Power cord cost vs. cost of equipment. How much did you spend?

[sleepyguy24]

Hi everyone

I couldn't find a thread in the forum pertaining to my exact question so I figure I'd ask. Hopefully it doesn't piss off any members as they probably have seen it throughout the years in one form or another.

When you bought or built your power cords did you take into account what you paid or the dollar value of the equipment you were going to use the cord with? If so what were the percentages or amounts you spent on the cord vs. the cost/value of the equipment?

I'm trying to talk myself into auditioning/buying Triode Pete's power cords when my 2.1 channel rig is put back together. I'm wondering though if I'm overspending on the accessories for them since a lot of my gear isn't big buck high-end like the gear I've read used with Triode Pete's power cords in this forum and others.

Current cable I have on all my equipment that has an IEC connection.

Atlona Pro Home Theater Power Cable

http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-Home-Theater-Power-Cable/dp/tech-data/B000HBXALS/ref=de_a_smtd

Gear I use these cords with.

Oppo BDP-83SE
Vincent SA-93 and Vincent SP-994

stock picture


Thanks everyone and I look fwd to the discussion.

[BobM]

I think going upscale on power cords and interconnects and speaker cables and tube rolling are all ways to fine tune a system once you are happy with the basic sound you are altready getting with the stock equipment. If you need more transparency, or tighter bass or more top end tinkle, or better soundstaging and imaging, then these are all inmprovable by playing with these other accessories.

As for cost, well that is all in one's personal budget. I don't think, for example that it makes sense to by a $2000 power cord if you have a $1000 amp. That extra money would be far better spent getting a better amp to start with. But Pete's cables are pretty cost effective and really sound nice on most systems where they have been tried, on both expensive and inexpensive equipment.

[mdconnelly]

I think the easiest answer is to try it and see if you hear improvements.  Pete's cords are a great bang-for-the-buck deal but, of course, only if they do sound better (your ears, your system) and it fits your budget and sensibilities. 

If I'm being honest, it took me awhile to really hear how a good power cord really does improve the sound.  There was quite awhile where I was convinced that spending lots of $$ on wire, any wire, was the dark side of this hobby.   It took time and work on my part (with a little help from my friends to learn to hear the differences.  While the changes can occasionally be substantial, they are often subtle and take time to discern the differences.  I don't think you need a megabuck system to hear those differences.  But, hey, you've got a nice system there!

[djdube525]

I'm such a... um... frugal person... it's the latent Yankee (Maine) in me... when I saw a box of equipment that was going to get sent to electronic recycling at work filled with power cords, I found several that were made with Belden 83802 (wire that Bob Crump used for his "Asylum Power Cord"... ~$20 later per cord for new connectors and I was off and running.

I've done a few... not a lot.

Dave

[richidoo]

I bought 1 Black Sands Silver Ref 5 cables on the AN group buy soon after I started posting here. I shocked myself that I was gullible enough to spend so much money on power cables when I was already content with the vinyl POS that came with the amp (50W Cary integrated.)  I figured I did it just so I could be one of the guys. Then a month later I got some better mono amps and needed another PC. John was gracious to extend the GB price again, and I was able to compare the vinyl stock cords to the Black Sands. It was a minor but obvious improvement, so I found a way to justify the cost in my head.

I have since heard PCs that work better than the Black Sands, but I haven't upgraded yet. These are good enough for now. The best PC I have ever heard is JPS Kaptovator. It's unreal what it does, but it's wicked pricey, like $1200/m? JPS PowerAC+ is better than my Black Sand for the same price, but I keep the BS because I like having something from John in my system and it's plenty good enough for my needs.  

I mostly listen to Sol's integrated with captive vinyl cord, it is my favorite amp, so I question the "need" for upgrade cords. He is building a new prototype with IEC, so then want becomes need.

[JBryan]

My experiences lead me to think that the PC's that come in the box with most gear can easily be bettered (same goes for IC's and speaker wire) and you don't have to spend a lot of money to get most of the improvement in sound that PC's can offer. Like capacitors and tubes, the highest quality and best designed PC's will allow for the best sound your component has to offer...but they tend to come with pretty high price tags.

Take a look at the PC that came with your amp, chances are that it was thrown in so you had something to get your amp up and running so you wouldn't have to go out and buy one (and probably be pissed about it). So its there for the company's goodwill and is as cheap as PC's come. Check out the materials, plug and cord and then go find a better quality PC like a hospital-grade cord - they run anywhere from $10-50 (I actually bought a box of Hirakawa HG cords for $3 ea. at a hamfest).

That modest step up the ladder in quality (and price) will get the sound of your amp within 10% or so of the best PC's out there and should allow you to hear the improvement over your freebie cord. Be aware that it wont be a revelatory experience...nothing 'Night and Day' and a noisy amp will still be noisy regardless on how much you spend on PC's. While subtle, you should be able to discern things like a quieter/blacker background, better bass control, cleaner, more defined image and perhaps a touch more detail in the mids. All very nuanced but there none the less and those are the things you can expect more of, in very small doses, as you move up the ladder and listen to better PC's (read: $$$).

The bottom line is that you don't have to spend a great deal of money to hear what a nice PC can do for your system and its up to you to determine at what point (and price) the marginal improvement is too slight for you and your gear. Have fun!

[mdconnelly]

I totally agree with JBryan.  Another path to cheap entry is buying used.  There are a ton of them on A'gon or watch the classifieds here on AN or on AC.  In fact, I'll bet most of us audiophools have a closet full of spare PCs that we tried over the years.  Pangea anyone?

[rollo]

  Some good advice here. It is really hard to put a number on it. It is up to the buyer. However as Bob mentioned one does not spend more than the component.
  Just need to try some out. Actually a combo of JPS [ digital cord ] and Triode Wire Labs make a great combo. The PIAudio digital cord as well. Try 8ga TWL for Amp and either PIA or JPS on digital.
    Disclaimer; We are dealers for TWL and PIA.


charles
 

[StereoNut]

SG24:

I also agree with Bob & Rollo in regards to not spending more on a power cord than the component itself, but Pete's "TWL" cords are a GREAT value. Of course, system synergy and your ears/taste will be the determining factor - but that goes for any cords you audition.

Just my 2¢

SN

[Carlman]

My rule of thumb: 10% of component cost is my budget for each associated cord.
So, a $4,k amp gets a $400 cord, and $400 in speaker cables.
A 2,k preamp gets a $200 IC and $200 PC.
etc.

I'm talking my real budget, what I spend... not msrp or what it should cost... just what it does cost, new or used.

So that's been my general rule of thumb for a while... and that hits my breakover point generally.  (Breakover point: That magic place where there is significant improvement, good synergy is there, but I know it could be a little better... but would cost a LOT more.)

This is all 'generally'.  Sometimes a cheap cord works great and other times an expensive one makes for an 'aha' moment.  In my system, I'm a little cheaper and a little more expensive here and there... The average is about 10%.

-C

[StereoNut]

My rule of thumb: 10% of component cost is my budget for each associated cord.
So, a $4,k amp gets a $400 cord, and $400 in speaker cables.
A 2,k preamp gets a $200 IC and $200 PC.
etc.

I'm talking my real budget, what I spend... not msrp or what it should cost... just what it does cost, new or used.

So that's been my general rule of thumb for a while... and that hits my breakover point generally.  (Breakover point: That magic place where there is significant improvement, good synergy is there, but I know it could be a little better... but would cost a LOT more.)

This is all 'generally'.  Sometimes a cheap cord works great and other times an expensive one makes for an 'aha' moment.  In my system, I'm a little cheaper and a little more expensive here and there... The average is about 10%.

-C

Carl

I like your 10% rule, but it brings up a question to me. What do you use as your component cost in this equation?

E.g.: My Naim NAP 250 amp cost me $700.00 used (yes it's an older model that goes back a good 20 years or so)
but it sold for $4750.00 new.

So does it "deserve" a $70.00 cord or a $475.00 cord.

Thanks!
SN

[BobM]

Campy, if you could sell your Naim and put those proceeds plus an extra $450 toward a new component that would be significantly better than your Naim, then that's the way to go I think.

If you really like the Naim and plan on keeping it, and a $450 cord makes a difference to your ears, and can swing the cash, then that may be your best tweaky upgrade option. Remember, you can always reuse that cord on another component down the road too.

[tmazz]

I think the bottom line here is that when cords are cheap (like Pangea) you can look at them and evaluate their purchase as you would any other tweak. But when the price of the cord approached that of a component then you need to evaluate it the same way that you would any other hardware purchase and look at not only what kind of SQ improvement does it give me, but also think about what kind of SQ improvement could I get if I sold the original component and replaced it using a budget of what I sold it for plus what I would be paying for this prospective cord. The answer to that question is going to vary from situation to situation and from person to person in the same situation, but I think it is a though process that needs to be engaged if you are going to maximize the SQ potential of your system.

[StereoNut]

Campy, if you could sell your Naim and put those proceeds plus an extra $450 toward a new component that would be significantly better than your Naim, then that's the way to go I think.

If you really like the Naim and plan on keeping it, and a $450 cord makes a difference to your ears, and can swing the cash, then that may be your best tweaky upgrade option. Remember, you can always reuse that cord on another component down the road too.

Thanks Bob, but I was only using my system as an example, so I could illustrate my question to Carl better.  At this point in time, I have no intention of replacing my Naim amp, nor buying a new power cord for it.  (At least not anytime soon.  I'm still trying to get a "baseline" on my system with my upgraded Von Schweikerts still breaking in - so the last thing I need to do is add more variables to the mix!) BTW - I have one of Pete's TWL 8ga. cords there now and things sound just fine.  

Bill

[Carlman]

I would go with the 'new' price.. or close to it for my 10% rule.  If I got a 4,k amp for $400 in an estate sale, I'd still give it the full budget for cables.... if not more due to the savings on the component.  

I'll be giving Pete's cord a listen tomorrow morning thanks to Rich.  I'll probably swap it in and out of my preamp, that's where the most difference is usually heard.

-C