM by hometheaterdoc »
Shane Sangster
Used to be Night & Day Audio.......

shep

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2010, 11:03:30 PM »
I didn't intend to monopolise this topic or come across as defensive. I think I just got lucky. That or when ICE is used as per their integrated, which isn't that different from mine, excepting a dif. pot., there's no trace of what you describe. I do have to point out that they take a goodly while to burn in and seem very ic dependant. Anyway this WAS a Moscode thread and I guess I react like someone said my shiney new convertable was a peice of sht. Grincheux, like I said.

Bigfish8

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2010, 06:37:45 AM »
Guys:

I just wanted to provide an update to my amp quest.  Shane brought over a BAT VK-60, Moscode 402AU, Butler 2250, PS Audio Prefect Wave DAC, bunches of tubes and cables.  It is really nice to have a local audio friend who also happens to be a dealer. 

While Shane was here we tried connecting the BAT into my system using some XLR single ended adapters.  Shane told me the adapters caused an audible audio hum in his system but they were the only balanced to single-ended adapters he had available.  Wow, the hum was so audible in my system it was impossible to evaluate the amp.  Shane decided to use the Transporter as a transport (by-passed the tube output stage) and connected it to the Perfect Wave DAC and then balanced to the BAT.  All cables in the system were JPS SC-3, except the PCs which were Black Sands Silver MKV's.

Let first say that what we were listening to with the BAT Amp was no longer my system but it was the only way to get a flavor for the amp without the ungodly hum from the adapters.  With the combination described above the speakers disappeared with a huge soundstage.  Female voices were so real sounding my neighbor (who came over for a short period) commented that they probably would not sound that good at a live performance.  The mid-range with the BAT just truly absorbs you with the music.  My cursor is jumping so I will continue with another post.

Bigfish8

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2010, 06:48:04 AM »
Sorry Guys but to continue from the previous post.  As I learn more about audio I am beginning to think completing a system is about maximizing the musical traits you want most and having to accept some trade-offs.  I have been used to the Odyssey Monos in my system and they definitely had a good grip on the bass.  After Shane left I played some tunes from my favorite group, The Dave Mathews Band, and I realized I was missing an important quality to this type of music.  The low bass, the feel of the bass drum when the drummer taps it, just was not there. 

I installed the Moscode 402AU into the system, with whatever tubes Shane has in it, using all of my components (ModWright Transporter, Mapletree Pre and JPS SC-3 cables).  The midrange had lost some of it bloom but the speakers were definitely more balanced.  Bass was back in spades.  The note separation and decay I heard on my initial audition were all there. 

Well, I will do some more experiments today and take full advantage of the opportunity Shane has provided.



Ken

Offline Carlman

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Re: Moscode 402AU
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2010, 08:25:10 AM »
Cool! and thanks for sharing, Ken. :)
BTW, to get rid of the bouncing cursor problem, click on a button that looks like a broken piece of paper next to the URL. 
-C
I really enjoy listening to music.