Author Topic: Let's talk about pre-amps! (Read 40023 times)

WEEZ · « **on:** March 02, 2007, 03:35:50 PM »

I realize that some do not use a pre-amp, for various reasons. But if you do, what do you use? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? Is there a pre-amp you lust over? What features do you want or need?

(This could be interesting..or be so boring it might fizzle)...but let's try it!

WEEZ

bpape · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2007, 06:01:40 PM »

Tough for me since I sell them. But honestly, if you're a tweaker, the Korato's make an exceptional platform for a top quality pre for a reasonable price.

If you're at RMAF, you'll hear it.

Bryan

Double Ugly · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2007, 07:54:29 PM »

I'm looking *hard* for a pre-amp that won't negatively affect the wonderful clarity and openness I get with my Transporter connected directly to the amps. Taking my previous pre- (a Placette Audio RVC) out of the system proved revelatory, as did the removal of my DAC (a twice-modified ack dAck!).

Still, I never tried the Placette after all the SB2, PS and Transporter mods were complete (I stupidly sold it

), and now I wonder if it might be the answer I'm seeking now. I fellow I trust in NYC has some ideas, so I'll probably take a chance on one of his suggestions.

I didn't see the Korato on either of your sites, Bryan...did I miss it? I doubt it's for me since I'm not a tweaker, but congrats on being the first US dealer.

-Jim

richidoo · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2007, 09:31:28 PM »

I like the ARC Ref 3. It is really easy to use with remote, I can see the numbers without glasses on from 20 feet away, and it sounds incredible. It adds fire and light and joy to any music you put through it, without making a noticeable 'audible' change. Music still sounds crystal clear and 'transparent" but just better in an undescribable way. It is an audio love box. No not glove box. I know it adds dynamic energy as all good high gain preamps do, but there is more to it. It definitely improved the sound and pace of every track on my demo CD.

I heard it with ARC ref 110 amp and WATTpuppy7, boy I can't wait to hear it with speakers that have some soul.

I did hear the top dog Placette active pre at RMAF with the new Moscode amp, and that was a very clear open sound. Very impressive, I spent some time in there, one of my top 3 rooms at the show. I used to think that was the way to go, as uncolored as possible just like the textbook says, until I heard the Ref 3 and fell in love and forgot the rules. I would try the Placette at home before I bought anything else. It is awesome too.

I would also like to hear the VTL preamps some more. I heard the 6.5 at RMAF but the new Thiel speakers were very aggressive, maybe not broken in yet.

Then there is Steelhead, AVA UltraEC, ModWright, BelCanto DAC3, it goes on and on... Thank goodness!
Rich

miklorsmith · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2007, 01:32:03 AM »

Richi - I have a funny feeling you will be VERY welcome here.

bpape · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2007, 04:21:11 AM »

Well, if you're wanting to leave the sound of the system exactly as you have it right now, then maybe a passive transformer based pre is the way for you to go.

You didn't see the Koratos because I'm still working out the website and some of the other brands I'm going to be carrying. At RMAF, I'll be in with Mike at ACI.

Bryan

Double Ugly · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:08:52 AM »

Quote from: "bpape"

Well, if you're wanting to leave the sound of the system exactly as you have it right now, then maybe a passive transformer based pre is the way for you to go.

I agree, but it isn't that I'm necessarily wanting to leave it exactly as is ...I just don't want made worse. So far, nothing I've added (DACs, even power conditioners) has improved the sound (either changed it for the worse, or added layer of

between us and the music).

If the pre- can improve the sound without adding a veil*, I'm all for it.

*My apologies for using a vague, overly-used term, but it is the most appropriate word I could find in my limited vocabulary, and it works here

Bunky · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:18:02 AM »

i have been thru eight preamplifiers in the past three and a half years.the last three of which have been of the tubed variety. the Anthem Pre 1L was followed by the Balanced Audio Technology VK 3i and then finally the Odyssey Candela. the Candela is very fast ,clear and clean. it does a very good job at conveying the sound of the source and best off all it responds very well to tube rolling which can make it easy to taylor it to a variety of systems. it also sounds really nice with my SFS 80 tube amplifier.

richidoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2007, 12:17:10 PM »

Quote from: "miklorsmith"

Richi - I have a funny feeling you will be VERY welcome here.

Thanks Miklor!

WEEZ · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2007, 06:02:53 PM »

I'm a believer in using tubes in the line stage. A good tubed preamp will almost always make the system sound more relaxed and open, and still not call attention to itself. The sense of air and space is really evident...but a good one won't scream "Toobs" at you.

I think there are more 'good' preamps available today than ever before.

WEEZ

WEEZ · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2007, 05:30:57 AM »

BTW, this is the one I use:

www.wyetechlabs.com/preamps/coral/coral.html

It's the 'runt' of the litter

WEEZ

steve · « **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2007, 08:32:18 AM »

Well, there have been around 10 people who I have done some testing with my 11A, using different methods and different speakers.

Some, I suggested that they should hear a difference when I take the 11A in and out of the system. I don't know how I could have made a suggestion any clearer and shot myself in the foot.

I stated to one or two that I was going to make a change to the 11A itself and it should sound different. That should also have killed what I was hoping for, no difference.

I asked others to just listen with the pre in and out. Check for any differences, width, depth, soundstage, focus, bass, treble etc. Whatever.

Not one has been able to tell the difference when I had it in the system and out.

The 10A is almost as close.

richidoo · « **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:02:32 AM »

Hi Steve
Just to play the idiot here for a minute (nothing new), I mean this more as a technical question than as a wisecrack, although I know it will sound more like the latter:

If you can't hear the difference with a preamp in or out of the system, why do I need it? Especially if I know I don't need any additional gain?

Again, not meant to rock the boat, but a technical question phrased particularly poorly.

Thanks
Rich

steve · « **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:28:06 AM »

Quote from: richidoo on July 02, 2007, 10:02:32 AM

Hi Steve
Just to play the idiot here for a minute (nothing new), I mean this more as a technical question than as a wisecrack, although I know it will sound more like the latter:

If you can't hear the difference with a preamp in or out of the system, why do I need it? Especially if I know I don't need any additional gain?

Again, not meant to rock the boat, but a technical question phrased particularly poorly.
Thanks
Rich

I Rich,

Not a wisecrack at all Rich. A line preamp allows one to select what source and give voltage gain and then feeds to the amplifier, hopefully without colorations or distortions.

My preamplifier does this without altering the sound, coloring it. One has to be concerned with alot of sonic traits, such as dynamics, tonal balance, texture, focus, depth, width, soundstaging etc.

With the testing done so far, the 11A is so pristine and pure that what music goes in, exits the preamplifier without being altered. What goes in comes out the same without colorations, distortions. In otherwards, it is extremely clear, transparent, without adding any colorations, affecting dynamics etc.

Why do you need a preamp if you do not need the gain? "Especially if I know I don't need any additional gain?"

I was responding to DU. "I just don't want made worse."

You don't since you are using an integrated amplifier, as your active preamp stage is incorporated into the amplifier itself. Why add an extra stage to a system that doesn't need it?

There are two drawbacks with an integrated amp.
1) Frequency dependent feedback through the power supply.

2) The manufacturer designs the amp first, then make the included preamp fit. The quality of the entire assembly is dependent upon the quality of the amp.

Separates allows one to design the preamp first, as it is the only component that can actually be compared to a straightwire. Then the amp is designed afterward. This results in less compensation, thus better synergy.
I do not know any other company that does this.

ps. Here is a comment Martin made in issue 177 before the PBN Olympia-L preamp (12 grand) landed on the scene. It involved the system using the 11A, and using the new LessLoss power cords.

"The Big Rig had become something better, more musically truthful than any system I had ever heard... anywhere... anytime."

Hope this helps.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2007, 10:55:48 AM »

My neighbor has a Krell CDP/Integrated amp and Sonus Faber speakers. The amp has a feature that allows an outboard preamp. I took my Modwright over there when I had it. We both were bowled over with how much it improved the sound. I left the pre with him for a couple of weeks. Over that time he had another buddy over and tried many tests with it. At the end he decided it didn't change the sound much at all vs. the integrated by itself.

I didn't have opportunities past the first one to compare, but I know what I heard that one time - the tubes were Very Welcome. I can't fault his longer-term opinion either. Who knows about such things? The Moddie is certainly on the clean/fast end of the tube pre spectrum.

I generally want my preamp to add a little space/tone, but everyone's got a spin.