Author Topic: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.  (Read 19948 times)

poloman

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B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« on: September 29, 2009, 07:47:37 AM »
I have the B&W Matrix 802s3 in my main system.  Yes on the dedicated soundanchor stands.  They are great speakers and I wondered if anyone else has a pair.  What you have driving them.  How they're set up.  Did you do any crossover mods, or use after market xovers such as the Maughan box.  Love to talk about these babies.  I have a Classe 25 driving them with an Audio Research LS7 Tube pre. Let's discuss.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 01:43:17 AM »
I own a pair of B&W 802 f Specials, bought new in 1984.  I took a trip to England and the Continent with the main intention of buying the speakers,

The f Specials are similar to yours with the same drive complement, kevlar mid, 2 6.5" woofs and the ice cream cone tweet.  The main difference is in the cabinet design.  Mine are acoustic suspension with a traditional internal cabinet for the woofs.  Yours, of course have the Matrix inside the cabinet and are ported.  I believe there is also a slight difference in the tweeters and likely some differences in the crossover, although I'd be hard pressed to talk about them.

My speakers also sit atop Sound Anchors...imperative for physical stability and performance.  When I added the sound anchors soundstage got much taller and deeper.  It was as iff the speakers were putting out sound form in front of me and beside me.

Oddly, the only other tweak I've done was to replace the original tweets with the Matrix 1 series tweets.  I thought there was a great improvement, although, again, I couldn't tell you what is different about the two series' tweeters.

I drive them with a B&K ST202+ amplifier, a basic American big balls amp (200/ch) that was competed in its day with the Adgom GFA555  and Sumo Andromeda, Carver 1.0, and the "high end" Japanese amps from Denon and Pioneer.  I felt the B&K was the best bang for the buck...still do.  I bought the amp in 1989 and still have it.  If I were to replace a component, however, the amp would be the thing.  I like the Classe, but would be afraid it doesn't have enough oomph to wake up my speakers.  Your version is a couple db's more efficient because of that port.  Also the Classe is a very smooth, polite amp. I'm not sure I'd enjoy the match with the oh-so-polite B&W sound.  I heard an AKSA amp that I thoroughly enjoyed and felt would be a great match.  I also have always had a soft spot for Threshold Amps (but keep in mind I was in the hifi business throughout the '80s and early 90's...it's where my hifi heart and soul remain).

My pre is an Audible Illusions Modulus 2D (also from 1989/90) and I love it.  It's quirky (2 volume knobs...no balance) and eats 6DJ8s like candy, but it is smooth and silky and has never given me an ounce of problems.  I really like how it tempers the amp and lets the speakers sing.

I have considered a mod to the crossover if for no other reason than the capacitors are 25 years old.  I don't know enough about the mods (or current xovers for that matter) to act on it at all. (Finances are another factor).

I have also considered a few times downsizing to a smaller, more contemporary speaker.  The 802's on Sound Anchors have a relatively low WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor); in fact my wife refers to my hifi as "The Other Woman." I haven't found any speakers I like as much as the 802s and I've had them longer than I've had my wife (only a couple weeks...we started dating right after I came back for Europe).  Also, I've never had an argument with my speakers and they have rarely disappointed me, so for now, they will stay.

In my experience, the best tweak for the speakers isn't really a speaker tweak at all.  Properly setting up the speaker relative to your room will maximize its performance beter than any tweak or mod.  It's tedious (a few millimeters can make all the difference) and doesn't have the "oooooh coool" factor of mods or new components, but the results can be startling.  There are lots of experts here at AN.  They can give you instructions on proper placement.  If you are in the Raleigh area, there are frequent get-togethers where you can meet other members in the flesh.  This is an excellent group of folks and the are very giving of their time and expertise.

Other than suggesting a room tweak, I'm not much help on mods etc.  I can give you a piece of advice:  do not blow or damage your woofers.  The woofers and their parts are no longer made.  A couple years ago one of my woofs was physically damaged and it took everything I had to perssade B&W of America to get the last woofer recone kits from the parent in England.  There are no more to be had.  If you break one, the only way to fix it (from what B&W told me) is salvage one from an old pair.

Comments?  Glad to have another 802 fan at AN.  I don't feel so alone anymore.

Offline Carlman

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 05:55:58 AM »
It's so nice to read 'the story' so eloquently written.  (I know Allen and he's shared much of this with me in the past.)  I've tried convincing Allen to do various things on these speakers for a long time.. but I've heard them also.. and they sound really good.  So, there really is nothing to change with the speakers, maybe the gear around it, though.  We compared them to some Von Shweikert VR1's and the 802's just tromped them in every way.. except looks of course.  The 802's look like brown robots from the 70's to me. ;)

The crossovers probably could use some fresh caps at this point and you could replace them with like values and use good brands.  I don't think that will cost you too much.   I could probably find a used AKSA, good tube preamp, and phono pre that bests the AI/ST202 in every way but I'll need you to save up a little. ;)  But not as much as you might think.

-C
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poloman

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2009, 06:00:19 PM »
Hey Allen.........

Before I moved up to the Classe' I was using a B&K EX-442 , Sonata series.  Thats the model up from the 202.  200/ch but dual mono.  That sounded great but the classe has more oomph!  More authority but yet more transparent.  Im happy with it.  Great wide soundstage too.  But thats also because of the B&W's.

I did have to change out a bass driver on one speaker and that was a night mare that I'll tell you all about next time.  Suffice it to say I had to make some parts to screw the driver back in.  The method of screw and nut anchors they use is terrible.  And the crossover wire to the inside, on the bottom plate, is so short its almost impossible to put it back together.  Thats another mod I'll have to do another time when I'm ambitious.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2009, 07:42:34 PM »
Perhaps my impression of the Classe is completely incorrect...I always thought of them as smooth and mellow, without much oomph.   I am very familiar with the B&K EX442. It's the dual mono version of the ST202, and oomph is the exact word I'd use to describe it. So the Classe must be a much better piece than I thought. 

You remind me that the internal wiring and the binding posts on the 802s leave much to be desired.  If I decided to mod the x-overs, I certainly would upgrade the connectors and internal (should I say "infernal") wiring.

Offline richidoo

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2009, 08:23:18 PM »
I love Classe amps. Everytime I've heard it always impressed. B&W owns Classe, so they should go well together. They also own Rotel.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2009, 07:16:32 AM »
I kew about the owning Rotel, had no idea about Classe.  It seems there is a lot about Classe I don't know....

Offline rollo

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2009, 07:47:15 AM »
Well for a while when the SS guys were going for neutrality the Classe as well as others failed . The older DR series were the ticket. Now they are back again with the sound. The price of admission has increased as well . Bummer. If I owned B&W 802s the amp list would be as follows.

1. Mc Intosh  [ mucho money, Ecstasy]]
2. Classe [ a match in heaven]
3. Rotel Mono blocks  [silly good]
4. Odyssey Stratos mono blocks [ best buy]
Last but not least are Joule Electra Rite of Passage. The ultimate tubed amp for B&W speaker amp but not inexpensive about $25,000. If you want to save a little :rofl: then the  ultimate SS solution are the Dartzeels. heaven I tell ya Heaven.
   Now for us real people try finding one of the big boys used or go right to the Rotel or Odyssey with a tubed Pre such as Audible Illusions or another rich sounding one [ CJ].



charles
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
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poloman

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2009, 01:28:23 PM »
Well as Rollo knows, all too well, I have a DR version of the Classe' 25.  Its a match made in heaven.  If I was to go for tubes I would try a big Audio Research.  Solid, I like Levinson.  But cant afford him.  Im very Happy.  I was at Inovative audio yesterday listening to the 802 Diamonds with SS, and was not as impressed as listening to my own.  The only thing that impressed me there were the Big Wilson Maxx's

poloman

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 01:38:55 PM »
B&W owns Classe and Rotel.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 03:51:26 PM »

I interviewed for a job at Innovative Audio about a thousand years ago.  It was also the place I first heard the 802s back in 1983.

Are they still in Brooklyn Heights?

The day I interviewed there, I saw an enormously fat woman walk past me, completely naked, even barefoot.  I didn't want to do a double take.  It helped convince me I didn't want to work within the borders of the city. 

poloman

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 03:58:55 PM »
Is that the womens pic on your  profile ? LOL  holding a hair dryer?     Inovative closed the Bklyn store they're near Bloomingdales in Midtown

Offline rollo

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 08:52:15 AM »

I interviewed for a job at Innovative Audio about a thousand years ago.  It was also the place I first heard the 802s back in 1983.

Are they still in Brooklyn Heights?

The day I interviewed there, I saw an enormously fat woman walk past me, completely naked, even barefoot.  I didn't want to do a double take.  It helped convince me I didn't want to work within the borders of the city. 


 But she was from NJ,



charles
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lonewolfny42

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 09:02:31 AM »
Quote
Are they still in Brooklyn Heights?

Their now in Manhattan....East 58th Street.

Offline allenzachary

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Re: B&W 802 series 3. Getting the most.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2009, 09:21:32 AM »
Nah...She had Noo Yawk written all over her.  (not literally, thankfully).  It was ME who was from New Jersey.