AudioNervosa

Systemic Development => Amplification and Preamplification => Topic started by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 08:19:24 AM

Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 08:19:24 AM
OK, not Big Muscle, say 100 - 200 wpc, non-Class D.

This would be a reference amp for non-hi-efficiency speaker evaluations.  I would like it to be of an accepted/proven design, by a prominent manufacturer, used.

Price could be flexible - If I found the perfect match I could see going to $2k (am I nuts?).  The purchase won't be immediate as I have other, more pressing needs that I already can't afford.  But, I like to have my cue out a ways.   :D
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on February 28, 2007, 09:21:04 AM
I'll 'opine' on this one :lol: ...but I'll stay away from brand names.. :wink:

Look for universal 'compatibility'. By that, I mean, the amp should be comfortable with low impedence loads (in case you review a 'difficult' speaker); the amp should have a usefully high input impedence (in case you're using certain tubed preamps with high output impedence(s); and the amp should be as tonally neutral as possible...the real trick :P  :!:

WEEZ
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 09:36:37 AM
Why stay away from brand names?  Carl suggested a Pass Labs X150 (great pick, btw).  I'm not so "up" on this category so any help is appreciated.

Thanks though, those are good tips.

Mike
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on February 28, 2007, 10:16:34 AM
Tubes or SS ?
I'd go SS....tubes do change over time, SS is steady.....and steady is what you need for reviews....IMO

Hey Don....Come on, what's your pick ? O'pine a little....:wink:
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 10:22:44 AM
For my purposes, SS definitely.  If I can be dissuaded from my hi-eff leanings, maybe a big tubey would be in my future.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on February 28, 2007, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: "miklorsmith"
For my purposes, SS definitely.  If I can be dissuaded from my hi-eff leanings, maybe a big tubey would be in my future.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.
Having all three...tubes, SS, Digital, would be perfect....a nice variety. 8)
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on February 28, 2007, 10:33:16 AM
Mike, how big is the listening room?
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 10:46:19 AM
Basement room, concrete floor with heavy padding and carpet on the floor, 26X17X9, but acoustically bigger than that.  It has a stairwell next to the left speaker, a closet on the left wall, and a bathroom and large bedroom off the rear wall.  The room is pretty well treated (though not "pretty"  :D )  Overall, the room is very nice but HUNGRY in the bass.

The listening spot is a little less than halfway into the room.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on February 28, 2007, 11:06:27 AM
Well, since Chris coaxed me a little :shock: ....

 8-[

Of all the amplifiers 1) that I have heard; and 2) that fall within the criterea I mentioned above; and 3) are all solid state, (not hybrid)..I would consider McCormack or Belles (Power Modules).

WEEZ
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Black Sand Cable on February 28, 2007, 11:33:40 AM
Although they normally don't get mentioned in "High End" audio discussions, I'm a huge fan of Parasound. I have owned amps that cost 2 and 3 times what the average Parasound is worth.....and I always go back to Parasound.

Great power, high current, built well, designed well (John Curl) and a great company to deal with.

I currently own three - HCA-1500A's and one HCA-1000A and it would take one hell of an amp to make me ditch the HCA-1500A's and like I said I have tried my fair share.

So my two cents, take a look at the HALO A 21 as it just might surprise you. If you can free up some more cash, look at the HALO JC1 mono blocks. At 400W into 8ohms, power will not be a problem with the JC1's!
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Black Sand Cable on February 28, 2007, 11:44:45 AM
I forgot to mention one thing and that is there is actually one amp out there at the moment that has me intrigued but isn't yet available.

Which one you ask? Many moons ago Bill from Morningstar Audio informed me about some mono blocks that EE has coming down the pipe. I'm not normally a fan of mono amps (I have run my Parasound HCA-1500A's as 630W mono blocks and didn't like it...at all)  but these have me intrigued and if the price is right I may just try them out.

I'm also a fan of Butler Audio and have been after two - TDB-5150's but I don't have $6590.00 just laying around! Why two you ask? I'm a fan of vertical bi-amping and have done it for years.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: bpape on February 28, 2007, 12:10:12 PM
Simaudio W-5
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Double Ugly on February 28, 2007, 12:47:04 PM
I really like WEEZ's suggestion (Belles), but if you want to stay away from brand names, I recommend trying a pair of Klaus' extreme monos.  

If you really want to go the extra mile, try to find a pair of BEL 1001 MkVs and run 'em in bridged-mono.  They're near the top of the SS heap, or so I'm told.

Regardless, I think any of the above will satisfy your need for quality SS amplification.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 12:52:41 PM
Actually, I'm trying to lean toward brand names that people are more likely to know/respect.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on February 28, 2007, 01:01:26 PM
Quote from: "miklorsmith"
Actually, I'm trying to lean toward brand names that people are more likely to know/respect.
Good....the more that they can relate to the equipment the better. :wink:
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on February 28, 2007, 01:07:19 PM
John:

Quote
I'm also a fan of Butler Audio and have been after two - TDB-5150's but I don't have $6590.00 just laying around! Why two you ask? I'm a fan of vertical bi-amping and have done it for years.
Good amps....good in high's and mid's....but not the last word in bass.
I do own two Butler 2250's.......and I'm not talking about the Mondial....which is a better amp. :D

                                             Chris
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Carlman on February 28, 2007, 02:26:23 PM
Also, the Butler's are tube-ss hybrid's... not really a choice for ss-only.

BTW, in a room as big as you're describing, I'd definitely consider 200wpc+.  At 2,k that's tough.  The McIntosh MC-252 would be on my shortlist.... I've heard it's more neutral than their others.... maybe worth looking into... and is a good value used... but likely 'in the 2,k's' rather than 2,k....

BTW, what about the Ampzilla?

-C
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on February 28, 2007, 02:28:55 PM
Man, that thing's ugly.  I'd do it if it sounds great though!

More than 200 wpc?!  You gotta be kiddin' me!  I take back what I said about ever being a lo-eff convert.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: bpape on February 28, 2007, 04:41:20 PM
Again, look at the Sim.  It'll handle odd loads, works well with tube pres, is pretty neutral but with a slammin bottom end and it's a brand people who read high end rags know.  Also, IIRC, it will handle both single ended and balanced inputs.

Bryan
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on February 28, 2007, 05:34:13 PM
Mike,

Beauty, as is said, is in the eye of the beholder :!:

WEEZ
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Double Ugly on February 28, 2007, 08:23:05 PM
Quote from: "miklorsmith"
Actually, I'm trying to lean toward brand names that people are more likely to know/respect.
Yeah, I was in a hurry and misread your initial post.  In that case, I'll stick with the Belles and BEL recommendations.  They aren't as well known as some, but excellent amps by virtually all accounts.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Bunky on March 01, 2007, 02:49:47 AM
The Belles Ref 350, McCormack Dna 225,AVA fetvalve 550 or what i use the Odyssey mono extreme SE's are all great performers  :idea:
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: shep on March 01, 2007, 04:42:24 AM
I can't contribute any hands-on experience, seeing as how I remain desperately attatched to the Tripath concept. But the choice is quite vast and you have several considerations running parallel. You want to have an amp that establishes some credibility, hence the known brand, you want one that you are certain will be even-handed with a variety of speakers, that will interact well with the source, one that pleases you..
you want the cake and eat it too! No amp is without its own signature, no two sound alike/ I guess it should be one that you are confident you can hear thru to the speakers in question. Actually this is a hard one two answer! I'm just jawing for the sake...
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: miklorsmith on March 01, 2007, 07:17:34 AM
Hey, I like Tripath too!  In fact, both of my systems are running battery tripath amps right now.  But, these are applications that don't need brute strength.  This search is for a big-time changeup.

Thanks for all the picks, keep 'em comin'!
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Carlman on March 01, 2007, 08:13:24 AM
Quote from: "Bunky"
McCormack Dna 225 :idea:

I would strongly second that one... I *think* it satisfies all of your requirements to a T.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on March 01, 2007, 08:15:35 AM
There's a DNA-125 for $1k on Audiogon right now..
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Black Sand Cable on March 01, 2007, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: "lonewolfny42"
John:

Good amps....good in high's and mid's....but not the last word in bass.

I had the 2250 myself and thought the same thing. Don't me get wrong I loved the amp.....BIG TIME, but even against my old Parasound's, the bass was less then stellar.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on March 01, 2007, 11:13:53 PM
Quote from: "Black Sand Cable"
Quote from: "lonewolfny42"
John:

Good amps....good in high's and mid's....but not the last word in bass.

I had the 2250 myself and thought the same thing. Don't me get wrong I loved the amp.....BIG TIME, but even against my old Parasound's, the bass was less then stellar.
Yep....but I have to say....adding you Silver Ref. power cord did REALLY improve the bass on the Butler. And I did try other cords....yours was the best match. 8)
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: lonewolfny42 on March 01, 2007, 11:31:36 PM
Quote from: "Bunky"
The Belles Ref 350, McCormack Dna 225,AVA fetvalve 550 or what i use the Odyssey mono extreme SE's are all great performers  :idea:
I would agree with Bunky on these amps....good picks. Try to have a listen somewhere.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Imperial on March 02, 2007, 11:44:44 AM
http://www.musicaldesign.com/d-150c.htm

Imperial
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: WEEZ on March 02, 2007, 12:16:20 PM
Hi Imperial,

Yeah, I forgot about John Hillig's "C" model. He builds fine equipment (I use his little D-75B Sig., and it's stupid good). The brand doesn't have much universal recognition, and that's a shame....

WEEZ
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: jrebman on March 08, 2007, 03:25:04 PM
Quote from: "miklorsmith"
Actually, I'm trying to lean toward brand names that people are more likely to know/respect.

AVA FET Valve Ultra 350 or 550?

Never heard them, but I'm intrigued.

-- Jim
Title: try the combo platter
Post by: budburma on April 07, 2007, 04:42:46 AM
imho you can't beat a combo of ss and tubes.  having had lots-o-gear through lots-o-years i have found the relatively moderately priced combo of a plinius p8 and and audio electronics supply ae-3 djh sig is hard to beat for the money.  and, it will drive anything!  including my grand old danes, dynaudio contour 2.8's which are 4 ohm, 84 db and a closed box design.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: bpape on April 07, 2007, 06:24:09 AM
Sounds like we'd get along just fine.  I run:

Korato KVP-20
Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme SE's
Dynaudio Contour 3.3's

I agree wholeheartedly on the tubes up front/solid state in back solution.

Bryan
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: budburma on April 07, 2007, 11:42:17 AM
i have heard the original stratos from odyssey with the 120000 picofarad whatchamacalit upgrade and thought it was a viable bang for buck curve buster...sounded very good with my buddies b&w nautilus 801's.  

the dynaudio 2.8's were a little idiosyncratic in their lineup as they had the esotar tweeter reserved afterwards for the confidence line.  you have to tame them a bit and feed them a high calorie power diet, but they can fill a room with definition and delight.  i have had several other speakers but none seemed to satisfy in the same way.

never heard of korato....i'll have to check out your website....

i currently have the cary slp98p with pope 6sn7gt's up front and sylvania 6sn7w's in the back.  it's oddly a little reserved and missing detail i loved in the aes ae-3 djh sig i had before. definitely quieter, but a little smaller stage.

i thought it was a good idea to consolidate with the on board phono....one of those 'oooops' there goes the baby with the bathwater it's gonna cost some semiserious ducats to get back to where i was, but live and learn again.  it's a great hobby!

so, i am on my back to aes and a modded ear 834p richer in experience.
 and diggin' the tunes!

i trust you're doing the same.
Title: Muscle Amp Suggestions
Post by: Bemopti123 on April 09, 2007, 07:42:00 AM
I second the McCormacks...the 225 being the most common of them all.  According to a Stereophile spec, it produced about 1000 watts per channel at some peak moments.  Another type of amps that do crushing loads with oddles of current are the older Aragons...the 8008BB?  or something like that.  Rated at just 200 watts, but seem to be able to give massive current loads to Infinity Kappa 9s...the legendary crushers and chewers of lesser designed amplifiers.  

Another amp that seem to produce loads of current are the Sunfire Signatures that produce 600 watts per channel at 8 ohms...and can swing it up to 2.4 Kws at 2 ohms?  

There you have it, that is that I have ascertained when I was searching about the best type of amplification for the Kappa 9s.