AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: rollo on January 01, 2020, 11:02:21 AM
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Some say { Linkwitz Riely } that a monopole speaker should be placed either within one mtr from front wall OR more than 2.2 mtrs. Any thoughts as to why or a different opinion ?
charles
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The answer can be found at Linkwitz Labs in section D of room acoustics. He goes into how loudspeaker location in the room affects the frequency response including the math. See link below.
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
Scotty
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Thanks old friend. Hope all is well.
charles
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The answer can be found at Linkwitz Labs in section D of room acoustics. He goes into how loudspeaker location in the room affects the frequency response including the math. See link below.
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/rooms.htm
Scotty
Great site. Thank you :thumb:
Nick
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Perhaps the absolute worst sounding room I ever heard at a RMAF was a Linkwitz room. The guy may have been an industry icon, but he was certainly careless with his set up in Denver several years back.
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Perhaps the absolute worst sounding room I ever heard at a RMAF was a Linkwitz room. The guy may have been an industry icon, but he was certainly careless with his set up in Denver several years back.
I don’t think it was just that room, Scott. There is a guy IN Albuquerque with the full blown Linkwitz Orion setup and it always sounds broken...
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Good to know those contrarian opinions. What would be a better site for me to read on room acoustics?
Nick
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I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
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I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
That's a big +1. There are some general principles to use as guide lines, but I suspect that trial and error is still what works. Dave knows this topic much, much better than me. Dave??
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I think different speakers, will need different placement in different rooms. What are the modes in the room, what are the frequency peaks/valleys in the speakers output(?) How about dispersion and room reflection(?)
That's a big +1. There are some general principles to use as guide lines, but I suspect that trial and error is still what works. Dave knows this topic much, much better than me. Dave??
Flying today... getting on the plane in 5 minutes...
More tomorrow 8)
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Room acoustics is basically physics and math. Just because a Linkwitz speaker system combined with his equipment choices sounds bad doesn't mean that the math is wrong. It's never that simple. The Gik Acoustics website also has some good content. If the REW measurement system is properly used, you should be able to get the best compromise in frequency extension VS frequency flatness at a single listening position.
Which is usually the best that you can do, unless multiple time delayed subwoofers are used to optimize the bass extension throughout the room. Obviously response variations throughout rest of the frequency range due to room acoustics will have to be treated and possibly EQed. Reverberation time improvements will also come along for the ride if effective room treatment is done.
However, I am not one of those people who believe that room treatment will cure the effects of a system built around crap electronics and poorly designed loudspeakers.
Scotty
Those who respectfully disagree with this opinion can still talk to the hand. 🖐️😔
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However, I am not one of those people who believe that room treatment will cure the effects of a system built around crap electronics and poorly designed loudspeakers.
Scotty
Those who respectfully disagree with this opinion can still talk to the hand. 🖐️😔
+1 : me too. All room effective room treatment will do s expose crappy gear faster than a normal room environment. Crap sounds crappier...
With an optimized to the owner system, room treatment is the last and most important interconnect in a typical system. It doesn't take a lot of work to make many rooms MUCH better acoustically and conversely there are rooms that will NEVER sound as good as a room with better dimensions and/or configuration. Like Scotty said: It's all physics and math. To top this, the physocs and math are very simple and there are many valid room analysis software programs available as well as some good "Do this, don't do that" sources all over the internet. The Linkwitz link provided earlier is great. Here are a few other resources for many things audio:
George Cardas' site :http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Acoustic.html
https://users.aalto.fi/~ktlokki/Publs/mst_laukkanen.pdf - An interesting dissertation on acoustics with many pearls of wisdom for those than can slog through trough all of those words!
Bottom line is that the speakers sound the best in their unique position in your unique room. There are rules of thumb, but those are often amendable for the speaker/room combo.
Greg Rae sells diffusers that I designed back in 1992. They have many imitators and high priced alternatives. Don't buy from Greg? Buy from GIK... (great sales job, huh :( ) Bottom line is that a few intelligently placed absorber/diffusers/room redirection devices can turn a so-so room into a very good listening environment
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Some say { Linkwitz Riely } that a monopole speaker should be placed either within one mtr from front wall OR more than 2.2 mtrs. Any thoughts as to why or a different opinion ?
charles
Charles, it's just Linkwitz (RIP), Riley was the other half of his famous XO filter. There is far too much variability in rooms (dimensionally and structurally), (monopole) loudspeakers and personal taste for there to be any "rule" for placement. There is an awful lot of technically illiterate nonsense out there stating otherwise.
Any sort of placement will depend upon all 3 factors I mentioned. That said, it's not unreasonable, if allowed, to start say 1m of the front wall with a typical box non-corner speaker and adjust from there as needed.
cheers,
AJ
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I have used CARA2.2 Plus for many years to get good ideas of where to start with speaker placement. It has worked well for me.
You can do a simple model or complex model of the room and speakers to have it do an optimization for placement.
It allows stereo and multi-channel systems to be built.
http://www.rhintek.com/cara/cara21desc.php
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Thanks men. To be honest I was looking for a valid point for of placing or not placing monopole less than one mtr from front wall or over 2 mtr to avoid moving my heavy speakers on spikes. PIA.
I will just have to move them to find out. Thanks for all the responses.
charles
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I have used CARA2.2 Plus for many years to get good ideas of where to start with speaker placement. It has worked well for me.
You can do a simple model or complex model of the room and speakers to have it do an optimization for placement.
It allows stereo and multi-channel systems to be built.
http://www.rhintek.com/cara/cara21desc.php
Thank you Hal. Probably by best bet besides my ears.
charles
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To be honest I was looking for a valid point for of placing or not placing monopole less than one mtr from front wall
If its say a large CD/Horn type speaker, then its probably ok. If it's a narrow baffle wide dispersion cone n domer, probably not.
Both are "monopoles".
or over 2 mtr
If its say a large CD/Horn type speaker, with large vertical spaced drivers brought closer to you, then its probably not ok. If it's a narrow baffle cone n domer, probably fine.
Both are "monopoles".
Haven't even touched on room or tastes yet. :)