Author Topic: Dedicated Power Outlets  (Read 41217 times)

Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2009, 09:21:52 AM »
Way to go Ken. So the results. Are we a happy camper and why ?


charles
   
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Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2009, 09:34:01 AM »
Paul,
           IMO the cost of such power outlets do not warrant the change over industrial grade power outlets. Are they more affective YES yes and yes. Its the cost of entry that is the problem for me not the end result. For me spending that money to better my power supplies or buy a different component IMO serves my bang for the buck mentality.
  Anyway good luck with your business. Knowing you personally tells me that your products will be well thought out and executed.



charles
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pmkap

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2009, 10:02:20 AM »
Charles,

You're entitled to draw any conclusions you like. I've spent 100s of hours listening to various outlets (a clear admission to the absolute emptiness of my life  :roll:) and have shared my conclusions as to my preferences, in my system. Certainly, spending 300% more on a Jena HBL5352 @ $50 vs a standard a standard HBL5352 @ $14 from stayonline.com might seem silly. But to me, its a bargain.

Regards,
Paul

Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2009, 11:20:38 AM »
Charles,

You're entitled to draw any conclusions you like. I've spent 100s of hours listening to various outlets (a clear admission to the absolute emptiness of my life  :roll:) and have shared my conclusions as to my preferences, in my system. Certainly, spending 300% more on a Jena HBL5352 @ $50 vs a standard a standard HBL5352 @ $14 from stayonline.com might seem silly. But to me, its a bargain.

Regards,
Paul


At that price of $50 its not a bank breaker. I would buy them. Its the exotic connector prices that make me doubt the price performance ratio. If I'm mistaking please let me know. For $25 an Alan Maher Infinity filter IMO will bring more to the table than a different outlet. Since I have not actually compared the difference its my opinion. I will stand corrected if so but so far the Infinity filter has transformed my system unlike any device has. I am not doubting your findings in any way. For $100 the cost of two outlets against [4] Infinity filters IMO it wouldn't even be close. Hey for a grand I can buy an exotic powercord or several of Alans products. Me thinks that the grand is better served with the Maher products. As they are work together to optimize the affect on the system not just one component. So bang for the buck.
   As I've stated many times before its the price of entry. I will be buying those outlets as per your recco. Why because I respect your opinion. Just disagree with the pricing of things, that's all.



charles
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pmkap

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2009, 08:16:41 PM »
Hey Rollo,

How is the audition of the HBL5262 or Jena version of the HBL5362 going?
Its been 6 weeks now, and would think that you'd have made an effort to verify your prognostications and suppositions as to what provides what benefits by actually -
Quote
I will be buying those outlets as per your recco.

Regards,
Paul

Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2009, 08:49:27 AM »
  Not yet Paul. Not on my short list. I have no desire to compare as I respect your findings. I stand corrected. I should NOT have made those comments without a direct comparison. No excuse my bad.


charles
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pmkap

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2009, 02:25:15 PM »
Charles,

Well dang, hearabouts at Chez Kaplan I've just spent 5 weeks with an AM CBF. And I can report that IMS I prefer the benefits of upgrading 1 specific  HBL5362 outlet to a Jena Labs HBL5362 to those provided by a CFB on my audio circuit breaker (or anywhere else). A fellow NYRaver agrees. Please note that this is not a criticism of the CBF, as I've already addressed my mains issues in my own ways. I'd think that other systems with other/less preexisting mains treatment might benefit far more.

As to your comment over AC that the $25 CBF offers more improvements than a $1,000 power cord, again, as a purveyor of $1,000+ power cords, I say to you  pishtosh!  :-P IMS this is definitely not true, but I've no doubt your system you might find otherwise.

I do understand your issues with audiophile pricing. I can only imagine your outrage at the thought of paying Jenifer Crock her $35 surcharge. Amazing!!! She should be paying you!  Perhaps AudioAdvisor has decided to destroy their profits on other powercords, and the Chinese manufactured Pangeas are truly giant killers. I can't compete as I try and to pay my sole part time employee a real living wage, and the payments on my Maybach are quite dear.  8)

I think your enthusiasm for your tweak du jour are well meaning. But, I would appreciate it you'd make you comparisons between things you've actually listened to, preferably in your own system.

Regards,
Paul

Offline bpape

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2009, 05:36:09 PM »
I have 3 of the Jenna modded outlets sitting in a drawer waiting for some time to tear my system apart, do some wiring, install a dedicated CAT 5 line for the SB, remove the backs of my cabinets, and install my new JPS interconnects.  Can't wait to hear the difference but with that many changes going on, I won't be a good subject for raw 1 on 1 comparisons.

I wasn't a big power cord guy either until I put some of Paul's cords in my system.  Then the new ones came - same result.  They're not leaving...  We used them again at RMAF last year - same result.  It's just another way to remove another limitation in the system.  Power, depth, extension, detail, clarity, etc.  My only regret is that I don't have a filtered cord for my digital sources.  My understanding is that he's not going to make those any more (unless I can talk him in to making one for me ;) )

In short, I trust Paul's ears.  He hears the same things I do.  Whatever he's sent me does what he says and what I expect and want.  I bought the outlets blind on his recommendation and have absolutely no doubt that they'll be an improvement from what I currently have which are industrial grade Hubbels with the contacts hand polished.

Bryan
« Last Edit: December 12, 2009, 05:52:49 PM by bpape »
I am serious... and don't call me Shirley

Bigfish8

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2009, 05:42:02 PM »
I have 3 of the Jenna modded outlets sitting in a drawer waiting for some time to tear my system apart, do some wiring, install a dedicated CAT 5 line for the SB, remove the backs of my cabinets, and install my new JPS interconnects.  Can't wait to hear the difference but with that many changes going on, I won't be a good subject for raw 1 on 1 comparisons.

Bryan

Hi Bryan:

You have a lot of nice stuff to add to your system.  Those purple ICs are just incredible!

Ken

Offline bpape

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2009, 05:44:08 PM »
Yup.  Shane was nice enough ( or sneaky enough ) to send me a demo pair to try.  Tried them in 3 different systems and they always had the same improvements.  My system is kinda tough to just 'try' things as I need a 3.5 meter pair for my living room system and a 2 meter pair for my downstairs system.

Bryan
I am serious... and don't call me Shirley

Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2009, 07:48:55 AM »
  Interesting. My concern though with the comparison is that your mains were previously treated. Are we comparing apples to apples ? My mains have no treatment other than the CBF. Adding two more, one at the wire bundle and one at the outlet has made further improvements. I cannot say how they fare against a $1000+ cord but for $75 I'm a happy camper.
   Pricing of cables and powercords is what I have an issue with. That's all. I have bought many cables at the high price. What I heard IMS is that yes most of the times overall the high priced cable edged out the lessor priced cable, however NOT to the degree in the difference in price. I have a difficult time rationalizing the cost difference. Another issue is depending on what gear one has, has a large impact on the performance of the PC as the power supply may have been designed to purify the power better than others. IMO much of what we listen to derives from the quality of the power supply.   But that's me, and believe not alone with that premise.    Now if a Manf. has a brick and mortar manf. site, overhead, employees, advertising and R&D YES by all means the pricing is warranted. Retail is approx.set at 5x the cost. Its a business. Then again if one is making them in the garage or kitchen then its another matter IMO. I do not believe in paying for the "design" or designers name. For me that is sweat equity just like any other business venture. The design concept is just that, a concept. Now testing, listening, that's the chance one MUST take to find out if the concept actually works.
  OK one needs [4] PCs at say $1100 each. I look at $4400 and think for that money a new CDP, DAC, PREAMP :thumb: NOS tubes, upgraded power supplies whatever. Now if I could buy the same [4] cords for $1600 I'm in like Flynn. My business model is sell more at a lessor price than a few at high price. I would sell direct and eliminate the dealers 40% or better markup. Start a tour. Lend out to other component Manfs and try to land one to supply with their gear as standard fare [ the toughest to accomplish, wonder why]
   The Pangea for the money may or not be a cord that I would keep but for the money its worth a try. If it sucks it gets returned with a MBG. So for the small return shipping amount I can have some fun trying. Isn't that what this is all about having fun.


charles
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Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2009, 07:57:07 AM »
  BTW just looked at the Alan Maher site didn't notice any surcharge. Maybe I missed it. However they are offering a 25% discount on bulk orders.
  As far as tweak of the day. Not my thing. It was the numerous, I repeat numerous positive reviews at AC and here that enticed me. To date not one negative experience posted that I noticed. 

charles
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 08:36:49 AM by rollo »
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pmkap

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2009, 04:53:36 PM »
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=1918.msg19378#msg19378
....
 Remember I was a Manf. and dealer. So do not talk to me about pricing of cords ICs and the like. One of the highest profit margin items there is in all of audio.
   Yeah this time you pissed me off. You are entitled to your opinion as well as me but your negative attitude is obvious. Yes I'm sensitive.
Indeed, you do appear quite sensitive. So much so that it pervades your posts. I take it, your 'no slouch' power cords were not a successful ongoing enterprise? Even with those profit margins? So I take it that your lack of success qualifies you as an expert that can divine relative contributions miraculously, plucked from your arse?

 Interesting. My concern though with the comparison is that your mains were previously treated. Are we comparing apples to apples ? My mains have no treatment other than the CBF. Adding two more, one at the wire bundle and one at the outlet has made further improvements. I cannot say how they fare against a $1000+ cord but for $75 I'm a happy camper.

Concerned???? Don't presume to think I'm like you, so lacking in discipline, with the empirical curiosity of a turnip, that I would not avail myself of such an opportunity? Indeed, I did pull my power conditioners, but left the power cords and outlets, and tried both one and two CBFs. And IMS, my $1,600 retail dual series conditioner provided more benefit IMO, than $50 in CBFs. What a surprise! The comparison is ludicrous, a fanboy's ejaculation.
Alan has no dog in this fight. He has complementry products, more expensive, which would provide better performance than CBFs alone.

Quote
  Pricing of cables and powercords is what I have an issue with. That's all. I have bought many cables at the high price. What I heard IMS is that yes most of the times overall the high priced cable edged out the lessor priced cable, however NOT to the degree in the difference in price. I have a difficult time rationalizing the cost difference. Another issue is depending on what gear one has, has a large impact on the performance of the PC as the power supply may have been designed to purify the power better than others. IMO much of what we listen to derives from the quality of the power supply.   But that's me, and believe not alone with that premise.    Now if a Manf. has a brick and mortar manf. site, overhead, employees, advertising and R&D YES by all means the pricing is warranted. Retail is approx.set at 5x the cost. Its a business. Then again if one is making them in the garage or kitchen then its another matter IMO. I do not believe in paying for the "design" or designers name. For me that is sweat equity just like any other business venture. The design concept is just that, a concept. Now testing, listening, that's the chance one MUST take to find out if the concept actually works.

So how did it go with folk's willingness to pay for YOUR  R&D, Testing, Evaluation, overhead, labor costs, etc.....?

 
Quote
 OK one needs [4] PCs at say $1100 each. I look at $4400 and think for that money a new CDP, DAC, PREAMP :thumb: NOS tubes, upgraded power supplies whatever. Now if I could buy the same [4] cords for $1600 I'm in like Flynn. My business model is sell more at a lessor price than a few at high price. I would sell direct and eliminate the dealers 40% or better markup. Start a tour. Lend out to other component Manfs and try to land one to supply with their gear as standard fare [ the toughest to accomplish, wonder why]
   The Pangea for the money may or not be a cord that I would keep but for the money its worth a try. If it sucks it gets returned with a MBG. So for the small return shipping amount I can have some fun trying. Isn't that what this is all about having fun.

If your idea of fun is petty, ill informed, chickenshit attacks on others business efforts, in order to assuage your damaged ego, yes.
As to your 'bidness model'.... Who is stopping you?
What exactly is keeping you from walking the walk?

If you'd actually had evaluated the Pangea, I could actually understand your fanboy posts. Otherwise, its shilling, simply one of your mastrubatory ramblings, an amalgam of treacle and bluster puss, aided by potshots at kit you've not heard, signifying nothing other than your own 'issues'.


« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 09:27:04 PM by pmkap »

AcidJazz

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2009, 11:08:32 PM »
Quote
I can't compete as I try and to pay my sole part time employee a real living wage, and the payments on my Maybach are quite dear.
:lol: Are you talkin' bout your personal cable monkey?  :rofl:

Well, I have to agree with the super-duper special Jenna outlet, they represent a bigger improvement in the sonics (at least in my system) than the AMICBF.
I tried two of the ICBF in my system and thought it 'dampened' down the dynamics too much. Currently I am using just one at my wall outlet. Its a subtle change at best. Doesn't seem to hurt the quality so I am leaving it in for now (4week +), jury is still out on whether I like what it brings or not.
The Jenna outlets were an immediate step up in sound quality, better details, darker background, better instrument suspension in space.

Offline rollo

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Re: Dedicated Power Outlets
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2009, 09:48:47 AM »
Paul. :lol: You do assume an awful lot. My powercord was not intended to be a major business for me as I owned and operated a very successfull Architectural and Constr. mgmt. co. at the time and frankly had no time. Besides I was turned off by the dealers and shops. I did not want to play the game so I decided not to pursue the effort. Business was too good.   At the time my cost was approx. $32 per cord. I was selling them at $75. Made them in my kitchen. :roll:
   Did not charge for labor as it was fun to do myself being an enthusiast. Actually the design was not mine. We retained Electrical Engineers in our business to design the lighting, power,etc. Chester Schiff PE was the designer, not me WTF did I know. I am an Architect not a PE. 
   Never claimed to be an expert just aware of actual costs involved. Its not rocket science for goodness sake. Failure don't think so. CHOICE. Again you assume too much.
   Well good for you your $1600 PC performed better than a $25 CBF. The CBF is not a system conditioner, so a comparison is silly.  Yes AM offers several products for a fair price. I have not tried any others to date but will when I can . With so many positive hands on reviews by buyers they are worth a try IMO, that's all. Read them. BTW shilling? Oye ! They sell themselves with no help from me. Read the reviews.
 
   My business model is a concept that I believe in and feel has Merritt. I have zero interest in being in business again. I love my free time playing Golf, Paddleball, cooking and listening to music. I'm content with my life and have nothing to prove.
  My idea of fun is trying different things in my system. Loving my JPS SC3 ICs :drool: at the moment. Attacks, one should look in the mirror. Reading your post with its personal name calling, innuendos and insults speaks for itself.
   If you read my posts I did evaluate the cord in my buddies system and in mine. That is why there is a question mark in the Pangea subject. :duh I asked is it the real deal. NOT IT IS. The jury is still out.  Why does that offend you ?
    Ego? Another cheap shot. I am a self made man retired at 48 an accomplished Golf instructor and tournament winner. My ego is fine thank you.
   Paul different opinions is what makes the world go round. I stood corrected and posted it. So where is your facility? Do you manf. the wire ? Do you make the connectors ? If so your prices are understandable. If not and just assembled in your home, what is the justification of your pricing ? Design ? Or designed? :rofl:
  Be a nice boy



charles
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