AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Speakers => Topic started by: shep on April 18, 2007, 04:29:43 PM
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There's a lot of jumping up and down and hyperbole over at AC about these and the super duper new X'overs being offered (for super duper prices) anyone have any ear-knowlege about these or thoughts? Sounds too good to be true. Haven't we all heard about the Ultimate killer product before? and before that...
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There's a lot of jumping up and down and hyperbole over at AC about these and the super duper new X'overs being offered (for super duper prices) anyone have any ear-knowlege about these or thoughts? Sounds too good to be true. Haven't we all heard about the Ultimate killer product before? and before that...
I don't suppose you want to ask me about 'em, huh? :wink:
Seriously, though, only a precious few have heard the new crossover components, but those who have happen to be people I trust. That puts me in a position unique to most, allowing me to be more confident than ever that my purchase of "Full Monty" Revelations is money well-spent.
FWIW, if you read Scott Black's review (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=37816.0) of the Revelations, you'll notice he's owned and heard a lot of great speakers, and yet he believes the Revelations are the last speakers he'll ever buy. Throw in a few choice comments from renowned speaker-hater Jim Merod (http://www.4sptech.com/version2/jim-merod_bio.html) -
"I despise speakers. I love microphones ... all microphones, because -- if you know what you're doing -- each microphone,
no matter what, is useful in a set of special applications.
"I count the number of speakers I've used, heard, and reviewed that earn my complete respect on one hand . . . less than five fingers.
"I've never heard a speaker that reproduces all the music --
all the ambient information I strive to capture in my recordings
-- until I heard SP TECH's 'Revelation MR-1' . . . I'll not relent until, with their shocking nakedness, they are locked into place as monitoring companions here at BluePort Sound."
...and legendary amp designer Steve McCormack (recently told a perspective purchaser that he'll own a pair of Revelations as soon as he can afford them) and you have to begin to wonder if it might be true. The Steve McCormack anecdote was offered me by the formerly "prospective" purchaser himself, and since speaking w/ Steve he's ordered a pair of "Full Monty" Revelations, a "Full Monty" Continuum for use as a center channel and a pair of "standard" Continuums as surrounds. And this by a guy who has never heard an SP Technology speaker!!! :shock:
All I know is that they're the best speakers *for me and my tastes* that I've ever heard, and they've gone through 3 separate improvements since I last heard them. And that's not including the most recent crossover component changes.
Anyway, like I said... you probably don't want to ask me. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-Jim
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nahh...I knew I didn't have to! This is a serious serious serious problem for the budget conscious amongst us. (read "10 years prison for attempted bank robbery. Senior citizen was apprehended with a soap carved knife at a local bank. The teller related that he was babbling about some obscure fetish object called SP Revelation, with tears streaming down his face. As he was taken in for treatment one witness remarked a light blue tea shirt with the words Audio Nervosa on it. It is not yet know what significance this might have but it is thought to represend some little known cult suspected of similar acts throughout the universe"
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There's a lot of jumping up and down and hyperbole over at AC about these and the super duper new X'overs being offered (for super duper prices) anyone have any ear-knowlege about these or thoughts? Sounds too good to be true. Haven't we all heard about the Ultimate killer product before? and before that...
Hearing is believing....but many never get the chance.
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Well, I have Timepieces ordered (with the old cosmetics, but the new(er?) Mundorf xover). It's not the "full Monty" that Jim is getting, but quality somewhere in between. I'm really looking forward to it and maybe they'll be here in a couple of weeks. I'm hoping to hear a big difference................... :)
Nick
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Description and prices here. (http://www.responseaudio.com/SP%20Tech.htm)
What's this "full monty" treatment? Is that the same as Premier? Are there any reviews of the Revelation model out yet? Is this active amplification, or passive crossover?
I see a few things that make my warning antennas come up: the words Golden Ratio, Porsche, a buxom babe in the picture, buying without hearing first, shiny piano lacquer finish, and only 2 8" woofers claiming -2dB at 25Hz. Not that any of those things are bad... ;) No Revelation reviews yet. I would be most concerned about tonal accuracy with the horn tweeter and distortion in the low frequencies from smallish drivers. I will read the reviews of the other models to learn more about his design goals.
I am pretty sceptical, but I respect your opinions Jim and Chris. The Adagios surprised me with their good tone and decent bass response from small drivers, so maybe these will too. I'm always open minded and willing to learn new tricks, but also mindful of the limits of physics and the influence of the market. I hope they come to RMAF.
Rich
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One of my nearby audioheads has a pair of Revelations coming soon. I'm excited to hear them.
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The "Full Monty" is my chosen verbiage to describe the crossovers w/ top-of-the-line Mundorf pieces and parts ($$$). It has nothing to do with the Premier finish. There are no professional reviews of the Revelations yet, and the crossover is passive (external is an option, though).
FWIW, my Timepieces have only a single 8" woofer per side, and are claimed to reach -3dB @ 29Hz. I doubt anyone who has heard them questions the accuracy of those measurements, but you're more than welcome to come over and check anytime you like. :D
With regards to distortion in the low frequencies, I believe you'll find that I, George Hoenninger (zybar), Scott Black (Freejazz) and others have all made statements to the effect that Revelations produce the best bass we've heard from any speaker or subwoofer, regardless of price. Granted, that and a buck-fifty will get you half-way to a decent cup o' coffee, but it would seem to lend credence to the engineering goals and design philosophy of Bob Smith. That, or we all really like the distortion they produce! :lol: :lol: :lol:
As for tonal accuracy, Jim Merod (http://www.4sptech.com/version2/jim-merod_bio.html) (founder of BluePort Sound recording studio and BluePort Jazz record label, writer for ENJOY THE MUSIC, POSITIVE FEEDBACK, formerly with Stereo Times), Bill Roberts (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1003/sptechnology.htm) (formerly of ENJOY THE MUSIC) and Bruce Bartlett (http://www.4sptech.com/reviews/bartlett.pdf) are all recording engineers, and they certainly didn't have an issue with tonal irregularities or distortion. Stephen Murphy (http://www.proaudioreview.com/august03/SP_Technology.shtml) of Pro Audio Sound "has produced or engineered hundreds of recordings, including Grammy-winning and gold and platinum-selling releases", and he didn't seem to think they were issues either. In fact, they all say or imply otherwise. :wink:
Bear in mind, too, that all but Jim Merod's review were of the older, since thrice-improved Timepiece 2.0s. But as Chris says, hearing is believing.
They were at the 2004 RMAF, but I don't know what (if any) plans Bob has for this year. That's where I heard them, and I've been counting my pennies ever since.
Are they for everyone? Absolutely not. Tastes and desires are far too varied for any one speaker to satisfy all. That said, I honestly doubt anyone who hears a properly set-up and supported (i.e., ancillary equipment) pair will fail to recognize the quality of sound produced whether it meets with their sonic wants/needs/desires or not.
So as always, YMMV...
-Jim
PS - I feel for you, shep. If you ever find yourself back in the states, you're welcome to stop by and listen as long as you like... or until the wife kicks you out, whichever occurs first. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-Jim
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What's this "full monty" treatment? Is that the same as Premier? Are there any reviews of the Revelation model out yet? Is this active amplification, or passive crossover?
Over on the "other circle" aka AC, Bob from SP had posted that he is re-doing the standard finsh on the Timepieces. Since he had some old stock around, I am getting the"old finish" at a very nice discount. I did opt for the new Mundorf parts, though. This is all internal and not the super duper external xover that Jim is getting. Whether there is an intermediate Mundorf upgrade between what Jim and I are getting, I don't know.
Because of the nice discount, this is a "no brainer" for me. Also, I trust Jim's judgment and comments based on our PM's and phone discussions.
I should have been much clearer in my post and hope this hasn't cast a bad light in any way on Bob at SPTech. He's very straightforward and a pleasure to deal with.
Nick
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Thanks Jim. You know I would LOVE to hear them. Next summer I will drive out to Indy, maybe I'll take a little longer route and stop in! You'll have them dialed in by then. Maybe sooner at a show.
Rich
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Thanks Jim. You know I would LOVE to hear them. Next summer I will drive out to Indy, maybe I'll take a little longer route and stop in! You'll have them dialed in by then. Maybe sooner at a show.
Rich
You're welcome to come anytime, Rich. However, I have to say that traveling through Mississippi to get to Indy is quite a detour. But if you're willing, you can bet I am, too! :D
I'll add just one other aside that probably won't mean anything to anyone besides me -
My wife, Kandy, is a classically-trained musician (piano, trumpet) who's been going to jazz gigs with her father since she was in middle school. She's had the pleasure of playing with some of the legends of the business (Thelonious Monk, Maynard Ferguson) and IMO she has a fair idea about how things should sound. Long story short, she's basically forbidden me from bringing other speakers into the house, and she hasn't even heard the Revelations yet! :shock:
Caveat - she did acquiesce once in the past couple of years when she liked the finish of the Daedalus DA-1s, so I bought 'em. She occasionally enjoys the very warm, laid-back sound of the DA-1s, but after a while she'll ask me to bring the Timepieces back into the system. :wink:
-Jim
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Oh, gee I guess I need to back to 2nd grade, thought MS was Missouri. In that case I better plan a trip to see my brother in Sandiego. Route 10? :D
A musician will have a different sense of what instruments sound like up close and personal. Once they hear a speaker that can make music like THAT, it's all over. That's why I am so devoted to my Legacys. I would hope there would be another talented designer with the same sound in mind. Love to hear another brand that gets it right through whole freq band.
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Despite her obvious love of music, Kandy essentially hates everything about audiophilia. To her, it's about the music, stupid! (note - "stupid" added for effect; it just sounds right, doesn't it? :D)
Anyway, she hates all the cable, amp, pre-amp, etc. changes, and just wants to listen to music. But in a twist not unlike your recent experience, I've sort of won her over through the music she loves so much.
She's fond of repeating a phrase she made up that reflects her frugal nature ("You can't miss what you don't know you don't have."), but obviously she couldn't avoid hearing the results of my obsession with re-creating the live event in our home. Now she will occasionally give me a sideways glance and say, "You've ruined me" and make reference to how happy she was when all she had was a pair of $150 speakers, a cheap multi-channel turner/integrated and a 10-year old Sony 100-disc changer, but she'll quickly (albeit grudgingly) admit to being pleased with the results of my labor. Once you've heard it, there's no going back... at least not willingly.
From what I've read, I think you'd like 'em, Rich. But even if you don't, it'd be an educational experience, and there's something to be said for that. The more I learn, the more I know I don't know. Who knows... I may stumble across a speaker tomorrow that makes my Timepieces sound like a clock radio.
But I ain't holdin' my breath. :wink:
Take care, and lemme know if/when you begin heading west.
-Jim
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That's funny Jim. My wife's frugal saying is "You gotta do watcha got with" which is still as important to us now as it was in the old days when $20 was serious money. She understands/tolerates the audio quest and appreciates the results by playing her own music. I wanna get her into rhapsody or pandora or something where she can explore all the crazy modern music out there on the system. Squeezebox is not totally effortless for browsing, so a laptop or sonos or something might be easier. Beethoven only wrote 9 symphonies, and unlike me she gets bored with my same old shit all the time. Julie will never let the Legacy's go out the door. Unless I can prove something better coming in. But to her they are plenty good enough so "just buy CDs now."
I will let you know if we head west. I have been thinking about taking the kids on the road on their break, but no plans yet. Thanks for the invite!
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Jim thanks for the invite. Not sure my heart or my head could take that much pleasure though! "you can't miss what you haven't experienced" I'll just listen from the safe side-lines. I got silly lucky with my 600$ Dutch hand-made TL's (and a rather up-market X'over they have too!). Man's gotta know his limits! years ago I would have done just about anything (including illegal) to get my hands on great gear and it wasn't even that good! Getting wise AND frugal. Who would have thought...
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Rich-
Yeah, Kandy enjoys listening to jazz stations via the modified Transporter, and endeavors to have pen and paper handy for those times she hears an artist/CD that speaks to her. I usually listen to my ripped CDs, but I've been known to take the occasional stroll down the Internet music highway. It really is a great way to discover music and artists you'd normally only find by happenstance.
shep-
I understand completely, my friend. I'm not wealthy by any definition, but I am blessed to be able to make the rare fiscally irresponsible purchase without foregoing a roof or food.
The offer stands, though. If nothing else, you and my wife can swap France stories while listening to wonderful music. :wink:
-Jim
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mighty kind of you Jim to extend an invite to a total stranger. Nothing would please me more but I don't travel well! Always find a reason to not go somewhere. I had to be dragged by a girl friend to Morroco and Senegal these last years. Both places I love but I get anxiety attacks whanI'm more than 50 miles from home! Pretty set in my ways...I hate to travel but like being somewhere else...you figure. Internet lets us travel without moving from a chair. Pretty neat actually. Regarding audio gear, I have to really be carefull. I am prone to impulse buying. Of late that's proven fortuitous but it could turn the other way! Fortunately it's not so easy to order something from abroad and that gives time for reflexion.
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Nick....
I'm looking forward to you TP review....make sure you use good stands.
Rich....
I am pretty sceptical, but I respect your opinions Jim and Chris. The Adagios surprised me with their good tone and decent bass response from small drivers, so maybe these will too. I'm always open minded and willing to learn new tricks, but also mindful of the limits of physics and the influence of the market.
I hope you get to hear a pair (TP's)....because their a lot better than the Adagios. And the Revelation's...well....they will just blow you away....their really that good.
Mike....
One of my nearby audioheads has a pair of Revelations coming soon. I'm excited to hear them.
Great....bring over your amps and preamp, try them out.
Jim....
With regards to distortion in the low frequencies, I believe you'll find that I, George Hoenninger (zybar), Scott Black (Freejazz) and others have all made statements to the effect that Revelations produce the best bass we've heard from any speaker or subwoofer, regardless of price.
Yep....same here. And I'm sure Steve Chang feels the same as well (reefrus).
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Thanks guys. My interest is piqued and my mind is wide open. You have set the expectations very high though.... :wink:
TGIF!
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Rich,
I'm still 'owed' a demo of a pair of TP's from SP... Let me know if I need to call in that favor. I paid shipping for the first demo and Bob agreed to pay to hear some that weren't defective... Just let me know.
-C
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Rich,
I'm still 'owed' a demo of a pair of TP's from SP... Let me know if I need to call in that favor. I paid shipping for the first demo and Bob agreed to pay to hear some that weren't defective... Just let me know.
-C
Good luck. I'm only an hour away from SP, visited the factory myself, and still haven't heard them :( One of these days...
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Rich,
I'm still 'owed' a demo of a pair of TP's from SP... Let me know if I need to call in that favor. I paid shipping for the first demo and Bob agreed to pay to hear some that weren't defective... Just let me know.
-C
Good luck. I'm only an hour away from SP, visited the factory myself, and still haven't heard them :( One of these days...
That can be a problem. :(
Bob is still a small manufacturer who has yet to build a pair for himself, much less local auditions. Keeping stock on hand is not a valid option either since it's expensive to build everything right there on the premises. Having significantly less-expensive Chinese-built cabinets on hand for demo units or extra stock isn't an option either, at least not yet.
If the audio world continues down the current path, it may become necessary for Bob to look elsewhere for cabinets despite the superior performance of SP Tech speakers in their current form. As always, money talks, and even if SP Tech speakers are worth the extra expense, it will become increasingly difficult to convince folks to hear the difference for themselves due to the $$$ difference.
About the only way to get a local audition is to find out when a pair is nearing completion and catch him while they're burning-in.
-Jim
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Rich, I'm still 'owed' a demo of a pair of TP's from SP... Let me know if I need to call in that favor. I paid shipping for the first demo and Bob agreed to pay to hear some that weren't defective... Just let me know. -C
And miss my chance to go to Mississippi? haha Thanks Carl, I will see where I stand when the dust settles here with speaker repairs, preamps, cables, etc. Lots of changes this spring. I will certainly keep that in mind as I read the reviews and keep hearing these guys drooling and bragging! :wink:
Rich
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Rich,
I'm still 'owed' a demo of a pair of TP's from SP... Let me know if I need to call in that favor. I paid shipping for the first demo and Bob agreed to pay to hear some that weren't defective... Just let me know.
-C
About the only way to get a local audition is to find out when a pair is nearing completion and catch him while they're burning-in.
-Jim
Been there, tried that, no worky... :?
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Nick....
I'm looking forward to you TP review....make sure you use good stands.
Hmmm...a review?? from me?? :wink: Well, I'll give it a go when the time comes. As to the stands, they will be SP's as well. Gotta check now with Bob to see when they'll be shipping :)
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Just thought I'd play devils advocate and stir the pot a bit at AC about these. Well the opportunity was presented on a platter...can't seem to shake anything out of the tree except enthusiasm. You know what though?
I'm really very perverse :shock: Given the option I would buy ChairGuy's modified Maggies instead. Anybody understand me? Probably not...not sure I do either but that's just how it is.
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Been there, tried that, no worky... :?
What happened, or didn't happen as it were?
Just thought I'd play devils advocate and stir the pot a bit at AC about these. Well the opportunity was presented on a platter...can't seem to shake anything out of the tree except enthusiasm. You know what though?
I'm really very perverse :shock: Given the option I would buy ChairGuy's modified Maggies instead. Anybody understand me? Probably not...not sure I do either but that's just how it is.
I thought your post on AC was outstanding, just what Bob wanted IMO. Honest and forthright w/o turning ultra-negative.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying about TCG's modified Maggies, though. I'm sure they're less expensive than what some of us are buying, but otherwise I'm not sure there's a valid comparison there.
-Jim
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Just thought I'd play devils advocate and stir the pot a bit at AC about these. Well the opportunity was presented on a platter...can't seem to shake anything out of the tree except enthusiasm. You know what though?
I'm really very perverse :shock: Given the option I would buy ChairGuy's modified Maggies instead. Anybody understand me? Probably not...not sure I do either but that's just how it is.
I understand you, but can't go that direction. Have heard the Maggies at shows only...never owned them. An intriguing thought, but I need a more standard size (aka WAF) in my living room. IIRC, the H20's are quite the match for the Maggies.
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Good luck. I'm only an hour away from SP, visited the factory myself, and still haven't heard them :( One of these days...
Come on Tom....try harder. Maybe you can have a listen to the new improved models that will be rolling out. And since you don't own SP Tech's (right)....it will be an unbiased opinion. 8)
...............Chris
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I think what I mean is (bare with me): At this point in my life, with the life-style I have choosen, with that path (s) that has taken me, I would be uncomfortable with the SUPERLATIVE, with WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and anyway as far as speakers are concerned, there is no comparison possible. I've had a love affair with Maggies since my first pair of MG11's backin '79! I also know that with some fairly simple (and expensive!) modifications, they jump two classes. They were always held back by a the Frame and x'over. Why this has never been addressed by the company is totally beyond my understanding. I suspect the SP's are indeed something special, maybe something very SPECIAL. Am I a bit jaded and cynical? yes I admit to it. In 35 years of audio nervosa ( I was middle-aged before my time!) I have seen so many products proclaimed the ultimate statement...and
then they are not, and so it goes on.
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I can understand that, shep. We all have our favorites, and that you have a long and happy love affair w/ Maggies makes things perfectly clear. That said, I think you'd be surprised at how well the SP Techs will do the things Maggies do best.
For instance, many have deemed Quad '57s the most transparent loudspeaker ever produced, forever and ever, amen. Yet a brief perusal of this post (http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=25631.msg247213#msg247213) by Bica reveals a happy owner surprised to find the Timepieces even more transparent than his '57s. And remember... this gentleman's Timepieces are once or twice removed from the latest updates, and include none of the Mundorf options currently rocking AC. :shock:
Factor-in the incredible aural and visceral dynamics, sub-30 Hz bass (anechoic) from a monitor and the complete lack of "box" speaker sound and you have a fairly amazing transducer IMHO. Further, given the stock condition and claimed performance of the aforementioned Timepieces, it's clear that imbibing at the bar of top-end Mundorf parts and external crossovers isn't necessary to have superlative pair of speakers.
But you have what looks to be a mighty fine speaker in your Dutch TL, and you've expressed your affection for them often enough to know you certainly aren't suffering in an auditory abyss. As my wife says, "you can't miss what you don't know you don't have." As long as you don't hear a pair, you will soon forget what I and others have said about SP Tech speakers. After all, we've nothing to offer beyond our subjective impressions, and some of those include little to nothing in the way of quantification or qualification. And as you astutely pointed out, "Haven't we all heard about the Ultimate killer product before? and before that..." :wink:
Take care, my friend. Should your aversion to travel ever diminish, you are welcome in my humble abode.
-Jim
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Thanks. I hope I don't give the impression that I'm trying to sabotage anyones enthusiasm for this design. This is far from my intent. I guess I'm just playing devils advocate...where are the "best of the best" of yore?
Where does the persuit of excellence stop? Does it ever? We have all had our audio epiphanies, that marked us indelibly and fueled our individual quest for a constant repeat. Given the fleeting nature of this experience, I'm not sure that it can ever be anchored down. Mine was most certainly hearing my first Maggies in a store, driven by some AR solid state amps. I bought both and it took a long time to recreate that experience and intense frustration! In any event I will follow this all closely to be sure. I am not silly enough to imagine my little Dutch TLs are of this caliber...but they seem to fit my head/heart space just right and the price was ridiculous and makes me smile. Isn't it nice to get a great deal!
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Yup. I fully understand fondness...and even worship for maggies. When in the sweet spot, they are sublime.
shep, if your Dutch TL's come even close to that sweetness...you have indeed found a bargain. I'll bet their sweet spot is bigger to boot.
WEEZ
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You're right, the sweet spot is wider. The bass is deeper and better integrated, the tweeter is very special (I know cause I had the Dynaudio Esotars in my last coffins) I guess they speak with one voice and in this sense they are better than any Maggies I've had or heard (this is going back some years) Clearly the X'over is MUCH better than any unmodded
M. So what's missing? the Image hight and sense of walk-into-the performance. They are probably not as tactile-sounding either. I suspect a lot is going to change for me in another room and with the new amp (to say nothing of Grover's cables. Don't forget I'm using 15 year old Straight Wire at present...I gave up on the DH labs silver. They are much more mechanical sounding than the SW)
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Finally getting around to reading more about SP and Timepieces. Nothin but love so far! :D Link to mfg's website here (http://www.4sptech.com).
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Speaking of SP Tech, it appears my quest for ultimate loudspeakers may be on indefinite hold. :(
We made an offer on a house today that doesn't have a room suitable for the Timepieces, much less the "Full Monty" Revelations I've ordered. While that may seem insane to some, our reasons for moving are valid. Further, we didn't really bid on the 2600 sq. ft. house, but for the 3+ acres upon which it resides. The neighborhood represents a significant step up (the home next door was a Southern Living House of the Year), and the school system is *MUCH* better than the one my 9-year old stepson is currently attending.
I guess this post is essentially an audio vent. The house is barely adequate size-wise, but the location and property are amazing. Still, the thought of giving up my system for an indefinite period has me a little dazed. I've even considered selling my equipment and starting over if/when my fiscal strength is again sufficient to warrant the addition of a dedicated audio/video room. I doubt I'd sell the Butler Monads or Stealth Cables Indra; they're rare pieces, and absolutely stellar performers IMHO.
I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. Dazed, stunned, whatever. Add in the 4 Percocet and 2 Lyrica I've had today and I'll likely be embarrassed when I read this post tomorrow. Disjointed...nonsensical...
I'm sorry, guys. I saw the new post about SP Tech and it reminded me of what I'm likely about to give up. I guess I needed a release. :?
Anyway, I'll know whether or not the bid was accepted by noon tomorrow. Family will *ALWAYS* take precedence over audio, so I hope everything goes as planned.
-Jim
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Good luck Jim !!
If you will have 3+ acres .....I see a nice audio (extension) room in your future. 8)
If you need me to hold on to the Butler amps till your ready....just let me know.
My TP's will be coming back from Daniel's on May 6th. :wink:
Take care of yourself....
Chris
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Speaking of SP Tech, it appears my quest for ultimate loudspeakers may be on indefinite hold. :(
We made an offer on a house today that doesn't have a room suitable for the Timepieces, much less the "Full Monty" Revelations I've ordered. While that may seem insane to some, our reasons for moving a valid. Further, we didn't really bid on the 2600 sq. ft. house, but for the 3+ acres upon which it resides. The neighborhood represents a significant step up (the home next door was a Southern Living House of the Year), and the school system is *MUCH* better than the one my 9-year old stepson is currently attending.
I guess this post is essentially an audio vent. The house is barely adequate size-wise, but the location and property are amazing. Still, the thought of giving up my system for an indefinite period has me a little dazed. I've even considered selling my equipment and starting over if/when my fiscal strength is again sufficient to warrant the addition of a dedicated audio/video room. I doubt I'd sell the Butler Monads or Stealth Cables Indra; they're rare pieces, and absolutely stellar performers IMHO.
I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. Dazed, stunned, whatever. Add in the 4 Percocet and 2 Lyrica I've had today and I'll likely be embarrassed when I read this post tomorrow. Disjointed...nonsensical...
I'm sorry, guys. I saw the new post about SP Tech and it reminded me of what I'm likely about to give up. I guess I needed a release. :?
Anyway, I'll know whether or not the bid was accepted by noon tomorrow. Family will *ALWAYS* take precedence over audio, so I hope everything goes as planned.
-Jim
Hope all goes as you planned. Family does indeed come first and the audio part will work out. Sorry to hear about your pain problems. I had back injections 2 weeks ago, but the need for pain meds has been limited to some home-made margueritas. Get better quick and enjoy your great system
Nick
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Speaking of SP Tech, it appears my quest for ultimate loudspeakers may be on indefinite hold. :(
We made an offer on a house today that doesn't have a room suitable for the Timepieces, much less the "Full Monty" Revelations I've ordered. While that may seem insane to some, our reasons for moving a valid. Further, we didn't really bid on the 2600 sq. ft. house, but for the 3+ acres upon which it resides. The neighborhood represents a significant step up (the home next door was a Southern Living House of the Year), and the school system is *MUCH* better than the one my 9-year old stepson is currently attending.
I guess this post is essentially an audio vent. The house is barely adequate size-wise, but the location and property are amazing. Still, the thought of giving up my system for an indefinite period has me a little dazed. I've even considered selling my equipment and starting over if/when my fiscal strength is again sufficient to warrant the addition of a dedicated audio/video room. I doubt I'd sell the Butler Monads or Stealth Cables Indra; they're rare pieces, and absolutely stellar performers IMHO.
I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say. Dazed, stunned, whatever. Add in the 4 Percocet and 2 Lyrica I've had today and I'll likely be embarrassed when I read this post tomorrow. Disjointed...nonsensical...
I'm sorry, guys. I saw the new post about SP Tech and it reminded me of what I'm likely about to give up. I guess I needed a release. :?
Anyway, I'll know whether or not the bid was accepted by noon tomorrow. Family will *ALWAYS* take precedence over audio, so I hope everything goes as planned.
-Jim
Yikes, I'm hoping the drugs wear off (and your pain) and this isn't really happening. I was (selfishly) pretty psyched to start hearing about the "Ultimate" Revelations. This is never easy stuff but, except for the music part, it's all good, as they say. I see a music room in the future too. With 3 acres to work with that's a lot of runway. Best of luck to you and all the changes.
Tom
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Thanks for the well-wishes, fellas. Looking back now (sans Percocet and Lyrica), the post isn't too embarrassing, aside from sounding more than a little whiney. Never cared for whiney, being a manly man and all... :wink:
Anyway, we'll know something soon. Tick, tick, tick...
-Jim
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Good luck. The things we do for kids and family....
Maybe you don't have to give it all up all the way. Maybe a little pair of M+D Rubies people are raving about in a nearfield setup?
Bryan
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Good luck, Jim.
I have a sneaky feeling things will work out for family AND audio.
best,
Don
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Thanks, Bryan.
Statement retracted because it was erroneous. My source(s) in this case are apparently mistaken.
WEEZ-
Thanks. Now I guess you know why I haven't set up a weekend for us to get together yet. :wink:
As for audio, we'll see. I'll certainly have the room to add-on, but having the $$$ to do it is the issue. We plan to knock out a wall to enlarge and remodel the kitchen first (BIG $$$ here!) and we'll eventually add-on a *new* master BR and bath. The dedicated room with be part of that addition plan... I hope. :shock:
-Jim
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Wowsers, you've done the right thing even if it hurts. Had you chosen otherwise, guilt would have contaminated your Glory Sounds.
It sucks though. You've been on quite a journey and Just Got There, a cruel twist.
I would do the same, *sigh*. Good luck with all, hopefully you'll fall into some dough and be back up and listening in no time.
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I'm glad my post was a trigger for your catharsis, Jim, but not glad to hear about you discomfort. I hope you're feeling better now.
I made that post because you got me all hot and bothered over these SP speakers now, "Thank you very much" :evil: I was reading your review on AC from '04 and grinned when I read about your wife and son dancing. My son is same age 8 soon 9 and we call him Bud too. We dance all the time in the sound room. I also have 2 others younger. We survived the same journey you are starting now with a move to a new house for the same reasons, centered around providing for our growing family. It is a big change but in the end it was worth it. At least your is already built! AHHHHHH! :shock:
I was just getting started in hifi at the old house and didn't realize how good I had it over there. I had a detached garage with a 15 x 25 room above, with angled ceilings, dedicated power panel and no noise restrictions. At that time my idea of good sound was my onkyo receiver, samsung DVD player and tiny deftech sat/sub! But I had bought the Focus speakers knowing they would soon come live in the big house.
Now we're in this big house and the sound room (family room, like yours) is beautiful to look at but is presenting a huge challenge acoustically with large openings, and untreatable walls. But the important thing is there are more kids to make friends, better schools, more space for all our junk, and a much better $ appreciation curve than the old house. But there is not a room in the house that is really suitable for a good hifi sound room, except my kids playroom, which I have been informed is off limits. Our next door neighbor got a full basement and I am so jealous! They don't use it for anything! Somehow I'll find a way to work it out. And so will you! Now I gotta hurry up and get my butt down to hear your timepieces before the movers come! Good luck on the bid!
Rich
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Well, the bid was accepted, but not without additional negotiations. My realtor had told me the seller was a jerk, but I'm not sure I truly believed her until today.
The end result is we'll probably still take the house, contingent upon a good inspection report by an inspector of our choosing. But it isn't a done deal.
The guy made a mistake today when he made me angry over what should have been a standard agreement item. If he gives me the slightest reason to back out, I will. He's already killed what should be a happy event, and that pisses me off. Consequently, the nearer we get to closing - and the nearer his new home is to completion - the greater the chance I'll hit him between the eyes with something... anything... and walk away. I don't have to move, but unless he wants to go broke really fast, he's going to need to sell that house sooner than later.
I *HATE* giving my money to someone I don't respect. :twisted:
-Jim, the angry house hunter
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Understand - been there - but you have to look at the big picture. Do what's best in the long run. If you're going to get him, do it financially to your advantage, not by backing out and losing something that's good for you and your family.
It's easy to be pissed off but just think about it for another day.
Bryan
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Congrats Jim! Oh happy day! :D You got a new house dude!!
Ditto what Bryan said.
My wife has been in RE for 10 years, so I have heard every story there is about buyers, sellers, builders, lenders, a**holes, angels, etc. Every negotiation has some aspect of drama, rarely is it all good. There are a lot of wackos in the world and their true colors come out when they start playing in the big leagues, anything over $1000 for most people. Make it a quarter million and they can forget their soul.
If you like this house, put on a smile despite the idiot and just get the house. You can only beat him by closing. Anything else is beneath you. Recognize the type of puzzle you are playing here and play to win! If not you he will sell to somebody else for the same price, why should he care about your wants? Well besides the obvious reason decency, which apparently doesn't apply in this case.
RE is never fun, it is all business. Don't let the emotions of the players (including yours) interfere with your successful deal.
Congrats!!!!!
Rich
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Understand - been there - but you have to look at the big picture. Do what's best in the long run. If you're going to get him, do it financially to your advantage, not by backing out and losing something that's good for you and your family.
You're right, of course. Truth be told, that's precisely what Kandy and I discussed today.
I'd MUCH prefer to continue with the purchase, but if the guy wants to play hardball, I have no problem with that. He seems oblivious to the fact that the ball is now in our court, which is going to make it just that much sweeter if/when we drop the hammer. Since it appears he's done virtually nothing to maintain the house and property in the 5 years he's owned it, I'm practically salivating at what I believe will be a myriad of opportunities to make his life a living Hell.
Now that the contract is signed, the pendulum of influence swings in our favor. The closer we get to closing day (May 25th), the greater the leverage becomes. I know the guy wants out of the house, but he's trying to take advantage of a seller's market (seriously, it is down here) to the extreme. Apparently it never occurred to him that someone else can be made to be as big a prick as he, and though I'm not proud of it, I'm just the guy to pull it off.
Nevertheless, I honestly believe it's even money we end up walking. The guy has a track record of being unreasonable and shows no signs of letting up. If I present legitimate concerns/issues and he responds as he did today, we'll walk. Regardless of the circumstances, there's always a breaking point, and this guy has played his last card as far as I'm concerned.
Kandy loves the place so much that I found her crying at the kitchen table the day after we were led to believe it had sold to someone else, and even she's ready to call it quits now. My realtor is furious, and according to her, even this guy's own realtor is pissed at him.
-Jim
PS - Anyone here a hospital administrator? If the only two with whom I've dealt (my ex-father-in-law and this guy) are indicative of the species, I hope to avoid all future encounters. Surely there's an average, normal guy out there who just happens to be a hospital administrator, right?
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Congrats Jim! Oh happy day! :D You got a new house dude!!
Ditto what Bryan said.
My wife has been in RE for 10 years, so I have heard every story there is about buyers, sellers, builders, lenders, a**holes, angels, etc. Every negotiation has some aspect of drama, rarely is it all good. There are a lot of wackos in the world and their true colors come out when they start playing in the big leagues, anything over $1000 for most people. Make it a quarter million and they can forget their soul.
If you like this house, put on a smile despite the idiot and just get the house. You can only beat him by closing. Anything else is beneath you. Recognize the type of puzzle you are playing here and play to win! If not you he will sell to somebody else for the same price, why should he care about your wants? Well besides the obvious reason decency, which apparently doesn't apply in this case.
RE is never fun, it is all business. Don't let the emotions of the players (including yours) interfere with your successful deal.
Congrats!!!!!
Rich
I hear what you're saying, Rich, but as Bryan mentioned, I think I can do better than beating him at closing. If I play it right, I think I can make it such that he deeply regrets not taking my original offer. To date, he's held all the cards (great house/location in a seller's market), but things have changed in the past 24 hours, and I hope to take full advantage.
Thing is, he's building a brand new house that will be finished in the next 30 days or so, and he's anxious to sell his current abode. I have an inkling of what this guy makes, and it doesn't put him in a likely position to be able to afford two homes for very long. In fact, he supposedly had an offer $5k higher than my original counter, and yet when the prospective buyer couldn't be reached for signing (his wife had a car accident), he quickly dropped the $5k and came back to me. Considering the fact that he house has been on the market less than 2 weeks, has been shown at least 3 times and garnered at least 2 offers, the 180 he pulled smacks of desperation, and I hope it will lead to his fiscal undoing.
The inspector I plan to hire is famous (or infamous, depending on your perspective) for being tough and thorough, and I have little doubt he'll find enough that needs repairing/replacing that the seller would've been better off taking my initial offer. If not, great; the house will be in better condition that I'd thought possible and the deal will go through. If not, well... there's the rub. I'll play it straight-up because I'm not a liar or a shyster, but believe you me, it will be hardball. And the closer we get to May 25th, the harder the ball will become.
Like I've said before, I want to move, but I don't have to. I can just put my kid in 1 of 3 conveniently located private schools and put the rest of what I'd spend in the bank account. The same can't be said of the jerk.
-Jim
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Remember Carrie, the crotchety old thorn from the TV show ER? There you go, incontrovertable proof.
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Remember Carrie, the crotchety old thorn from the TV show ER? There you go, incontrovertable proof.
No, I never saw the show. But I'll take your word for it. :wink:
-Jim
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Keep your cool, Jim.
Like you said, you don't HAVE to move; and the ball is now in YOUR court.
I've moved (10) times since leaving my parent's roost, (a million years ago :lol: ) including building a house (somewhere in there). It's always a hassle. Sometimes good...but a hassle none the less. Now that I'm an old fart...the prospect of moving again would distress me :) .
Hey, if it's meant to be..it's meant to be. If not, there will be other opportunities......
Stay cool, buddy....
WEEZ
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Keep your cool, Jim.
WEEZ
Yeah, I'm cooled down now. I was still steaming when I made the initial post-acceptance post, but I'm all better now. :D
However, it doesn't mean I'm not going to follow-through with what I said above. I've moved something like 15 times in the past 25 years, and though I don't claim to be an expert and have never held a realtor's license, I think I know a thing or two about buying and selling homes from a seller's/buyer's perspective. Sure, I've had good and bad experiences too, but this guy takes the cake.
-Jim
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My wife's a hospital administrator - she negotiates contracts on behalf of the hospital against insurance companies. Wanna see a worse group than hospital folks?
We bought the house we're in about 2 years ago. To call the purchase a nightmare would be complimentary. We almost lost the deal the day before closing and two days before the scheduled move-in. We almost had to move back in with my folks (our other house was sold). It was a freakin' miracle it worked out in the end. My wife and I reflect back at that as one of the worst experiences either of us have ever had.
The good news is we both love the place and it's perfect for us and the kids.
I'll echo sentiments above that it's the house you're after, not the guy. The caution would be that real estate deals take a long time and there are a lot of potential landmines through the gestation period. Dishonest actors have many, many opportunities along the way to blow things up.
For example - my *bad* deal was the result of sellers realizing they had sold for around $50k under market, reviewing the contract, and trying to invalidate it. Once a scumbag . . .
I hope it all works out for you. Kandy crying sounds EXACTLY like a scene I had with my wife during our trial. I hope yours is all a diminishing reflection in the rearview soon.
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There's a lot of jumping up and down and hyperbole over at AC about these and the super duper new X'overs being offered (for super duper prices) anyone have any ear-knowlege about these or thoughts? Sounds too good to be true. Haven't we all heard about the Ultimate killer product before? and before that...
I have a pair of Timepiece 2.1's and I will be upgrading my crossovers in the next week or two and will report back.
As a side note, I live just a few minutes from the SP Tech facility and I've gotten to be pretty good friends with Bob Smith. I trust that he would not have recommended the upgrade to me, knowing that I'm on a pretty tight budget, if he was not 100% sure it would improve the sound. He is a very stand-up guy and doesn't make a living by fibbing about how good his speakers are.
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Funny how we slid from x'overs à la Timepiece to scumbags and hard ball!
Jim make the prick regret he ever crossed your path and get the house!
I don't own a house buy I would be plotting serious revenge by now;
dumping moles on his new lawn, termites and wood rot and intermittant lightening strikes!
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Jim make the prick regret he ever crossed your path and get the house!
That's the plan, though it may prove easier said than done.
I don't own a house buy I would be plotting serious revenge by now;
dumping moles on his new lawn, termites and wood rot and intermittant lightening strikes!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Goodness, shep... remind me to avoid pissing you off if/when you find your way to the states. :wink:
Seriously, he hasn't done anything to warrant that type activity... yet. From my perspective, I doubt he will, but Kandy might disagree. She and I are cut from a slightly different cloth. To wit -
We wanted to purchase the wooded lot next door before adding-on to our current home, but a house/land speculator/schmuck got to it first (another event precipitating our current endeavor). He moved quickly with building preparations, the first being the removal of virtually every decent-sized tree from the 1-acre lot, something that pissed Kandy off to no end. In the weeks that followed, her oft-expressed thought was to call the INS if Mexicans show up to build the house. :shock:
I'm not too terribly fond of the idea of pissing her off either! :wink:
-Jim
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meek and mild, that's me :shock: only reserve the serious revenge for non-audiophiles. A good mole colony will drive a person wild! I tried drowning them, gassing them, voodoo...they just come back bigger and stronger! Wives are usually the best judge of a finely tuned revenge scenario...don't worry, I have no intentions either to get pissed off or come to the states!
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A good mole colony will drive a person wild! I tried drowning them, gassing them, voodoo...they just come back bigger and stronger!
Tell me about it! I lived here 3 years with no problems, but when they showed up, they arrived in force! Treating my entire 1-acre lot for grubs helped to a degree, but they've never entirely left.
Pesky boogers, no doubt. I'll be glad to leave them behind, assuming all goes well (the jerk is still at it :twisted: ).
Wives are usually the best judge of a finely tuned revenge scenario...
I believe you. They're revenge masters of the known world if my Anti-Christ of an ex-wife is any indication, especially since *I'M* the one who should be getting revenge! :shock:
-Jim
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So Jim, If you're moving on May 5th, I guess that means I shouldn't plan to stop in to hear your TPs for a while? :) haha Does anyone else in SE area have them?
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So Jim, If you're moving on May 5th, I guess that means I shouldn't plan to stop in to hear your TPs for a while? :) haha
Our closing date is May 25th, but the movers won't be here until Tuesday the 29th to pack. Did I mis-post that somewhere?
Does anyone else in SE area have them?
Not to my knowledge.
-Jim
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No, I was going on my bad memory for the date.
I was just kidding about coming down NOW, I wouldn't dare show up in your happy month of fun filled packing!! ;) Although I know the stereo will be playing the whole time!!
Have fun!
Rich
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Rich.....
Soon...in Raleigh, NC 27613....there will be a pair of SP Tech TP 2.1's....
Bigfish/Ken on AC has ordered a pair. Maybe he'll have a listening session. 8)
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Great, thanks Chris!! I want to hear them!
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Rich.....
Soon...in Raleigh, NC 27613....there will be a pair of SP Tech TP 2.1's....
Bigfish/Ken on AC has ordered a pair. Maybe he'll have a listening session. 8)
Rich-
Maybe you can talk Ken into letting you borrow them one weekend. I spoke w/ him for almost 2 hours an evening or two before he pulled the trigger, and he purchased Timepieces in the search for better 2-ch capability with his relatively modest HT set-up. I don't recall specifics, but I wonder if he owns ancillary equipment sufficient to offer a true reflection of their potential.
I'm not saying he doesn't, but if there's a true 'garbage in, garbage out' speaker, the Timepieces are it.
Hey, I hope I'm wrong, but... (http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-013.gif)
-Jim
PS - I spent 4 long hours with an excellent home inspector today. The next 24-48 hours will be interesting, but if I were a betting man, I'd seriously consider putting my retirement on my still being here (i.e., in my current abode) when you make the trip out west. :(
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Thanks, I will get up with Ken.
About the ancillaries, hey I was there only 18 months ago, scheming about how I can get this sound I imagined within my Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/) budget, including speakers! :shock: I was a thousand over budget in my first go, and doubled the investment in the last year, but I am thrilled with the result and now hooked for life or at least until I can get a nice sailboat. ;) The most important thing for a beginner is getting the speaker choice right the first time to avoid frustration of the wrong speaker which will turn him off to the hobby. Then everything else can be had to complement them. But there is always gonna be a 2-5 year lerning curve to get a feel for what you really want to hear and how to get there. The forums help a lot IMO. He bought the Timepieces so he must be very committed to reaching a high goal, so no doubt he will find his way. We all started out with receivers at one point right?
Maybe we can visit the new arrival and show him what choices are available in amps, cables, sources, etc. :twisted: I'm sure you gave him some good advice too, Jim.
Just let me know where you end up. If you move, I know your TPs won't stay packed for long... Kandy will see to that!! 8)
Rich
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We all started out with receivers at one point right?
I'd wager the vase majority of us started out that way.
I honestly meant no disrespect to him or his current system. I simply question whether his current components will keep him happy for long. We've all been there, especially early in the game.
I'm sure you gave him some good advice too, Jim.
Why would you assume that? :wink:
Just let me know where you end up. If you move, I know your TPs won't stay packed for long... Kandy will see to that!! 8)
The crazy part is that, during what will likely be a deal-breaking inspection, I think I found an arrangement that would work for speakers. :(
-Jim
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The crazy part is that, during what will likely be a deal-breaking inspection, I think I found an arrangement that would work for speakers. :(
-Jim
Good friend at work had a $225k cash offer on his FSBO a couple of weeks ago to close end of May. $10k lower than they wanted but they didn't really have it on the market yet and there were no realtor fees. He's fanatical about maintenance, repairs, decorating, the whole deal. The place was 18 years old and immaculate. New roof, new kitchen, new gutters, reworked baths, etc. Really nice, about 3500sqft.
The buyer dragged their feet on a couple things so the inspection was finally scheduled Monday. Seller's scumbag inspector listed all manner of niggling little things that for the most part were easily fixed for $10-50 each just to be annoying, but that's par for the course. The big hitter was supposedly PB plumbing. Claimed the "vented fireplace log" was a "hazard" and the masonry chimney need to be torn off to the roof and rebuilt. The "log" is actually ventless and the chimney has no active flues at all. Oddly enough the "estimate" for repairs was a dead even $25k!! What a dirtbag He told them to take a hike and that was kind. :evil:
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Good friend at work had a $225k cash offer on his FSBO a couple of weeks ago to close end of May. $10k lower than they wanted but they didn't really have it on the market yet and there were no realtor fees. He's fanatical about maintenance, repairs, decorating, the whole deal. The place was 18 years old and immaculate. New roof, new kitchen, new gutters, reworked baths, etc. Really nice, about 3500sqft.
Sounds great. I'd *love* it if the same could be said of the place I'm considering. Judging by the dust, dirt, filth and state of disrepair, it's almost as though no one has lived there the past 5 years. :(
Oddly enough the "estimate" for repairs was a dead even $25k!! What a dirtbag
The inspector gave an estimate? I don't recall seeing that before.
Or is that what the (former) prospective buyer claimed the repairs are worth?
He told them to take a hike and that was kind. :evil:
Our "negotiations" will likely end in a similar fashion. Unfortunately, I believe all that truly remains is determining who will tell whom to take a walk. I'm not going to pay what I've offered considering what I saw during the inspection. To wit -
1. On a mild spring morning, it took the 25-year old heating/cooling unit almost 3 hours to drop the temperature a grand total of 2 degrees (from 77 to 75 degrees).
2. A *huge* deck in a serious state of disrepair,
3. Water damaged soffits and fascia boards,
4. Several pieces of the cedar siding is severely cracked/riddled with holes,
5. Plumbing repairs made with duct tape (I kid you not :shock:).
I'm reticent to purchase a property so neglected, and the seller has a well-known reputation for nastiness and being difficult, so I can't see it ending well. But as someone else said, if it's meant to be, it'll happen, and there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it.
-Jim
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Back on topic...
I finally got to hear the standard Mundorf version Revelations for several hours today at the SP Tech shop. They are indeed the real deal. Very nice, even listening in a giant wood shop :D
The Odyssey Stratos Extreme Mono SE's are just what the doctor ordered for them - tight bass and very smooth. We discovered the BEL 1001's are definitely NOT the Rev's cup 'o tea. Final setup with Bolder SB2 -> Burson -> Odysseys worked very well. Now let's see, FOUR Mono SE's passive biamped with Ultimate crossovers would be really nice :shock:
No surprise that Bob and Mike were gracious hosts for almost a full day of fun (at least for me). Thanks to both.
More to come later when I have a little more time.
Tom
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Glad you got to hear them, Tom, even if it was in a wood shop.
Looking forward to your additional comments.
-Jim
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Rich and Jim:
I responded to Rich in a PM on AudioCircle about the 2.1s. They are due sometime late June. Prior to ordering the speakers I ordered Odyssey Mono Extreme SEs (Klaus is suppose to teak them so they will be identical to his personal pair) and a Odyssey Candela Preamp. Initially, I will use the IC's from Odyssey so I think when it comes together I should have a decent 2 channel system.
Frankly, I am still struggling greatly with the Squeezebox 3 decision - whether to have Wayne Mod it or purchase a decent DAC and run it through that. Based on PMs I have received there are people strongly in both camps. At this point the only thing I know for sure is that the Squeezebox will serve as my CDP in my system. It is just too darn convenient versus changing-out CDs.
Klaus called from Russia today and left me a message that my amps will ship sometime in the coming week. Although I will still have to use the Denon 3806 AVR as a pre until the Candela arrives it will be great to receive them and start the break-in.
Regards,
Ken
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Hi Ken,
Welcome to AN. I look forward to seeing your posts.
That's great news about the amps shipping so soon!!! You may be in business even sooner than your originally thought!
Try going direct from the SB into the amps until you get your Candella. Although it is not ideal for S/N, you may find it more transparent and satisfying experience than putting Mr. Denon in between, unless you need him for switching or something else.
Turning down the brightness setting on the SB will lower the noise a little too for direct to amps, but is moot point when you run SB at full volume with a preamp.
Seeya
Rich
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Good to see you here, Ken! Welcome!
Congrats on the new amps; I suspect they will prove a very good match for the Timepieces. As time goes on, you may even consider upgrading to the mid-grade or ultimate crossover, but spend some time with the 'standard' parts first. I think you'll be more than a little impressed. :D
As for the SB3, you know how I feel so I won't go bore you by rehashing what I said on the phone. What I will say is that the majority of those I know who feel strongly about using an external DAC haven't heard a SB with Wayne's mods. In fact, I can only think of one or two who've heard anything but a stock SB, in which case I'd use an external DAC, too.
Finally, I agree with Rich; I'd definitely try the SB direct to your amps for the clearest and cleanest sound. It may or may not be to your liking with a stock SB, but it'll give you an inkling of the unit's true potential.
Best regards,
-Jim
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Per my previous post I recently ordered the SP Technology Timepiece 2.1 Speakers with the old standard Studio Finish. Many of you are aware that SP Tech. recently upgraded the crossover in the Timepieces to Mundorf which is considered as a serious upgrade to the previous crossovers. Bob of SP Tech sent me a PM with an offer of the Timepiece 2.1's which I decided to purchase. A portion of his message and his thoughts about the new "standard crossover in the 2.1's" is included below:
"That price includes the Excel woofers, Cardas binding posts and tweeter wire and all Mundorf crossover parts (Standard crossover).
If you have read my recent post on the subject, I have been quite impressed with these "standard" Mundorf components. You can read the break down of what is included on the Mundorf/Crossover price list on our circle. IMHO, they sound so good that I can't see justifying the cost of going with any of the higher cost Mundorf parts for the Timepieces."
Honestly, I must include the comment that I am/was trying to purchase the best possible sound quality for the least amount of dollars. Bob was not telling me the Full Monty Crossover would not sound better, he was just saying it would be difficult for me to justify. I certainly would not be able to justify the Full Monty until I have all top notch components connected to the speakers. However, when I reach that point I will be likely moving up the SP Tech Speaker Chain and moving the 2.1's to a side or rear position in my HT Set-up.
Ken
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As I said on the phone, given where you are in your quest for 2-channel goodness, I wouldn't even consider upgrading the crossover now. My previous post in this thread was meant only as a reminder that, as good as you will soon have it, it can be even better if you wish to go 'whole hog' in the future.
Point being, I consider the crossover upgrade an option for future consideration, way in the future. It is not now nor will it ever be an imperative. Shoot, I don't even have *my* Timepieces upgraded.
I think you did an outstanding job of getting maximum performance for the $$$ spent. Spending more now would be silly IMO... or worse.
-Jim
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Jim is correct....take your time....enjoy....its not a race. :wink:
............... Chris
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Guys, I am a month and a half away from having my amps, preamp and speakers. I don't have any interest in even considering upgrading the crossovers in the speakers. Based on my research there are very few that even own the speakers with the woofer and crossover I will be receiving. There are even fewer, if any, that have heard the 2.1's with higher order crossovers.
I hope the 2.1's will make me as happy as they have many of you. There seems to be one thing for certain about this hobby, no matter what speaker you have there is another one out there or an upgraded model to make you have the wants. It reminds me very much of golf clubs.
I have reached the point where I am comfortable with my equipment and speaker choices. Once I wrestle the Squeezebox Upgrade Question to conclusion I plan to be done for a long time. I started this to build a good 2 channel music system as I was not happy with the 2 channel sound produced from my HT System. If I am happy with the sound when the system comes together I do not plan on chasing the impossible dream of perfect sound. I mean no disrespect to anyone but fishing and golf are my hobbies.
I appreciate all the advice I have obtained from many on this board and on AudioCircle. In the end I am certain you have helped me achieve my goal of building a good sounding 2 channel system.
Ken
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I have reached the point where I am comfortable with my equipment and speaker choices. Once I wrestle the Squeezebox Upgrade Question to conclusion I plan to be done for a long time. I started this to build a good 2 channel music system as I was not happy with the 2 channel sound produced from my HT System. If I am happy with the sound when the system comes together I do not plan on chasing the impossible dream of perfect sound. I mean no disrespect to anyone but fishing and golf are my hobbies.
Ken
You're a wiser man than most of us, Ken! :beer: Many of use are too busy ](*,) #-o to simply enjoy the music. :-({|=
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Back on topic...
I finally got to hear the standard Mundorf version Revelations for several hours today at the SP Tech shop. They are indeed the real deal. Very nice, even listening in a giant wood shop :D
The Odyssey Stratos Extreme Mono SE's are just what the doctor ordered for them - tight bass and very smooth. We discovered the BEL 1001's are definitely NOT the Rev's cup 'o tea. Final setup with Bolder SB2 -> Burson -> Odysseys worked very well. Now let's see, FOUR Mono SE's passive biamped with Ultimate crossovers would be really nice :shock:
No surprise that Bob and Mike were gracious hosts for almost a full day of fun (at least for me). Thanks to both.
More to come later when I have a little more time.
Tom
Wish I would have been able to swing by Bob's shop to hear the Mono SE's with the Rev's. I'm vertically biamping my Timepieces's with standard stereo Khartago amps and I need a bit more juice.
Bigfish
Enjoy your new Timepiece's :D I'm curious to hear your impression of the Mono SE amps with your SP Tech speakers. Can you give some information about your room size & layout? It appears that there are 3 of us now using Odyssey amplification together with SP Tech speakers....yes, there is more than corn in Indiana!!!!!!