AudioNervosa

Group Therapy => NC Triangulation => Topic started by: hometheaterdoc on March 15, 2012, 07:17:40 AM

Title: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: hometheaterdoc on March 15, 2012, 07:17:40 AM
Not that I'm volunteering the guy or anything :)  :rofl:

Just a heads up that the upgrade board to take my PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC to MKII status finally shipped out and should be here soon.  It usually doesn't play nice with Carl's Piega speakers and other electronics as they're not a good match.. but I'll be curious to see if the new version changes that...

Depending on when this is held, I may or may not be able to attend :)  But I'll contribute three pieces to the comparison:

1) PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC (PWD) MKII
2) Abbingdon Music Research (AMR) DP-777 DAC with remote switchable 16 bit NOS DAC or 24bit high rez DAC
3) Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold DAC with Voltikus power supply

All three are very, very, very good pieces, but do offer different perks, features, and drawbacks... all of them are now around the same price, which unfortunately is not inexpensive...

Let me know whenever the date is set and I'll arrange the long distance shipping of the items to Carl's place ;)
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Inscrutable on March 15, 2012, 09:41:06 AM
+1 from the cheap seats  :thumb:
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 15, 2012, 10:41:09 AM
I think he's waiting for me to finish building his DAC before scheduling it.
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: djdube525 on March 15, 2012, 11:17:19 AM
FWIW... if the timing works out... the EE MiniMax Plus from Bill is headed to NC as we speak... could be another to add to the mix.

Dave
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: satfrat on March 15, 2012, 11:51:55 AM
FWIW... if the timing works out... the EE MiniMax Plus from NC is headed to NC as we speak... could be another to add to the mix.

Dave

You should have the Plus friday Dave, can you hold out for 1 more day?  :thumb:

Look forward to hearing about some Dac impressions & comparisons.  8)

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: jianghai on March 15, 2012, 10:47:45 PM
I can bring some cheap stuff if people are interested:

Peachtree DAC.IT
Fiio D3
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 16, 2012, 10:07:09 AM
All DAC's are welcome, and thanks for starting this thread, Shane.  :thumb:

I did not realize the EE mini+ would be here so soon.  But, Dave needs to spend some time with it.. and if there are others here that want to try it in their systems alone, that would be a good idea to give me a little more time. 

The meet will likely be on a Saturday afternoon... just need to figure out which one.  But.. depending on my wife and son, might be on a Sunday... I will update as soon as I know.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling, looking forward to this! :)

-C
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: bpape on March 16, 2012, 11:43:27 AM
Sounds like a blast.

Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: mdconnelly on March 16, 2012, 12:29:59 PM
Sounds like an awesome time!  I'm thinking it may be time to bring back the Oracle Pre/DAC ... kinda like a Rocky VI movie.   

Just pick a day that's not a big NCAA tourney day (unless, of course, the mancave will be dedicated to bball!)
Title: Re: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 17, 2012, 04:47:38 PM
I'll have a Berkeley Alpha DAC (http://www.berkeleyaudiodesign.com/) for the next month, original version.
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 19, 2012, 01:41:29 PM
OK, so, March 31st is the earliest I can do the DAC comparison.  I am very tempted to do it on April 1st... but no one would believe us! ;)

It'll need to start late afternoon, 4:00 and go on until it ends.  As it gets closer, I'll decide on food and such.

Please PM or email me the DAC you are bringing, the web link, and/or the specifications (including number and type of inputs, outputs, etc.)  I'm putting together a little booklet of the DAC's we'll hear and have a place to write notes.

We are up to like 7 DAC's so, probably not a good idea to add any more.  I don't know how we'll switch between them all...

Thanks,
Carl
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: jianghai on March 19, 2012, 03:01:13 PM
Just FYI, there's a Head-Fi/The Vinyl Show headphone/turntable/vinyl event that day in Charlotte:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/562582/3-31-12-canfest-iii-headphone-event-charlotte-nc-with-turntable-and-vinyl-show (http://www.head-fi.org/t/562582/3-31-12-canfest-iii-headphone-event-charlotte-nc-with-turntable-and-vinyl-show)

I will likely go, depending on how early I want to wake up on Saturday. Regardless I can bring either/both/neither my DACs to our gathering if people are interested.

I know it's controversial/unscientific, but it could be interesting to do somewhat of a single blind listening test.

J
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 19, 2012, 06:06:25 PM
Most of the time we find a moment to do a little blind testing where I'm switching something and no one knows what I'm actually switching. (SBT)  Sometimes I forget what's what so it becomes DBT and I have to look and see at some point.   :shock:

Blind testing takes some real focus and you have to hit the moment just right at a larger gathering.  It's not like we'll be doing blind testing for long... It's too hard to keep that kind of focus for long.

But hopefully we'll have a few moments where we're really trying to dissect 'what it is we're hearing' without the coloration of equipment-knowledge/expectations.  Other times I find it's easier to hear what the differences are knowing what it is making them... Like, ah, that's right, that tube DAC inverts phase... THAT's what that is... etc. ;)

I will likely run this event like we have in the past, where there is a bunch of fun and open-swapping but at some point, we'll do the actual comparisons.  Probably sets of 3 or 4 DAC's.  Shane's 3, then the 3 I have... Then one more set of visiting DAC's.  That is a LOT of comparing.  This will be a DAC-off. ha.

I will probably do something where we each pick a song, but you only get 30 seconds.  So, choose 30 seconds of a song you like for this event.  That way we can actually get through all the DAC's... and not get terribly bored of the songs.  (Peter Gabriel, anyone? ;) )

-C
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: stereofool on March 19, 2012, 06:53:50 PM
I'd like to make the DACoff, but I would also like to attend Canfest III.

There's not going to be many more chances to be around Joe Grado...what a brilliant man  :thumb:.

Looks like I may have to do some finagaling here  :roll:.
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Inscrutable on March 20, 2012, 03:43:51 AM
Quote
I'd like to make the DACoff, but I would also like to attend Canfest III
Similar thoughts, plus I am supposed to facilitate the  boat's migratory return to the sea. Not sure how it will all shake out.

Steve & jhianghai, if it were just CAVE, it runs 9-4, and you'd make it back to Carl's by 4 leaving at 2 or so. That's what I am planning if I can deal with the boat issue.

Always seems to be the case - multiple things to do, or nothing  :duh
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 20, 2012, 04:37:15 AM
If we meet on April 1st that would avoid CANfest conflict.
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Inscrutable on March 20, 2012, 04:45:10 AM
Also would be much better for me, but I think Carl was just joking about April 1st and needs to do it Saturday.
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: hometheaterdoc on March 20, 2012, 09:51:14 AM
Carl, you know about my three contributions....  The PS Audio MKII kit arrived for the PWD... it's installed and breaking in now...   I'll run it 24/7 from here on out to get some time on it....

I'm officially at "I can't commit until the event itself for fear that i may be at a hospital at that time".  So I'll get some or all of these to you this week so you have them for the event, whenever it may be... 

Do you need longer cables so you don't have to try to stick stuff into the rack and climb behind it to hook/unhook?
 
Title: Re: March 31st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 20, 2012, 05:58:28 PM
I can make it the 1st, not a problem.  I didn't realize anything else was going on... Just wasn't sure if anyone would take our results seriously since it was April fools.  :-P

So, I'll change this topic to reflect that it'll be on the 1st...  Probably early afternoon, 1:00 PM or so.  Will update shortly.

I'll get the DAC's from Shane Thursday this week.  Congrats and good luck with the baby and the wife, Shane!

-C

Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: stereofool on March 21, 2012, 05:03:51 PM
I can come either day after all  :roll:. SO, whatever day it best for everyone...I will be there  8).

Turns out that my May 31 schedule is already booked too late, to be able to make it to Charlotte before they close  :(.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 21, 2012, 06:19:28 PM
Steve, CANfest is March 31, not May 31.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/562582/3-31-12-canfest-iii-headphone-event-charlotte-nc-with-turntable-and-vinyl-show (http://www.head-fi.org/t/562582/3-31-12-canfest-iii-headphone-event-charlotte-nc-with-turntable-and-vinyl-show)

Hopefully that means you can still hit it!
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: stereofool on March 22, 2012, 03:02:58 AM
DUH! I meant March...and unfortunately I'm already booked that Saturday...so I'm stuck in the office  :(.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Bigfish8 on March 22, 2012, 04:32:04 AM
Hi Guys:

I just stopped by the site to see what is going on!  I would love to make it to Carl's, if nothing more, than to say hello to all of you guys.  We are going to the Eastern Shore next weekend and depending on what time we get back to Raleigh I might stop by for a hello.

Ken
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 22, 2012, 06:27:48 AM
Hey Ken! That will be great. Looking forward to seeing you.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 22, 2012, 07:34:08 AM
Yay, Ken!  Would definitely be awesome to see you... Lots to hear here... be careful, the bug may bite. ;)

Shane dropped off a couple of DAC's this morning... I'll get them playing downstairs soon and get it all burning in.  I'm trying to get this fairly-well organized so we can actually hear everything.

Should be fun. :)

-C
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: mdconnelly on March 22, 2012, 09:29:01 AM
Carl, April 1st afternoon makes it a lot easier for me as well.   Let me know if you'd like to see/hear the Oracle DAC/Pre again.  Sounds like you've already got your hands full of DACs.

It'll be great to see everyone again!  Maybe Shane won't have yet entered into the realm of parenting quite yet... Everything changes then... far more need to sit and immerse yourself in music, far less chance of doing so :rofl:

Looking forward to it!
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: djdube525 on March 22, 2012, 10:30:01 AM
The EE MiniMax Plus came in on Tuesday. 

I kept missing the FedEx guy who needed a signature... why they kept trying to deliver after 8PM is beyond me.

Anyway... I'd be happy to drop it off after the weekend Carl.

Dave
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: satfrat on March 22, 2012, 01:47:58 PM
The EE MiniMax Plus came in on Tuesday. 

I kept missing the FedEx guy who needed a signature... why they kept trying to deliver after 8PM is beyond me.

Anyway... I'd be happy to drop it off after the weekend Carl.

Dave

I don't understand Fed-Ex's need for a signature delivery Dave. I have the slip right here clearly showing that I checked off the No Signature Required box as you had requested. Guess the bottom line is you received the Plus in 1 piece, all is good and I finally have some peace of mind in the matter. I hope you'll enjoy this EE Dac Plus in your system as much as I did in mine. Enjoy!  :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Bill O'Connell on March 22, 2012, 03:16:52 PM
I know Carl is not a big lover of the Mullard tube, maybe he should get the DAC that has the OPA2107 dual with OPA627 singles rather than the OPA2604/OPA827 that I believe you have Dave.
 What do you think Robin? Will it be to much with that Mullard tube in there for the Health Freak aka 2.37 minute of fame guy? :rofl:
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Inscrutable on March 22, 2012, 03:31:30 PM
This is working out great. Cannot wait to check out the old new room and this stellar array of DACs. And of course re/connecting with more of the motley crew.

Mike, not sure I ever heard the Oracle over at Shane's so I for one would be interested, but as you say we already have an embarrassment of riches.

Perhaps it is stated above but in what form should we bring any music files ... Are we dumping to a computer regardless and playing from there?
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 22, 2012, 04:53:23 PM
Bill, whatever DAC or DAC's get here I can compare.. probably fun to hear both iterations side by side.  I have some other tubes that would work also.  6dj8's and 12ax7's... not sure which it uses... but i have some of both... and whatever I don't have, someone else will have.  As to opamps, smooth and laid back works well for me.

I plan to group these DAC's in 'families'... chip technology and price will be leading factors.  So, group A might be 5,k DAC's, group B might be Saber DAC's, Group C, older technology.. just don't know yet... DAC's are officially coming in, though...

I'd like to have the Berkely from Rich, the Oracle from Mike or Tim.  Right now, I for sure have:
3 DAC's from Shane,
2 DAC's from me,
Rich's Berkely?
EE Minimax Plus (Dave), and ..... ??

That's 7 already.  So, 2 more is probably enough... but we could do 5 more and have 4 A-B-C comparisons... that's a LOT of comparing though.. more than I think I've ever done... which is likely going to be too much.  It can be done if everyone is really interested and stays focused.

I do plan on having 'cheat sheets' printed for this meet where you'll have some standard categories to rate... so, doing the comparison and collecting the results will be easier than usual.

Any help with the administrative side is appreciated. :)

-C
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: satfrat on March 22, 2012, 08:44:50 PM
What do you think Robin? Will it be to much with that Mullard tube in there for the Health Freak aka 2.37 minute of fame guy? :rofl:

Dunno Bill, guess we'll just have to wait and see what Dave thinks. He always has the stock tube to fall back on. I will say after the results of my 1st demo opportunity I had with the original EE Dac that also had a 50's Mullard (totally overpowered my system with a too much of a good thing feeling), it came as a complete surprise to me that the Plus with the Mullard you so graciously sent me worked so well in system,,,,, too well actually.  :duh :lol: :thumb:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: djdube525 on March 23, 2012, 02:45:23 AM

I don't understand Fed-Ex's need for a signature delivery Dave. I have the slip right here clearly showing that I checked off the No Signature Required box as you had requested.

Cheers,
Robin

No worries whatsoever Robin! Life's too short to worry about a little delay. :)
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Inscrutable on March 23, 2012, 02:47:31 AM
Well, if we are into cheap and old I can help with that!  :lol:
Have the RAM modded LiteDAC-Ah if we care. Just going to be totally outclassed by these other beauties. My deal on an Oppo 95 fell through, so not sure if I'll have that or not.
That said I am happy just dealing with the good stuff without a direct comparison to older/cheaper and glaring reinforcement of how much better it really is ... having the AMR over here was illuminating/disappointing enough  :(
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: stereofool on March 30, 2012, 05:39:14 PM
Carl,

Are we still on for April 1, and what time??

Anything that you want us to bring?
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 30, 2012, 06:03:15 PM
Sorry, but the Berkeley Alpha DAC won't arrive here in time for the G2G.

I'm not buying it, just swapping with a friend so he can audition my Buffalo 2.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 31, 2012, 04:48:48 AM
We are definitely on for tomorrow. 
What time? Starts at 2:30, ends when it's over.
I'll be working out the logistics of swapping tonight so it is efficient tomorrow.
What would really help:
If you can bring 1 or 2 30-second snippets of songs you like on a USB drive for the A/B/C DAC comparisons. 

Right now I know for sure I have:
The 3 DAC's Shane mentioned earlier,
The 'Custom' that Rich made me
The Eastern Electric Plus which Dave is bringing. 
Oracle?
Others?

I can leave out my Scott Nixon DAC or add it in if someone wants it specifically compared.

I should've done a poll to see what people wanted to hear... oh, hindsight... sigh. ;)

Please email or PM me with any DAC's you are bringing, with their link and/or specs so I can add it to our comparison sheet.

Thanks,
Carl
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: mdconnelly on March 31, 2012, 08:06:54 AM
I can be by early (2:30-4pm or so) but unfortunately, have family to deal with after that.   I'd be glad to bring the Oracle by for that time if it would help.  It would just need to be on the early listen list.

Carl, let me know your thoughts.  Either way, I'll see you Sunday afternoon!
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on March 31, 2012, 12:44:28 PM
I'm planning to cook burgers and brats.  My backup plan is to order take-out.

So, here is my recommended list:
Chips
Potato salad
Pasta salad
Green leafy salad
Quinoa
Drinks... Beer, wine, fruit punch, etc.
Dessert item(s) ?

I'm not saying you need to bring any of this... nor do I know how many are coming... so, don't feel obligated and don't worry about bringing enough, I'm sure there will be plenty.

Thanks and looking forward to it.. should be big fun! :)

-C

PS Mike,  I'll let you know later tonight/tomorrow morning if I'll have everything ready to compare early-on in the day.


Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on March 31, 2012, 01:39:49 PM
Big fun!
 :yay2:

I'll being the insalata, with my son's homemade balsamic vinaigrette.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: mdconnelly on March 31, 2012, 02:10:44 PM
No worries Carl!   My problem is that my family (kids, their families & grandkids) decided to call for a last minute cookout.  I explained I have far more important things to do  :rofl: but you can imagine how that goes.  And, to be honest, I haven't seen the grandkids in a few weeks - they've probably already doubled in size again.

In any event, I hope to make it by for a while in the afternoon.  I'll bring some  :beer:
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: lonewolfny42 on April 01, 2012, 01:18:28 PM
Drinks... Beer, wine, fruit punch, etc.

Hmmmm.....I wonder if Carl will be making that special GREEN SHAKE for everyone today ?  :?
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on April 01, 2012, 05:43:43 PM
We had a nice little gathering today and had the 'cream of the crop' of DAC's to audition.  Thanks to everyone for working with me to compare what we could.  

We ended up with 5 DAC's to compare:

Shane brought the 3 mentioned earlier:
1) PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC (PWD) MKII
2) Abbingdon Music Research (AMR) DP-777 DAC with remote switchable 16 bit NOS DAC or 24bit high rez DAC
3) Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold DAC with Voltikus power supply

I had:
The Buffalo DAC with special output transformer that Rich built for me.

Dave brought:
The EE Minimax Plus DAC with dual OPA2604's and single OPA827's on Brown Dog adaptors.  (We listened in SS mode without a tube for most of our listening.)

There wasn't a bad DAC in the bunch.

For me, I love how the Buffalo that Rich put together sounds..  I like the liquidity and rich tone of its sound.  There is intimacy, good punch, and detail.  It's the kind of DAC you listen to for a little while and say, 'yeah, that's nice'.. then after a while, you can't stop.  All the details are there, just not splashy at all, kind of laid back but not rolled off.

I was also a bit surprised at how much I liked the Anteloupe/Zodiac/Voltastica DAC.  Very beautiful presentation with lots of air and a space in the soundstage.  It seemed to interpret bits as music quite well, especially in the mids and highs.. but felt a little lean in the midbass compared to the others.

The AMR is a nice blend of detail and the loveliness of music.  In today's comparison it missed a little impact (punch?) for me, maybe because I'm used to that in the Buffalo.  It is a near perfect DAC.  So, it is a nitpick.  But, at its cost, I don't expect much compromise.  It is musical and non fatiguing. Detailed and a little lush sounding.

The EE is the surprise value of the group.  For a fourth or fifth the price of some of the other DAC's, it really held its own.  The midbass and deep bass were excellent like the Sabre DAC has proven to do well in both.  The differences were more in the mids and highs.  There was nothing 'wrong' with it... just the other DAC's had a little more meat or resolution in those areas.  I didn't notice much 'etch' or 'digititis' in this version, pretty musical.  It's an excellent DAC, you can't go wrong with it.  I did try this DAC with a tube in it towards the end of the night and I honestly don't hear much of a difference with it in or out.  

That's what I remember for now.  If others chime in with their thoughts, it might remind me of stuff I forgot.

-C

PS, no green smoothies this time!  I had one for breakfast, though. ;)
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: djdube525 on April 01, 2012, 06:09:41 PM
I apologize for heading on out without saying bye to you Carl. I went outside looking for you and Rich, and y'all must have snuck on in and went back downstairs. In any event, thank you so much for the invite! I got a chance to hear some fantastic DACs. I even made the remark that the bad thing (also good) thing about these comparisons, is you end up nit picking the equipment, and at the end of the day, I would be more than happy with all of these.

One tidbit I found interesting. The AMR in non over sampling mode sounded wonderful - in fact I liked it the most... I could see myself listening to music all day to that set-up. However, when switched to over sampling mode... I would put it at the bottom of the pack. That may sound harsh... I think it's a testament to all the DACs being fantastic.

The EE MiniMax also changed quite a bit with the source cable swap. When paired with the Superconductor 3s, the bottom end tightened up a bit as compared to the other cable (ultra conductor 2s?). Nice little guy... especially when you factor in price.

Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: allenzachary on April 01, 2012, 06:34:42 PM
Wish I could have been there.  Instead, I was in Savannah, GA attending a wedding with my wife.  It was my first trip to Savannah.  What a great place to visit!

My question is how did/would the DACs compare with vinyl?
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on April 01, 2012, 06:50:23 PM
Thank God he spared us the green slime!  :rofl:

Nice cookout instead... Thanks Carl, Christine and Luke for hosting the G2G, cooking and entertaining.

My favorite DAC was Shane's Antelope Zodiac Gold with Volticus power supply. That thing is seriously awesome. It is very intense but still sounds natural and very refined. bigfish has one of these too. Wicked! I'd be interested to see how it wears over a longer period.

I also liked Carl's Buffalo2 DAC with passive transformer output (I built that one for him.) It has an extremely natural sounding tone that I love on acoustic instruments. It does not attack you with treble detail, bass punch, "big sound" or any other enhancement, but all the detail you could want is there if you point your attention to it. If you want the big picture you just zoom out and it doesn't follow you. You don't have to exert any energy in defense.     After hearing the other super-DACs in comparison to the Buffalo, I want to experiment with active output stages to try to increase the drive and presence a little while preserving the natural timbre of the chip and transformer. I think there is more on the table from this chip.

The PSAudio had a big sound, plump but very enjoyable. I'd like to listen to some familiar music on it to learn more about its character.

I liked the EE DAC. It has good clarity and presence in the upper frequencies and midrange. The Sabre32's naturalness of the timbre was evident. Highs a little forward for me, but it's subtle and might be just caps? The bass was not as clear as the highs but it is musical and lends to the overall good feeling. Like Dave said, swapping in some ICs that cost more than the DAC improved the bass noticeably. I think this DAC is an excellent value, and a good improvement over the 1st version. I don't know how much of the improvement is due to Bill's upgrade opamps, but it's a very nice sound.

The AMD didn't do much for me. Everyone else loved it, so sue me.  :rofl:  The NOS mode sounded boring to me. The oversampling mode was much better to my ears, more life. But even that didn't do for me what the Antelope did, nor did it feel as genuine and natural timbre as the Sabres. It was probably the best overall well rounded player, with minimal faults, but also no particularly memorable traits. That reason alone explains why it is so popular. Shane said "like butter!" Again, I'd want to listen to some solo harpsichord, or big band jazz or Fennel marches on it to peek under the skirt. Shit that nobody else would want to hear.  :rofl:

I wish I could have stayed later and heard each of these great DACs in more detail. It was a truly happening vibe with lots of love in the air. Happy kitties, music, baby, friends, cookies, weather, very memorable. Thanks!
Rich
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: richidoo on April 01, 2012, 06:57:44 PM
If the gallery worked, I'd upload some pictures...   :-P

I guess I'll have to attach them. But in two years they will disappear!  #-o

Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Barry (NJ) on April 01, 2012, 07:45:40 PM
If the gallery worked, I'd upload some pictures...   :-P

I guess I'll have to attach them. But in two years they will disappear!  #-o



Rich, get a Flickr account, or some other photo hosting service, and then you can just embed the images with the img tags ;)
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: stereofool on April 02, 2012, 03:58:56 AM
First, thanks to Carl & Christine for opening their house, to us, once again. It was really great to see you guys again!!!

The good news...all of the DAC's sounded very good. The bad news...price of admission keeps increasing  :(.

Carl & I wound up going back down and listening to the DAC's with more concentration, and a couple of specific tracks that I drug off of a flash drive.

My current DAC (PS Audio DACIII) was far surpassed this evening. I heard details, articulation, soundstage and space, in those tracks, which I have never heard before.

I liked what I heard from all of the DACs...so it boils down to a matter of degrees and personal 'sonic' preferences, as to which one would be a best choice.

EE Minimax: With/without tube...threw a spacious soundstage, articulated details well, good treble and midrange, but seemed to have somewhat bloated bass.

AMR: This is a great sounding DAC (non-oversampling setting)...very articulate, very wide soundstage, nice smooth sound, good performance across the audible spectrum. In it's oversampling mode...still sounded very good, but to my ears had a bit of 'digital' tizziness that would fatigue my ears, fairly quickly.

Antelope w Voltikus: Another great sounding DAC...very wide soundstage, great detail and articulation, great performance across the audible spectrum. The one aspect that would possibly make hours of listening less enjoyable, was its more forward presentation...kind of in-your-face!

Carl's Buffalo II per Richidoo: I think that I prefered this DAC, marginally...it had a spacious soundstage, good detail, and performed well across the spectrum. Over all the above, I felt that this one gave a 'smoother' more naturally musical presentation, and I feel that I could listen to it for hours at a time, without fatigue.

Good to see all who showed up today...I look forward to our next time.
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Bill O'Connell on April 02, 2012, 05:51:47 AM
For what it is worth, the 2604/827 combo is known for big phat bass and lower midrange grunt.

 The OPA2107/OPA627 combo is the more articulate and tauter bass recommend. :thumb:
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: mfsoa on April 02, 2012, 06:08:17 AM
Quote
For what it is worth, the 2604/827 combo is known for big phat bass and lower midrange grunt.

 The OPA2107/OPA627 combo is the more articulate and tauter bass recommend.

I only have the original DAC and haven't heard the 2604 so this is a guess:  For me, the 627 had a much phatter bass w/ more midrange grunt than the 827, used in the SS position, so I'm guessing that your description of the sound, esp if it affects both tube and SS outs, is more due to the 2604 vs 2107 than the 827 vs. 627.

Bill, have you tried the 2107/827? I'm using this now to good effect in my system.

-Mike
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Bill O'Connell on April 02, 2012, 06:40:46 AM
Mike,
 I haven't as I've been using the Dexa discrete's for the past 10 days or so trying to get a handle on their sonic signature.
 The moment I threw them in my first though was analog top end. :thumb:
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on April 02, 2012, 07:29:59 AM
Just a quick disclaimer... My room is not perfect. (yes, even after all the effort) There is a bit of a peak or resonance that makes all bass get a little boomy or wooly at times.. I am addressing that soon... not sure how.

-C
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: machinehead on April 02, 2012, 09:30:39 AM
Nice! Sounds like it was fun. What speakers are those?
M
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on April 02, 2012, 12:48:36 PM
Good question... I should've listed my system up front...
I'm using Piega C8 Limited's with external crossovers designed by Rick Craig.  
Preamp is a Belles 21A with the cap upgrade he offers.
Amp is a McIntosh MC402.
Cabling was JPS Superconductor 3 IC's and JPS power cords for the most part... Otherwise, I was using Black Sand's top PC's.
Transport is a small PC with an Atom motherboard;
Digital output was a USB -> SPDIF Hiface (the direct plug-in kind)
Room size is about 15x28, lots of treatment.
-Carl
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Bigfish8 on April 02, 2012, 06:13:10 PM
Guys:

I am disappointed I was unable to make it to the G2G yesterday.  We did not get back to Raleigh until 6:30.  It sounds like I missed a really good time!
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: jianghai on April 02, 2012, 09:42:21 PM
Yeah sounds like a great time, wish I could have been there!
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: djdube525 on April 03, 2012, 02:23:00 AM
AMR: This is a great sounding DAC (non-oversampling setting)...very articulate, very wide soundstage, nice smooth sound, good performance across the audible spectrum. In it's oversampling mode...still sounded very good, but to my ears had a bit of 'digital' tizziness that would fatigue my ears, fairly quickly.

Phew... I wasn't the only one (digital tizziness). I thought I was going crazy. Well, I guess I still could be...  :lol:
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: Carlman on April 03, 2012, 08:28:20 AM
I finally have everything back together in the soundroom... Now I can use everything again! woohoo!  I even hooked up an OTA digital HD tuner.  :)

I also swapped tubes from black plates to gray plates.  That cleaned up the bass a little and opened the upper mids a bit.  A little cleaner sounding overall in fact.  Would've been a better tube for comparing... but I ran out of time trying to get that sort of thing right.  The tubes I used were good, just not as good as the new ones. 

Ken and Jianghai, you missed a good time.  I enjoyed not being overly stressed about the comparison.  I had worried about it too much.  It was a lot more casual than I had planned which made it easier to enjoy. :)

-C
Title: Re: April 1st: Carl's DAC comparison get together...
Post by: rollo on April 25, 2012, 07:19:53 AM
  Very interesting findings men. Thanks. Sounds like all had a good time.
   

charles