AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Digital Audio Devices => Topic started by: shep on April 23, 2010, 08:14:37 AM
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The Dutch guy who does very nice modding is selling a Marantz 63 mk II KI, fully modded. I might just go for it as a backup player or primary one if it is better than mine. CD63mkII-KI_sign_small.jpg Marantz CD63mkII-KI modifications CD63mkII-KI_sign_small.jpg
CD63mkII-KI.jpg
Here are a few pictures of the new recently modified CD63mkII-KI.
For this player, there is also another interesting tweak of the analog filter available on the CD63mkII page.
* CD63mkII-KI_Bitumen_1_small.jpg Bitumen damping, overview
* CD63mkII-KI_Bitumen_2_small.jpg Bitumen damping, close-up 1 and 2
* CD63mkII-KI_LMregs_1_small.jpg Power supply section with LM317/337 regulators (more info here)
* CD63mkII-KI_PSU_back_small.jpg Rear side supply section
* CD63mkII-KI_Analog_4_small.jpg The Flea and analog filter
* CD63mkII-KI_Analog_2_small.jpg Analog section close-up
* CD63mkII-KI_Opamp_close_small.jpg Opamp close-up
* CD63mkII-KI_DAC_SMD_small.jpg SMD capacitors rear side DAC chip
* CD63mkII-KI_Mains_1_small.jpg Mains filter
* Mains filter rear side
* CD63mkII-KI_Mains_3_small.jpg Power supply for The Flea
* CD63mkII-KI_Decoder_2_small.jpg Decoder section and The Flea
* CD63mkII-KI_HF_amp_small.jpg Close-up HF amp
* CD63mkII-KI_Drivers_1_small.jpg Servo and drivers
* CD63mkII-KI_Driver_close_small.jpg Drivers close-up
* Mods.gif Modifications list (PDF)
He's asking about 500$ for it, in pristine condition and with a lot of work under the hood.
The image didn't copy. Here's the link http://www.raylectronics.nl/index_en.html
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http://www.raylectronics.nl/index_en.html
Our audio engineer genius, Sol, has a Marantz CDP for his digital source. He loves it and modded it. It has a good basic DNA, that lends itself to mods. Seems like Ray has put the whole deal into that one. On paper looks like valuable deal when you look at modders list prices for similar work. But the truth is in the listening. You have to have faith in him personally in order to weigh the value of the mod without hearing it. He's got a lot of technical info on the website, and engineered upgrade parts for sale, so it's clear he's not a total joker. Some testimonials from a good handful of customers would help you make the call, if they seemed legit. You could ask him how he thinks it compares to what you already have. If he's trustworthy you should a feel from his answer what's best to do. Read between the lines.
Good luck shep!
Rich
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He has already made a DOS board for me, that is now in England awaiting my 67'. The DOS board is supposed to be a serious piece of kit and a big upgrade. Ray is a very well known DIY guy on the DIY forum and one of the original players that started the epic 1500 page thread of Marantz 63', 67' etc. players. My guy in England (http://www.audioupgrades.co.uk/index.shtml) is a pal of his and totally respects his work, so I'm good. He says that this KI is better than mine at it's present level but no bets at to which will win when mine has the full job done. Actually, as an aside, Marantz were real slippery and not very ethical on this score. In point of fact the so-called signiture Ken I. only differs from the regular 63' in having a copper chassis and a better quality tranformer (and pretty covers on the useless HDAM mudule that all self-respecting diy'ers by-pass immediately) That's from people who have taken these things apart totally.
I will have already sunk 500$ into mine and I don't really need a second machine...but try telling that to my Nervosa :shock: Glad somebody else is interested in this stuff...The DIY world is facinating, full of guys from all countrys and backgrounds. There are some there who know tons more than any tech or designer working for the name brands. It would be really fun to pit these old machines (once fully modded) against modern hi-cost cps like AYON and Abbington. From what I hear, they can hold their own easily and make you think twice about spending 3-5+ grand. Granted the road is long, and in my case I have to turn over this to others since I don't have the smarts, the skills or a very steady hand for this kind of work. Plus you have to know where to source parts etc. There's really no point in saying how it sounds since no one but me and neighbor knows. More's the pity. That's the down-side of living in rural France!
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Well my cdp has gone off to England for it's latest upgrade. This time will be really telling as it's a major one.
I have a reserve on the 63 sig. They are very alike and very different. The Sig. has a custom clock and power supply for same and uses op amps, new sled and laser assembly and generally in better shape, while mine has the dos board instead. Different caps as well. I'm nuts but it's fun! Different flavors. I haven't a clue how either will sound. In theory mine will be slightly more resolving and spacious but the better clock might swing the ballance towards the Sig. Now I just have to wait and pace by the male box.
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At least now with 2 CDPs you will have tunes while you send the other one for more mods. Or maybe one of them will be so good you will never mod again? :-k
Looking forward to your reports, and comparison, and pics!
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I don't really know how to do the pics but I will try! I guess that's better than a thousand words.
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..... Or maybe one of them will be so good you will never mod again? :-k
Not in my lifetime. :rofl:
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Hey Shep, I'm jealous. :mrgreen:
Your CDP has seen more parts of the world than I have. :shock:
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I don't really know how to do the pics but I will try! I guess that's better than a thousand words.
I like your 1000 words too. But pics are fun.
When you are ready to post pics, Create a post, type something, then press the link at the bottom above the Post button, called "Additional Options..." Press the button that says Choose file, and point the navigation applet to the picture file on your 'puter. Press Post and the thumbnails of your pictures will appear at the bottom of your post.
If you want to make the full size pictures embedded in the body of your post, then you need to upload them into your picture gallery first. Use the camera icon in the avatar area to get to your gallery where you will find "upload pictures" links. Then copy the external link for the picture, and paste it into the html tag created in a post when you press the "insert Image" button (framed landscape button.) More complicated, but not too hard for a smart guy like you. Practice a little, you'll get it.
Maybe we should start a "practice posting pictures" thread, let everyone try to post and get some help with errors until everyone has it down. Imagine how pretty our website will be with all those pictures flooding in!!
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I will try all of the above Rich...when the time comes. I'm thinking about a museum: like you can get to see this senior with an antédiluvien cdp. Kids can throw peanuts and if you're really polite I'll play a few tunes...you can all titter. I'll even take the top off and show you the gubbins, if you're really nice..like throw a big MAc or something from time to time. Once these two players are in my paws, I bet they will hold their own (at some imaginary audio assembly). Total cost for both will tally up to something like 1500$ (I've long since stopped counting!)
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Marantz is in a truck somewhere in France. Damn Sunday! 500$ upgrade so it better be damn special this time.
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Got it! battered box and all. And it works! burning in now. It will take 100 hours says the master; new caps and lots of other bits. Sounding good but still a bit tight. Is to be expected.
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YAY! Congrats shep. Can't wait to hear about the verdict. Have fun with the burning in.
Even tho he is the master, he can't hold a candle to your nervosa, so don't be surprised if it takes longer than 100 hours to really settle.
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As this is my first foray into boutique power cords, just wondering how long they take to burn in. It's from Grover. Soldered directly and forever. Can't say much about the plug though. I got it off a French guy . It's looks like the fancy ones and is surely a big step from the off the shelf crap that came with the machine.
As for sound: there are so many variables at work. It's a bit tight and not yet blooming but there are lots more colours and it's more muscular. Jeez the words we use to try and describe :duh
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A power cord from Grover may take a long time to break in. Do you have something you can put it on that's on 24/7 that draws some current? I would think after a few weeks of constant use, it'd be worth comparing to whatever you normally use. If you listen to it in its 'fresh' state you may end up running back to the male box with the cord in its box.
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Shep if your TV has an IEC burn the cord with the TV. It will take 200 hours plus to settle in. I have found 12 hours on 12 hours off to be most affective. The dielectric needs to settle. Leaving on for 24 hr. period does not allow the settling. I used to leave the gear on for 2 weeks straight. No longer as that method was faster. Whatever you decide HAVE FUN trying.
charles
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can't, it's soldered for good in place. I guess I'm looking forward to a few weeks of frustration. The player isn't sounding so great, but I was warned about the new caps, which are from Mundorf, and some Blackgates. It will bloom eventually. Really nice guys to deal with, in UK and Holland. The diy community is really a great fraternity.
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Blackgates will definitely Jekyll and Hyde on you for a few hundred hours in my experience. Unfortunately, a lot more Hyde than Jekyll :twisted:
Bryan
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I know about the Blackgates, or did, but I thought that only applied to a certain series in certain areas? They were notorious, so much so that you couldn't power off or the process had to begin again. I'm pretty sure this applies to ones that are no longer in production, from Japan. 99% are made in the UK now, except the notoriously expensive hand-made silver ones. Caps are a trip :x. V'caps and Deuland and some others are also very unsettling for a long while I believe. Anyway the affects are very audible. You know something good is just there but it's held back. There was a slight loosening last night. I've never used Grover's power cables so that too is a totally new experience. I've had many variations of his interconnects (5!) though.
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can't, it's soldered for good in place. I guess I'm looking forward to a few weeks of frustration. The player isn't sounding so great, but I was warned about the new caps, which are from Mundorf, and some Blackgates. It will bloom eventually. Really nice guys to deal with, in UK and Holland. The diy community is really a great fraternity.
Yes you did mention that my mistake. A little wine some cheese and patience.
charles
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OK, time for a little thread hijack. (although not a complete jacking since I think this information might be helpful to Shep in his current situation.)
Shep is at the point where it seems he just needs to put time on the new CDP to get it settled it. So the question is how do you do that?
I remember reading an article a number of years back that claimed the type of music you play during a given piece of equipments break-in period would have an effect of the units ultimate sound when the break-in was complete. Does this ring a bell with anyone and if so do you have any experience or insights? (particularly as to whats type of music has what effect.)
Rollo already mentioned the 12 on/12 off concept. Any other ideas?
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no hijack, good question. Does seem a little farfetched, even by nervosa standards, but who knows? I'm going for the 12 and 12 method; sounds right to me...So to speak. While on the subject (mine!) does anyone have experience with different kinds of WOOD footers (under cdp)? I found various internet sellers. The options seem to be either ebony or oak or another wood. Among the diy crowd, tonewood, as it is called, seems to be preferred to all other types (sorbathane etc.) We sort of make fun of this break-in period thing but I am really getting tired of it. That says something...that I probably don't want to hear...like stop searching for more, better, best. On a beer budget, silk purses are scarcer than hens teeth, or something like that.
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CDPs reqiure isolation as well as draining of the vibes. The transport picks up vibration. A plinth of some sort is reccomended such as Maple, Spruce, Ebony or a sand box. The plinth should be drained with cones preferably brass. The most affective footers I have used are Sound Fussion from Canada. Herbies makes some good producta as well. Tone wood, spikes, etc will all have a different affect so experimenting to find your nirvana is required. No break- in though :thumb:
charles
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well the amp and the cdp are sittting on two planks (seperated by felt pads) of elm, which is on a two inch think oak bench. I guess I'll go for more wood. I like the idea of Ebony cones. You sure about the no break-in :duh
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Here's an inexpensive source of the most efficient damping polymer in the world, Sorbothane.
Sorbothane Sheets (http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp?pn=3037000&cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Google-_-NULL-_-3037000&mr:trackingCode=AB6D1735-DB81-DE11-8C0A-000423C27502&mr:referralID=NA)
$20 for a square foot. Audioquest gets $25 for a 1/4 sq ft. Use sparingly, it needs a good amount of weight on it to work. Sorbothane damps vibration into oblivion.
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Shep I think you have stumble onto something that could occupy you time while you're waiting for the CDP to break in (and then some :lol:). All of the ideas discussed so far are valid and each one sounds different. (and I am sure there are many more good ideas out there.) The only important questions is which one sounds best to you, in your system.
At last year's Gotham City Flea Market I picked up a set of BDR cones just for kicks. Put them under my CDP and I'll be dammed if I couldn't hear a difference between when they were all point up vs. all point down. Not to mention the 6 other different combination of up & down. :roll: And this is all with just one product! #-o
My only warning is to keep good notes on how each of the things you try effects the sound. Remember you will be working with a moving target. If the sound of the CDP is changing during the break-in period a treatment that produces a positive change in hour 30 may produce a negative change in hour 70 because the base sound of the CDP is different at that point. :roll:
Ahhhhh, nervosa at its finest. :duh
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well the amp and the cdp are sitting on two planks (separated by felt pads) of elm, which is on a two inch think oak bench. I guess I'll go for more wood. I like the idea of Ebony cones. You sure about the no break-in :duh
Cd transport mechanisms are subject to floorborn vibration as well as internal. Depending on the CD players ability to defeat vibration may vary. The key is to eliminate vibration from entering the player. now the draining part with cones etc. can alter the sound. Brass, Ebony, tone wood, etc. will have a different sonic singnature.
First I would isolate then at a later date try some cones. For cheap you can buy a wheelbarrow tire tube or the like and place under the Elm plank in lieu of the felt. I built a sandbox using a Corian plinth [ 2 3/4"the. ] with viscoelastic dampening sheet in between. Soundfusion footers under the CDP. If you have access to a Stethoscope you can hear the difference in vibration. Really.
Break-in NO no no, settling yes yes yes. About 3 days. Have fun.
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thanks for all the "thoughts". Little by little it's breaking in. I'm still partial to the idea of wood footers! The Marantz is obviously a cheap machine and little attention was paid to damping or vibration control. I have lots of bitumin sheets stuck inside, threw out the top cover and replaced it with plywood (still looking for a thick sheet of plexi...that doesn't cost the earth). When I feel breakin has happenbed i will address the feet issue.
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i put on a great recording (fourplay 1991) and turned it up loud; it's just begining to relax and come on song; still not there yet :(
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70 hours in and it's beginning to open up, relax and come forth. 12 hours on and 12 off à la Charles. I think my money will have been well spent.
BTW, Grover says "30" hours for his power cords, but then again "Grover says..." I guess i can spill the beans now; it's been over 6 weeks. He made yet another version; call it the SXa. He didn't want people getting mad for incessant upgrades, so kind of slipped it into production (at least I think so). It is very good, in fact significantly better than all 5 versions i have had. He may get pissed at me for saying this but WTF.
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Ha, I don't think anyone around here is going to get 'mad' or annoyed with Grover's upgrades.. I'm over it and I know a lot of other folks are too.. we get it.. he's into it and there is no reason to stifle his creativity or constant refinement. It's interesting that he chooses not to create different models, though... He's unique in that regard. If you want a certain flavor you have to remember which version it was.. so in effect, he does have models.. but it's difficult to keep track of them... and he doesn't seem to offer different models.. but I've digressed.
Glad to hear his latest IC's are besting his best. But about that PC... I'll be honest and say that I would be very surprised if his power cord stays connected to that CDP in the long run. Get a Black Sand (anything) unterminated if you go that route... The difference between the 2 on a preamp were really night and day in my experience.
-C
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Carl, did you ever have a Grover PC? I vaguely remember that you might have had one last summer when we did the big wire shootout at your place?
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Yeah, he had one... it got Sol, Ken, Steve, and myself to run out of the room in under 10 seconds.... but that was right before he started incorporating changes after demoing the JPS cabling... so not sure what kind of cord Shep has... it's likely 10 or 12 revisions past what we heard at Carl's...