Dave Gruisin "Discovered again"

[shep]

The last time I heard this album was thirty years ago. I bought two copies of the LP. I played them over and over. At the time, Sheffield Direct To Disk mastering was the ultimate vinyl sound and the quality of the material was superlative. They brought out a cd (in 80' I think) and it was suppposed to be sonically less appealing. I have been looking for years for a virgin example, not the Jap. re-issue. Finally scored. They were right. I assumed whoever was playing them back had nothing as good as the CDP I have and it would sound great. Nope. Good but not great. Given the absolute maniac attention to detail back then, I can only assume somewhere in the chain, between the master tape and the cd stamper, something was not of the same quality we get today. this album is a real time warp for me. The last time I heard it was with Maggie's, AR 52b sand amp and a good analogue rig. It sounded fabulous and I know my memory is not fooling me. I can't for a moment believe that AR amp was as good as my ice amp. The Maggie's MGIIb were stock and the vinyl
rig was good but not extraordinary. Time...the music still is great though, as is the playing. I paid more for it now than both records in '79!

[BobM]

All of the GRP vinyl was of high quality. Never pass up a Gruisin or Rittenour record if you see one in the bin.

[bpape]

Couldn't agree more. The CD versions were never as spectacular as the Sheffield vinyls.  Thelma Houston is another example of this.

Bryan

[_Scotty_]

The Sheffield Lab sessions were taped with only an eye to documenting the event and having a recording for posterity to place in an archive. The emphasis certainly wasn't on creating an analogue master tape from which high quality recordings could be made. I have the same CDs referenced in preceding posts
and the vinyl just SMOKES them. The information just wasn't captured on the analogue tape in the first place. I think a needle drop on a high quality copy of the records could easily beat the CD copies I have. If I want the music to play in the car or on my iphone with really good sound I will have to get around to doing this.
Scotty

[satfrat]

All of the GRP vinyl was of high quality. Never pass up a Gruisin or Rittenour record if you see one in the bin.

It's Dave Grusin. You won't be finding many Gruisin records in the bins,, but if you do I'd pass it by as quick as you would the street sold Rolex's. 

Cheers,
Robin

[shep]

I guess you are right Scotty altough I don't get why Sheffield even bothered to make the cd in the first place, since their whole emphasis was on great sound. Well maybe they saw the writing on the wall and thought to sqeeze a few more bucks since CD's were about to crunch vinyl sales in the not distant future. Actually I know where at least one genuine Rolex/Gruisen is in a bin (in Montpelier) since it's one of mine. Yes the vinyl smokes the cd and still I am glad to have it. It's a really nice session.

[richidoo]

We need a new analog recording medium. I've been thinking about it for a couple years, still not come up with anything. I'm sure there are physics and processes that would allow a new method of storing the wave without digitizing. The problem is the market has gone to digital playback, I don't think that ship can be turned around. Maybe launch a new ship, just like CD was to vinyl.

A new analog medium could be designed to match digital's dynamic range and separation and low distortion, but without the physical fragility, manufacturing issues, size of vinyl and tape. And with solid state playback system like laser or RF scan, etc.

Certainly the subject for another discussion...

[tmazz]

The Sheffield Lab sessions were taped with only an eye to documenting the event and having a recording for posterity to place in an archive. The emphasis certainly wasn't on creating an analogue master tape from which high quality recordings could be made. I have the same CDs referenced in preceding posts
and the vinyl just SMOKES them. The information just wasn't captured on the analogue tape in the first place. I think a needle drop on a high quality copy of the records could easily beat the CD copies I have. If I want the music to play in the car or on my iphone with really good sound I will have to get around to doing this.
Scotty

I remember reading an article about these recording session many years ago and if my memory serves me correctly the reason that the tapes were made in the first place was so that they would have a quick reference to evaluate the performance that they just put down on disc. Since they were just listening to the music itself to make sure nobody hit any bad notes etc. nobody really paid much attention to the sound quality of the tape. (Remember this was all taking place before the launch of CDs.) You can't blame Sheffield for releasing these on CD the market demanded them and being a for profit outfit Sheffield gladly obliged. It is worth noting that both the Grusin and the Thelma Houston albums were reissued in a "Sheffield Treasury" version after the D2D albums sold out. (There are just so many LP you can press from a master and unlike with taped albums, when a D2D master wears out, you can just cut a new one.) These Treasury LPs were master3ed off of the same tapes as the LPs and while they did not sound as good as the D2D versions, still sold rather well. I have all three versions (D2D, Treasury and CD). Now I am going to have to go home and run myself a shootout.  

Something else to put on the "to-do" list. 

[shep]

I likewise had the D2m and the treasury release and now the cd. There really is a world of difference. Too bad but I now understand better why. I'm not sure in 79/80 they could have made a decent CD anyway. I rather like Rich's idea of a new kind of analogue format but I doubt it's going to happen. I really am grimly attatched to my old redbook 16bit format and have too many cd's now to change and too much money invested in my Marantz (with more to come). I resist the lure of high rez downloads and the whole computer thing. As long as I don't know what I'm missing I'm alright. Occasionally, when they got it right, the cds sound great. Anyway, as you are too polite to mention, at 66 my earing is on the way down anyway  

[rollo]

  The original to my ears betters the Treasury reissue. Besides  using the tape for a reality check during the recording session, I'm sure they were thinking of a reissue as well. I'd like to see acoustic sounds make a 45 reissue of the taped sessions.
  I played all my Sheffield's last night , a trip down memory lane. A good one at that. Thelma was in full glory and Mayorga was his unusual self. BRILLIANT!


charles