AudioNervosa
Systemic Development => Analog Devices => Topic started by: richidoo on March 30, 2007, 10:13:32 AM
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I put a Shure M97xe cartridge that I had from pre-audiophile days onto a Technics SL-Q2. I am using a Bellari tube phono pre. I have tracking force set to 1.75g as recommended by Shure. At least according to the twist gage on the tonearm.
I lined up the cartridge with the headshell as straight as I could by eye, probably within 1-2 degrees.
How do I set the anti-skate? Any other adjustments I can make to improve the performance?
Based on previous comments about the Technics 1200 in this forum, I assume this Q2 is not much better, being a consumer version. There is a new SOTA Comet available to me at a good price, as well as Sumiko Cartridges. Probably a lot better than the Technics right? Will I notice the difference?
I don't want to spend a lot on this as we have only 200 well used records and only a couple dozen clean ones, but I recognize even with this old 80s junker that TT has something very nice to offer :)
Thanks for any input.
Rich
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I'm pretty sure that you've got an anti-skate dial near the arm base?
It should set-up like most arms...start with everything set to zero; balance the arm; then set the force; then match the skate dial to the same setting as the force dial..maybe a bit less. I'm not familiar with that 'table, but I'm sure it's pretty basic. Still got the owner's manual? If not, you can Google your 'table and download one..maybe from lpgear.
Shure M97 is fine. Don't think you'd like Blue Points, based on your other posts. I'm fond of SOTA 'tables. The Comet is a screaming deal, IMO.
WEEZ
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I found the manual on vinylengine.com. Thanks for the tip.
I balanced the tone arm, set the force and skate. I have never done that before, never had a new TT, never read a manual! That's cool. You truly are a wealth of useful information WEEZ! I had the force set to ~1.75g, but since the arm was never balanced that was meaningless setting.
I will check out the Comet. As far as I know it has no suspension. Is that intended to be used on a vibration isolation furniture of some sort? We have a problem of not being able to walk near the TT or it will skip. Typical engineered joist wooden floor. TT is placed on ordinary wooden furniture near the speakers. I know some LF vibration will get in there. I know I am asking dangerous questions with expensive answers. Please don't let me fall into that hole!
What TT are you using WEEZ?
Edit: Oops! I see, SOTA Jewel. Tx
Thanks
Rich
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Rich,
You would be correct, re: "no suspension' on the Comet. (likely not on your Technics, either...) There are many schools of thought on the advantages/dis-advantages of suspended vs. non-suspended. I'll avoid that subject, as it's long, complicated, and in the end...no definate useful conclusions :? .
To me, the secret of good vinyl playback is pretty basic:
1) clean records
2) care in cartridge/arm set-up and alignment
3) isolation of the TT
Usually, (when it comes to point #3) whether the 'table is suspended or not.. having the unit 'isolated' is a good thing. When you realize that the 'table is a 'machine' and the cartridge is a 'transducer'...it only makes sense to isolate it from the other equipment. A simple method is just to place it on a different stand or shelf from the amplifier(s). And if the speakers are coupled to the floor...(desireable) all the more reason to 'isolate' the turntable :) . Isoblocks (or similar) from Mapleshade are cheap and they work.
As to the Comet, like I said, it's a screaming deal. Usually available for around $1k (new) with a Rega arm. I can't think of a better deal at it's price.
:twisted:
WEEZ!
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Thanks WEEZ
I checked out my Mapleshade catalog for the Isoblocks. Looks interesting, in the usual Mapleshade way. It is fun to read his stuff. Everything I have read about damping suggests the load is critical to the performance of a given damping material. Like sorbothane semisphere of a certain size and hardness works best with an exact amount of weight on it. Less or more are not as effective damping.
Small Isoblocks spec anything under 100pounds. Do I have to try to hit a certain weight for them to work best? Add a marble slab under the TT or something? Or can I just put them under the TT and be done with it?
I was thinking of designing a sorbothane dot suspension platform with a self damping material like acrylic or corian plate. With sorbothane I can get the right crush factor for max damping, but the isoblocks don't seem to go that route. They would certainly be less expensive and easier! What has been your experience in using them?
I know that some turntables take all day to set up. Mine has simple controls and is all molded plastic so I think I have mexed out the tweak factor, except maybe measuring the alignment instead of going by eye. Any other setup things you can suggest with this ultra low cost rig?
I used to use discwasher products to get the dust off records, but I also listened to them so much that they just sat on the TT and got dirt ground in over the years. Can you recommend a cleaning system to deal with old very dirty records? I am thinking along the lines of something that will penetrate and dissolve or digest the crap. I have tried washing them with soap and water :shock: but it had little effect on the background noise.
Thanks
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Well, there's lots of ways you can accomplish what you need to do. I only suggested the Isoblocks 'cause they're pretty cheap and they work. (Some of the Mapleshade stuff is pretty tweakie and just plain wierd, I admit. :) )
If you use a platform (no need to buy expensive Mapleshade) maybe 2" butcher block on top of the Isoblocks and the 'table on top of that you'll be pleased. (Just size the platform to accomodate a possible move upward to the SOTA :lol: ).
For cleaning, a vacuum machine works best. But a mild liquid soap; distilled water; and a very soft brush works too. It's just tedious and messy and stuff.
When vinyl is clean; and the TT is set-up well...you'll be scrounging around at flea markets, yard sales, and used record stores like the rest of us vinyl sicko's do and having a hell of a good time!
WEEZ
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Thank You!
:D
It's coming, I can feel it. I'll see what I can do with a better support. When he sees the record player set up next visit, my father will get to say, "I told you so" yet again. He likes records for the reading material on the jackets. :lol:
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Yeah, us old farts can't hardly read the liner notes on CD's.. :x
"Hey, dear...does that say Jon Fadis?"
"I'm not sure. Sounds like him, though."
"Sure does, doesn't it."
"What difference does it make..you like the trumpet, right?
"Yes, dear. I do."
:?
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Very good read indeed! My vinyl adventure is turning into a deep,dark rabbit hole.I started with a Rega Planar 2,grado gold cart. and a 25.00 phono pre. I upgraded to a dynavector p-75 then it happened.I got my ears on a Sota sapphire,dynavector lo output mc (xlm-20?) with the same pre as I have, Great googlamooglies, so now,I've sold the Rega,,looking for a TT and cartdidge that will approach the sound that I heard.Now, what makes matters worse,is that I owned a record store back in the day(early seventies) and I have boxes of lp's,many unopened,many british imports,,just sitting around as I search for a setup,rapidly diminishing audio funds and with that said,any advice would be appreciated.I have my eye on a Sota Sapphire,MMt tonearm which according to the seller,has been recently "brought up to specs" for about 1250.00. Sorry for the longwindedness,, but when does it end? A deep,dark,hole,,indeed. :duh
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Before running out and spending any money on isolation, try hockey pucks! Don't laugh until you try it!
I have a very good customer of mine that is running a JC Verdier and after trying a fair number of isolation options that are out there he ended up running with my tweak of choice.....hockey pucks and has never looked back. :)
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dangerbird,
SOTA sells both new and refirbished 'tables...check their site www.sotaturntables.com
They can give you good advice....and may be aware of the very machine you are looking at. Call and talk to Donna.
WEEZ
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Thanks for the link,, I'll call tomorrow.
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Good luck. I doubt you'll be disappointed with a SOTA product.
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this is not good :? i was minding my own business and i came across this topic and now i am eyeballing Sota Sapphire's and trying to see what finish i can get one in :-k :rofl: :rofl:
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Careful Bunky,,it is a deep,dark hole that will pull you in,,heck,,I've got to look at record cleaning devices next :roll:
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dangerbird is right... the forum description for this section is right. with vinyl there's always another upgrade, you start buying extra copies of favorite LPs, space disappears, need more sleeves, new fluid, another cartridge, more vinyl, more gruv glide, and ahhhhhhh!! i've convinced myself that my vinyl expenses are an investment... LOL
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..."my vinyl expenses are an investment"..
Well, if 'ya gots the software, then 'ya gotta' have the hardware... :)
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Before running out and spending any money on isolation, try hockey pucks! Don't laugh until you try it!
I have a very good customer of mine that is running a JC Verdier and after trying a fair number of isolation options that are out there he ended up running with my tweak of choice.....hockey pucks and has never looked back. :)
So I'm not the only one who uses Hockey pucks. Great tweak. Use them under my Linn coupled to a Sound Organization rack which sits on 3 tiers of 75% solid concrete blocks filled with sand. Could not be happier.
rollo
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Looking for a high output Cart. for my Linn. Use Ittock 2 arm. Any suggestions. MC or MM not sure. Use Micro Benz M2 now. Seems a bit polite no sparkle. Phono stage has 52db of gain.
thanks
rollo
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rollo, have you ever tried an AT OC-9?
More sparkle. Maybe too much more. Dunno.
Maybe a slight tail-down adjustment on the Benz will help?
WEEZ
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rollo, have you ever tried an AT OC-9?
More sparkle. Maybe too much more. Dunno.
Maybe a slight tail-down adjustment on the Benz will help?
WEEZ
weez,
Thanks I'll give it a try. Have not tried AT OC-9. At this point I have always used MC type cart. My gain is 53db in phono section. Thinking of high powered MC or MM. Actually not sure. Budget is $1500.
Have been looking at ZYX, Sumiko Blackbird, Clearaudio Virtuoso and Dybavector. I use a Lingo and Ittock 2 arm. The phono stage is a tubed Loesch and Weisner. Help!
rollo
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rollo,
The OC-9 is a MC with .4mv output; so my guess is you would need a scoosh more gain, and 100 ohm loading. These things sell for about $275, which is a bargain for a MC. (Provided you like the sound)
You could always try a 1.5 mv Wood body Grado. Not advertised as available...but they are.
WEEZ
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Rollo,
Given your budget, maybe add the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B to your audition list -- assuming it will work with your arm.
-- Jim
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Thanks for the help Guys.
rollo
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not to derail this,,but I just picked up a VPI scout,with the dynavector 20 Xl (low output mc) and I'm using a dynavector p-75 in the enhanced mode; now,,any suggestions on cables from the phomo to the pre--to the pre-amp? Currently using a 1 meter pair of grovers from the phono pre to the preamp,and someignal cable silver from the tt to the phono pre.
Damn, I just read this,,I hope it makes sense--too lazy,I guess to retype :roll:
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Makes sense to me! Don't worry this thread is derailed many times over, but is great because it's still going!
Your TT>phono cable looks good to me. They are shielded which is important with super low level signals. I heard Signal's Silver SCs and they were excellent, just a little bass shy. The website blurb about these ICs says awesome bass, so as long as you're happy with them and they're quiet that's all that matters!
I don't have a lot of experience with ICs for line level signals, limited to Anticable copper, DHLAbs, Belden 1505, Grover and JPS. I happily use all Grover S now, but I will get some JPS SC3 when I can swing it, they are about 8x more $.
Rich
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Thanks Rich,,I noticed that the system lacks a tad of bass,,you confirmed what I suspected,,but I did not know where. I'll experiment with some tt-phono cables,,I thought that I read somewhere that Grover has/had made some short cables for tt-pre,,I'll e-mail him--thanks again :D
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dangerbird,
Maybe you're aware that VPI offers phono cable made from the same wire as inside the tonearm? Might make sense to start there? Just a thought...
WEEZ
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dangerbird,
Maybe you're aware that VPI offers phono cable made from the same wire as inside the tonearm? Might make sense to start there? Just a thought...
WEEZ
A good thought at that. VPI has got a winner with this cable for VPI TT. Synergy baby. Stop the search and go for it. You get a thirty day MBG from Music Direct or Acoustic Sounds. You can't lose here. Its a no brainer.
rollo
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dangerbird,
Maybe you're aware that VPI offers phono cable made from the same wire as inside the tonearm? Might make sense to start there? Just a thought...
WEEZ
Nope,, did not know that,, I'm dumb and slow,, :shock: I'll check it out,,thanks for the help- :D--george
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Is that the Nordost Valhalla you're talking about? I know they're using that at least as an option for some arms. Not cheap.
-- Jim
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Jim,
You are correct that VPI uses Nordost for their Signature arms.
The cable for their standard JMW arms can be found here: www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=vptac
WEEZ
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Weez,
Thanks for the link. Looks like it is RCA only and my arm requires a right angle DIN connector. My wire appears to be Van Den Hul, so it would probably cost a good bit to upgrade beyond that -- although some lower mass RCAs might help.
-- Jim
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Correct...RCA to RCA w/ separate ground. Designed for VPI Scout/Scoutmaster/Super Scoutmaster series 'tables.
WEEZ
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Just to clarify, can't really judge an IC by its cousin SC, with one driving a 2ohm high voltage load and another driving a preamp at 20K+++load at line level, lots of differences there. Signal Cable SCs I tried were better than my anticable SCs that I lived with in ignorance for a year. You got some better advice from those who actually know... I would try the VPI wire too.
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Rich,
The Valhalla tonearm wire only resembles the SC in that it uses the same approach to separate the conductor from the insulation, and the composition of the wire metal itself. I'm pretty sure it doesn't use the same geometry. If somebody wanted to rewire my arm and provide a phono cable of Valhalla, and wanted to do it for free, I'd be glad to have it. I guess I could say the same for the speaker cables :-). I think if you had the opportunity to put all Valhalla into your system, like you did with the JPS Aluminata, I'm quite sure you would have another big smile on your face. Is it over priced? Sure, but is it amazing? You bet.
I'll probably even be able to give this a try if I want to -- though I'm not sure I do. I'd be looking at that
Serious Stereo gear long before that.
Back to the subject at hand though, there is a chance that I will get Steve Eddy to rewire my arm directly from the headshell bayonette pins to the RCAs with his Tao wire.
The owner of Redpoint Audio did this and I'm hoping he will bring this table to RMAF.
-- Jim
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Correct...RCA to RCA w/ separate ground. Designed for VPI Scout/Scoutmaster/Super Scoutmaster series 'tables.
WEEZ
hi Weez and company,
Nice bunch of people over here. No politics.
Hey, does Decca still exist? They were the only cartridge that at the time, mid .70's and early .80's that could really reproduce that snap in a snare drum.
Also, I still have in the original box,a Micro Accoustics cartridge. I read somewhere a long time ago, if loaded right, that cartridge just sings. Well back to lurking mode. heheh.
Ray
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Hi Ray, welcome!!
I read something about the decca cartridge in a recent Sensible Sound mag article about the technics SL1200, I think... Maybe it was in TAS's recent TT issue. I'll look for it. If I remember correctly they are still available, but let me find it before you get too excited based on my memory.
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Hi Ray,
Yes, the Decca cartridges are still made. Bottom of the line starts at around $1150.
Your Micro Acoustics cartridge is a classic. Is it in good shape?
WEEZ