Decaware

[richidoo]

I have a bad itch  

Not again?!?   Did you use up the whole tube already?

[shep]

How did you guess??? Caught out again. I'm getting too well known around here 

[JLM]

Shep,

If you're interested in the advantages of transmission line design (fast/extended bass that complements speaker roll off with room gain, amp friendly impedance curves, and clear mid/bass from the back wave being directed away from being reflected back through the driver cone's acoustically semi-transparent material) I recommend you go here:

brinesacoustics.com

Bob offers a good lay persons explanation of quarter wave resonators.  Most of his work has been with single driver designs, but the principles apply even if your not into that.  I've read that the theories can be applied to sealed, ported, pipes, even open baffles.  Bob offers panelized kits too if shipping is an issue or you want to DIY.

I've been a fan of transmission lines since the 70's and now we finally have the math to design them.   

[richidoo]

Great info on Brine's site. Thanks JLM!

[shep]

I have a TL. I'm interested in a better one; better drivers, better chassis, better design. Mine are amazing for their price-point but as my system improves I begin to hear their limitations more and more. I really get a good feeling about Decware stuff but obviously can't hear it from here and like I said, the hipping would push them over the edge for my budget. Oh well...one can always dream!

[richidoo]

Here's another take on TL, specifically TQWT, from European designer Troels Gravesen.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JA8008.htm

I lean toward more of a horn design for more bass clarity than a non-horn pure resonance type. I plan to build Troels' 3way version DTQWT-12 this summer.   

[shep]

Im just bone lazy white trash. I don't wanna build anything. Tis the season to BUY!

[mac5u]

Decware has interested me for years but I have never gotten around to trying any of its products.  It is one of those companies that flies below the radar screen for a lot of people.  Decware has its own little zen fest in October but it its occurrence just before RMAF has not made it a priority for me.  However, I am thinking of trying to go this year.  I like the info on the web site (white papers and such) but of all the forums I frequent, it is the most annoying to visit because it loads so very s-l-o-w-l-y.  YMMV.

The Decware forums are pretty quiet but Lon over there seems to have tried much of the Decware equipment and he seems helpful so he might be a good resource for information.  I have been meaning to suggest to Steve Deckert to consider sponsoring a forum over at AC.  I think he would get a lot more visibility but maybe he has all the work he needs.  BTW, it is better to call Steve rather than email him. He will answer your email but it might take days, if not weeks.

One thing that appeals to me about Decware is it is one of the few boutique manufactures that can supply one with equipment for almost the entire audio (and at one time, video) chain:  Amps, integrated, headphone amp/pre-amp, speakers, DAC, CD player, room treatments, ICs and cables, and kits and blueprints.  A lot of audiophiles will disagree but an argument can be made that getting most, if not all, of your gear from the same manufacturer will go a long way to solving synergy issues within one's system.  

Audiophiles who are never happy, or are just the curious sort and have money to burn, will reject this idea out of hand.  For me, I am having a tough time with synergy issues / room issues and as I never seem to be flush with cash, frequent changing out of equipment, even used, is problematic.  So, trying out a system, a small one to start, with geared sourced solely from the same boutique manufacturer, and presumably, voiced to work well with each other (at least with compatible equipment, that is) might be a way to help take some of the edge off the audio nervosa.  

This thread reminds me that someone over on Audiogon bought some of the Decware ERRs in Early December.  Time to prompt him to post his impressions.
 

[opnly bafld]

Speaking of Agon, someone recently listed 2 Decware amps, a pair of MG944s and a pair of ERR radials.
Both pairs of speakers were sold the first day (the amps are still available).




Lin

[mac5u]

Speaking of Agon, someone recently listed 2 Decware amps, a pair of MG944s and a pair of ERR radials.
Both pairs of speakers were sold the first day (the amps are still available).




Lin

Yeah, I saw that too.  Thanks for posting the photo.  I would like to have heard the former owner's set-up.

[JLM]

Shep,

PMC builds transmission line speakers, but my commercial favorite is still I. M. Fried.  Both are pricey.  It irks me that folks make mega excuses for the slightly larger size and complexity of TL versus BR.  The only speakers I ever built were TL woofer cabinets from Fried, and if I can do it - anyone can.

Rich,

Most of those designs from Troels Gravesen are tuned quarter wave tubes or "pipes", not transmission lines (the drivers are at the smaller end with the opening at the larger).  Often named in the 1930's after Voight, but he didn't like particularly them.  The late Terry Cain may have had the most luck with them.  Not particularly efficient for their size and can easily be bass boomy.

mac5u,

I attended the first DecFest that Steve hosted (and one the previous year that Randy hosted).  Tried hard to like his approach and stuff, but in the end his amps weren't enough for my choosen speakers.  Now he offers a "huge" 25 wpc amp with all the bells and whistles that gorgeous, but it's $2500 and I'm still not sure its enough for my speakers.   

[mac5u]

Now he offers a "huge" 25 wpc amp with all the bells and whistles that gorgeous, but it's $2500 and I'm still not sure its enough for my speakers.  

JLM,

Thanks for the info.  The Decware web site states "... they [the 2 watt amps] will drive almost any loudspeaker without problems and with solid bass response.  Because of this design point, it is possible to use our 2 watt amplifiers for late night listening on almost any hi-fi speaker with a most rewarding sound stage".  

When I first read that, I had some doubts but the man has speakers and amps to sell so it’s all taken with a grain of salt.  The website is (except for its load times), a very effective marketing tool.

Steve also writes that "94dB or higher speakers are necessary to get satisfying volumes from the 2 watt amps during the day".
 
Further on we find:  "Even if the speaker is not an ideal match, we're confident that you'll still be able to hear what makes Decware amps such a joy to listen to...  and based on that experience, if you want more volume, dynamics and detail, you will have the right motivation to find more appropriate speakers".

So there you have it:  Get more appropriate speakers.  

Seriously though, we are talking about a manufacturer who espouses using SET amps and full range speaker drivers so within that context he does have a point.

….that’s gorgeous,…

Yes, it is…

[richidoo]

Hey, is that Buddy Valastro's amp?   Candles already lit!



Thanks JLM. Troels lumps TL and TWQT together because they're modeled the same. Owners are saying the bass is anything but boomy due to large efficient bass drivers directly playing the low notes in addition to the high taper, low phase error horn adding to their efficiency, reducing excursion and distortion. Troels says the bass on these is very dry, unlike many TL designs. Hopefully I can build them this summer and find out! Hopefully they won't sound like the Cain speakers I've heard.

Edit: One true, untapered TL that I would love to hear, supposedly very clear bass is Aspen Amplifiers' V-Sonics.

[JLM]

mac5u,

Steve Deckert is a speaker guy who has played (trial and error) with circuit designs for decades.  He did an interesting demo where he used his $3k/pair monoblocks on a $5 car speaker mounted in a very small cabinet and it sounded "amazingly decent".  He pointed out that this is not the way anyone would recommend to proportion your audio budget, but did it to show how much the amp can affect the overall sound.

Yes, you'll get a taste of what one of his little guys will do with average efficiency speakers, but you won't be satisfied.  I had a chance to compare his 6 wpc integrated with my 7 wpc Tripath on my speakers (91 dB/w/m, 8 ohm, 30 - 20,000 Hz) and the Tripath had much more muscle where the Decware amp obviously struggled.  But his 12 wpc did much better.  Go figure.

Rich,

Yes, lots of good stuff comes from down under (off the top of my head thinking also of Ayre, Burson, and Redgum).  Hugh in particular does seem to have his head on straight.

[opnly bafld]

Ayre is from down under Canada?

Ayre Acoustics, Inc.
2300-B Central Ave.
Boulder, Colorado 80301
USA