Author Topic: Bunch O Amps  (Read 25278 times)

Offline richidoo

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Bunch O Amps
« on: May 10, 2009, 05:53:09 PM »
Sol came over yesterday to bring the final prototype of his I-60 integrated amp. While he was here we listened to a lot of stuff.

Spectron Musician - on loan from hometheaterdoc. This has great power, extreme clarity, exciting. True clear highs, awesome powerful bass. Impact is Godalmighty. Strong life presence in the music. It will play very loud with no distortion. The clarity takes a bit getting used to, and the amp is best left ON. It sounds a bit too detailed when cold. Lightning storms make continuous ON impossible this time of year. Very revealling. Tape hiss, radio swish, recording details. The detail is strong but not distracting, unless it's cold. I think it mellows a little when warm. It's a fun ride. I can see why people absolutely love this amp. Our own Black Sands Audio is the Canadian distributor.  Thanks Shane, I think you're gonna like this one, I will warm it up overnight for your bat ears.  Carl this amp will make you pee on yourself so bring extra Depends. It is a sit down and listen amp, very captivating. Usually something so intense would make me tired of it after a week. It wants to play loudly, and my room without treatment can't handle it. Lots of treatments coming, hopefully in time for the G2G. I find that I really like big watts if the delicacy remains. The Spectron can do it.

Samet i60 - Sol's final version of his 60W integrated. It is very nice. Clear clean sound with lots of power and control in the bass. More "normal" sounding than the Spectron, which is a bit of a relief, and I find myself listening to the i60 more often. It is centered, wholesome, honest, no real sound of its own. But not Godalmighty. Designing PCBs for it next.

Exposure 2010S - Sol read the Stereophile review of this integrated and was curious how it would compare with his i60. It has a warm musical certain something like Dudley said in stereophile, but also an edgy slightly metallic distortion in the mid treble. Phono stage sucks. Inside some decent parts alongside some obvious cost cutting measures. Interesting little amp. Good for the money at used prices, but definitely NOT "Stereophile Class A"... Already sold it.

Marantz 1180DC vintage stereo integrated amp, circa 1978. My neighbor's amp, he is the original owner (he also has a 8 track recorder!) It wouldn't turn on, so I recommended Sol fix it. A couple PS caps and a good cleaning of switches and it works like new. Wow, it sounds beautiful. A little compressed and smaller soundstage than modern amps, but the presentation and overall listening experience was superb. It's about 100W, so it had plenty of juice for the Ushers. It has spring terminals with small wire holes so the noted soundstaging deficiencies could well be from the zip cord speaker wire we had to use. A great amp!

PassDIY B1 preamp. I built this one my dammself. Using Pass PCB and their well matched actives, I added Vishay MKT 1822 coupling caps, 7824 regulator, Triad 24VDC wallwart, Alps Blue, Dale resistors, and made the case from plywood which took forever. No electrical mistakes this time, miracle! It is still breaking in the caps, but sounds good, if a little stuffy. There is extension and fantastic bass power and control, a little short on air and microdetails, kinda like a $10k Levinson 326S preamp I once heard. You can hear everything, but removing the pre reveals more in the signal. Time will tell. Sol says that stuffiness is JFET sound and suggests replacing buffer jfets with bipolar darlington... maybe later after it is all burned in. Super easy build with the Pass PCB. Even a caveman could do it.

We stuck the Transcendent Grounded Grid preamp into the mix a couple times. It was nice to have it back in the house after a major workout at Carl's while his C220 got new boobs. In front of the i60 it was fat and dancy, a great combo.

stereofool's AR vt100 is here too, needs biasing, but time got too late to play with 400VDC, so next time... Thanks to the the "loaners," Sol, Shane, Steve. Hopefully some of these will still be here for G2G.

Offline stereofool

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 07:18:14 PM »
WOW! You've been a busy boy  :drool:!

Me, I've spent the entire day, replacing a door that was destroyed in a second break-in, on Tuesday.
Hopefully, when I'm completely through...the new door will be kick-in proof.

I'm hoping that I will be able to listen to the system, again by mid-week.
Steve
Have you ever noticed.... Anyone going slower than you is an idiot...and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 07:44:16 PM »
Damn Steve! Sorry about the trouble. Get a recording of a big attack dog, and set your computer to play it real loud on the stereo it when motion sensed. The little shit remembers all the booty in there.  Get a motion sensing camera, the cops already know the little fucker, you just gotta give them some evidence to lock him up (again)
http://www.smarthome.com

The Spectron is really nice when warmed up. I had a nice long evening of listening to FM while kids went to bed early and wife was working late.

Offline Carlman

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 08:25:41 PM »
Yes, definitely very busy.. wow.  I too have been busy but in a different way.. This weekend has been all about tackling a mile-long laundry list of little things to finish the basement.. All the while I've been enjoying the C220's higher fidelity.  Thanks again to Sol. 

I'm looking forward to this diaper-wetting experience.. Glad I'll be sitting on YOUR couch.. ha!  Detail with finesse with impact definitely sounds like a winning combo. 8)

Sol's latest achievement sounds like a treat as well.. Sounds like this G2G will be a real smash... Speaking of G2G's... I plan to host one in June and/or after the acoustic panels are up. 

Thanks for the very nice summary of the gear, Rich.  I hope you get the stuffiness issue resolved on the GG pre.  I think I know what you're talking about.. (I might not) but if Sol's got a good idea how to fix it... the end result will be a seriously aweome sounding pre.

Good luck and see you at the G2G!



I really enjoy listening to music.

Bigfish8

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2009, 05:51:24 AM »
Rich:

It definitely sounds like you had a great time.  I have been away so much lately that I don't think I have even turned my system on for over two weeks!  Darn, my priorities are screwed-up!

Ken

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009, 09:38:33 AM »
The GG sounds fine, but the B1 is a tad stuffy so far, but not bad. Both are serious line stages for seriously small money. But neither is as delicate and refined as the Minimax Preamp. I think the B1 cost me about $150 total, with 4 inputs, 2 outputs. Without the PCB even cheaper. It has a lot of potential. I enjoy the experimenting and learning.

I'm looking forward to the g2g also. I hope to have the treatments mostly installed by then.


zybar

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009, 10:40:00 AM »
Rich,

Was the Spectron the stock SE Mk II model or did it have any upgrades?

I had a little different reaction to the stock Spectron SE Mk II when I auditioned it for almost a month in my system driving the woofers on the Emerald Physics CS2's and Vandy 5A's.

To me , it was not something I could live with as a full range amp.  I found the top end noisy and splashy, and the mid-range was a little flat and lean for my tastes.  It also lacked the texture and body of the music that I get with my Atma-Sphere MA-1's.  These observations are when I used the Spectron on the CS2 woofers (I couldn't use the Spectron on the tweeters, it simply too noisy) and full range on the 5A's.

Used just on the woofers, it had tremendous control and authority and provided a very strong foundation for the music.   

George

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2009, 11:31:58 AM »
Hi George,
It is bone stock mk2.  I can understand what you mean about the treble noise. I think that it is amplifying noise on the input, but yes it is more noticable than other amps. The treble of this amp is so strong nothing gets past unnoticed. If it was mine I would short the inputs to see if noise improves. For me the payoff of the input sensitivity and speed is the incredible detail and true to life treble which few SS amps I have heard can do. That's why I like tubes, and I bet you too since you use the OTLs. These highs are more violent than tubes' grace, but I can take that if it is truthful. At first I thought the mids were a little lean in comparison to the bold top and bottom, but they are not in absolute terms. Compared to my Snappers or any other tube amp I have heard this is a little (or a lot) leaner. Correct tone is what I'm after, not comfort and beauty, so this is an interesting step in the search. There's some others I want to hear, but I don't think they'll be this fast.

Perhaps you were using a tube preamp with it? My tube pre caused a soft (-50dB) slowly rising feedback siren on startup, so I shut er down right away. Could have been a little offset from the still cold preamp, but I didn't want to explore that. So far I have only used my Sansui tuna straight into the Spectron, with great results. I could easily live with it. But I don't like it when it is cold.

The more I listen to it, the more I like it musically. It is worlds better than the NuForce 9SE that I heard about 2 years ago. I think it has great synergy with my speakers. Other Usher beryllium owners have said they like it. The Ushers throw a huge soundstage, this amp fills it better than any other amp so far.

The right channel does have a ~-70db quiet high freq noise, the left side is quiet. There is minor hiss in both -80dB, but I assume that is coming in on the inputs through my unshielded Grover ICs. When the music starts that all disappears. The texture and detail is intensely musical. But quibbles nonetheless, for $7500??? 

I think some class D amps are more sensitive to system matching than others, perhaps due to the design style of the mfgs. Maybe that's why the wide range of opinions, the sound of the same varies in different systems. I've always liked the stable and reliable Hypex on paper, but reluctant to pony up for them because I always hear they are smooth and boring with opamp input. Now with W4S, BelCanto, Spectron building their own inputs things might improve for class D in high end audio. The spectron is as musically exciting as my Snappers, but even more bold. Both have quibbles. As probably all truly high end amps do, at least the ones I could afford  :rofl:

Offline Carlman

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2009, 11:53:19 AM »
Correct tone is what I'm after, not comfort and beauty, so this is an interesting step in the search. There's some others I want to hear, but I don't think they'll be this fast.

If you did want beauty and speed, I think the latest AKSA amps would be the ticket.  The only thing they lacked compared to my current amp is finesse.  I am addicted to finesse in terms of detail presentation (low noise/black background) and control (imaging, instrument separation, non-congestion on complex music, etc.).  However, I often miss the AKSA's 'being there' presentation.  It's not that the AKSA didn't have finesse, just not as much as the McIntosh 402.

If it weren't such a hassle to ship, I'd suggest getting one on loan from someone.  I think the latest amp is probably a good notch better than what I've heard so, it may actually do finesse, tone, and speed.  It is the closest to a tube amp I've heard.. that wasn't a tube amp.  I liked it more than the Snappers personally.. But our goals are different.  I'm still a big fan of a 2nd generation original... where I have a new performance that's as correct as it can be.. or as correct as I can make it... whatever 'correct' means.. haha.  That's a long description..

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2009, 12:45:02 PM »
I will definitely add it to the list. Too many people I trust love AKSA not to try it. pmkap has Soroya. lonewolf has Aksa too, I think?? It is summer again, time to go hear jazz and amps in NY.... ;) Some new amps coming soon from Hugh too iirc

Offline Carlman

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2009, 01:07:52 PM »
I put together Lonewolf's AKSA '100 Nirvana+' and it sounded better than my own.  Practice makes perfect. ;)  The Soraya was playing the Dave Ellis speakers at RMAF year before last.  I thought it was a nice sound but like everything at RMAF, I had a hard time taking away any real observations. 
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »
After the jazz show coasted into NPR whining I noticed the sound of talk (not just the content) was unbearable through the Spectron. Maybe it was just the processing of the local station, or compressed stream.

I spent the afternoon reading about BAT tube amps after seeing one on Craig's list. Gotta resist the tube bug for a little while at least.

Black Sand Cable

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2009, 02:57:08 PM »

I spent the afternoon reading about BAT tube amps after seeing one on Craig's list. Gotta resist the tube bug for a little while at least.

Don't resist.....I need somebody who is more experienced with tubes then I am to try out PrimaLuna !  :lol:

Black Sand Cable

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2009, 02:59:29 PM »
I really wish I get you guys some W4S stuff to fool around with. For the money, it will surprise you.

Offline richidoo

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Re: Bunch O Amps
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2009, 03:30:31 PM »
Aw man, you are cruel....

Why not wait for the current package to land before more temptations?