Author Topic: Back into vinyl....... Again  (Read 9308 times)

2two

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 04:51:23 PM »
Is this not a discussion forum ?

Offline Response Audio

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2012, 06:16:11 PM »
Hey Jerome
Maybe I missed it in another thread but I am very interested in seeing/hearing more about your vinyl rig.

Maybe this would be a good three to start...  I'll do that now.
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jsaliga

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2012, 06:26:41 PM »


You can find more of the story about the Garrard 401 here in this thread.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3474.0

Contrary to what has been asserted, I have absolute confidence that my choices were right for me.  I'm not interested in, nor do I require, the approval of others.

I hope your project turns out well for you.

--Jerome

Offline etcarroll

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2012, 06:36:27 PM »
Speaking of the 401, did you ever post your thoughts on the Aesthetix Rhea phono preamp?
"...if you want to enjoy your gear, don't listen to anything that might be better."

jsaliga

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2012, 06:55:16 PM »
I don't think I ever did Gene, but I'll give you the condensed version here.

The Rhea, like every tube phono preamp I have ever heard that uses three tube-driven gain stages, has tube rush that is audible with no music playing.  Keep in mind that I listen at fairly loud volume.  I am using very low noise cryo treated tubes.  Is the tube rush a problem?  Not for me it isn't, but I can see how some might be bothered by it.  I think the Rhea sounds terrific when the music is playing and I cannot detect any tube noise during soft passages of music.

That said, this phono preamp is sonically very similar to other high quality tube phono-preamps that I have used and heard.  The RSA F-117 Nighthawk solid state phono preamp that I used to own was dead quiet thanks to its lithium-ion battery.  But with music playing I don't think it sounded better than the Rhea.

The big buying point with the Rhea for me is its three channels.  It meets my needs because I can hook all of my tonearms up on dedicated channels each with their own customized gain and loading settings.  So I can go from listing to a record in my SOTA Star Sapphire to a mono LP on the Garrard with the press of button on the Rhea.

--Jerome
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 07:00:41 PM by jsaliga »

Offline Response Audio

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2012, 07:01:47 PM »
Jerome
Your custom table stunning to say the least. From what I saw, your homework was well worth it. I too have been looking at 12" arms for the next custom built table I mentioned. Still looking for some sources for additional turntable parts. Nothing in particular but I would like to see additional options for motors and plinths before making final decisions.
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jsaliga

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2012, 05:48:00 AM »
Thanks.  I'm happy with the way the project turned out. 

I did it because I have always loved the classic Garrard 301/401 and Thorens TD124 decks.  I did not build this table because I expected it to be better than my SOTA Star Sapphire, I did it simply because I wanted it -- which is more than reason enough as far as I am concerned.  When I got the Garrard up and running I thought about selling the SOTA.  Someone on AN had expressed interest in buying it...but they did not aggressively pursue it and I have changed my mind.  I will keep the SOTA.  I plan to send it back to the manufacturer and get it upgraded to series IV parts, but will keep the Koa wood plinth since SOTA no longer offers it as a custom finish.

As far as the 12" tonearm is concerned, I really don't think it makes a world of difference.  It tracks more accurately than a 9" arm but the difference it makes on the sound is very hard for me to detect.  I have tried the Ortofon SPU Gold Reference on both the 9" and 12" arm and can't really hear a difference.  Perhaps a smidgen less surface noise on some LPs.  With a different cartridge I might hear a greater difference...perhaps.

If someone were to ask for my advice I would tell them what I said above, and further suggest that hearing it for yourself is the only way to satisfy your curiosity.  Just because I really can't hear any tangible benefits of a 12" arm doesn't mean that someone else won't.

--Jerome

Offline Response Audio

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2012, 06:37:10 AM »
 
Quote
I did it simply because I wanted it -- which is more than reason enough as far as I am concerned

 I think that sums up the spirit of this hobby. Many of the custom pieces I build for myself is simply because that is what I want. Sometimes its not easy to separate being a manufacturer from being a hobbyist but the hobby part of it is what keeps me sane. I often come in on weekends or late at night just to 'play around' which is my down time. Some people go play golf or whatever to escape the rat race of every day life. For me its being at the shop without they ringing of phones.

Maybe some day I'll even get time to sit down and listen to music :?

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Offline JBryan

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2012, 07:42:20 AM »
System synergy is a huge consideration even when it comes to furniture. A suspended TT will sound quite different on a concrete slab bolted to the floor than it will on a small table or bookcase and the same goes for a high-mass, non-suspended TT. On my old teak media shelf, I preferred the delicacy and 'air' of the Oracle TT over the authoritative bottom end and fuller sound of the VPI TNT and the Teres TT's. When I moved to wall mounted granite shelves and later, thick hardwood slabs, the VPI sounded the best (I used the same SME arm and Shelter cart on all 3 TT's).

I've gone through my share of TT's, arms  and carts but i spent considerably more time and effort auditioning phono pres and my preference is definitely bent toward tubed phono pres and stages. I've heard several SS pres that sound excellent and I would be quite happy with but tubes add a little something that I appreciate, even if its only an aesthetic and being able to roll tubes allows me to add a touch of nuance that may have a better fit with the rest of the system.

As Jerome mentioned, many tubed pres have that fated 'tube rush', usually at higher volumes or with LOMC carts which some folks accept as inherent with tubes. I also have +106dB efficient speaks so any upstream circuit noises become quite obvious and are above my threshold for compromise.

I've had over 25 phono pres and stages in my system over the years with close to a third being SS and the rest tubed. One of the very first checks I perform is for noise, after warm-up, I simply turn the volume up beyond levels that I would ever listen to. If I hear the dreaded 'rush' or any noise at all, off the bat I'm biased against the component and if I can't alleviate the problem with new tubes or cables, the piece is ultimately destined for a better home. I tend to listen at louder than normal levels and with no music playing, if I can tell that the system is on (aside from glowing tubes and lights), there's a noise problem.

To be fair, I have heard almost as many noisy SS pieces as tubed but the pieces I've held onto are all tubed and surprisingly, most are phono stages in preamps rather than stand-alone phono pres. My favorite pres have stages based on variations of the Loesch circuit.

The 2 that I am presently rotating in my system are a James Burgess 'Full Function' pre with transformer step ups and a Supratek Syrah with FET's. Both are extremely quiet and musical with the Burgess having a better sounding line stage and the Syrah being more adjustable and slightly more punch in the bass. The Burgess responds better to tube rolling though the Syrah offers more tube choices. As i mainly listen to records in that system, its a bit of a toss up though I run the Syrah more often than the Burgess. Eventually, I will settle on one...Luckily, its not a race.

Offline BobM

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2012, 08:27:47 AM »
I'm looking forward to hearing the new Manley Chinook. If it's anywhere near as good as the Steelhead it will be a steal at $2200 list.
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jsaliga

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2012, 11:00:50 AM »
I don't want to make too much of the tube rush.  It isn't like I have a lot of tube noise blasting out of my speakers at listening volume.  It is very faint, even at listening volume, but I do notice it with the stylus off of the record.  Typical vinyl surface noise is much louder so when the stylus drops into the record groove the tube rush is below the LP noise floor and I cannot hear it.  For some that might be a deal breaker, but as Bryan noted such a person might find virtually any tube phono preamp unacceptable.  I like the sound of the Rhea just fine and couldn't be happier with it.



The Rhea wins huge where ergonomic design and human engineering are concerned.  And in a set up like mine where I have three tonearms connected and the capacity to change cartridges very quickly this is a big deal.  Unlike most phono preamps where gain and loading are set via dip switches, the Rhea is super easy to change settings with.  Simply press the channel number you want to configure, and then press the gain or loading button on the right.  With the gain or loading setting enabled, you change values by pressing on the right side of the LED display to increase the setting, and left side of the display to decrease.  When the value is where you want it, disable the gain or loading button.  It really is a work of art.

--Jerome
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 11:21:28 AM by jsaliga »

Offline sleepyguy24

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2012, 11:23:05 AM »
:drool: Damn there are some beautiful turntables mentioned here. I'm scared to ask how much they weigh. Especially the one with the 6ft Maple slab as a plinth. I thought my Thorens TD 125 was heavy. I think I'd pull a muscle trying to move any the tables shown.

Offline tmazz

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Re: Back into vinyl....... Again
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2012, 06:52:23 AM »
So let the fun continue  before I get banned

Don't worry Mike, you won't get banned. Bryston does not make turntables.  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Remember, it's all about the music........

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