Computer as Source

[rollo]

  OK guys after hearing the PDX DAC need to buy a laptop ? Mac Mini ? Mac laptop ? Other ?
   Will be using M2tech driver for DAC. Is the Mac the best suited for this or is there another manf I should consider. 
   If a Mac Mini is bought what else do I need ? Video display ? Mouse ? Keyboard ?
   I do not use the computer for anything but AN, AC, Audiogon and the Internet.
   Going to Apple store this week so before I go your advice would be very helpfull. Thanks in advance.


charles

[StereoNut]

Charles

Mel is very Mac saavy.  It may be well worth your while to give him a call.

Bill

[bhobba]

Hi Charles

Guys out my way have done the tests and had chats with guys that have a lot of experience.

The best source is a Mac Mini running Audirvana Plus - one of the main reasons being its a solid block of aluminium and keeps RF at bay.  Amarra is as good - just a little different but a lot more expensive, and not worth the extra dosh to my and others ears - but a couple I know rave about it.

Get a bit of extra RAM to up it to 4g if you can afford it.  A SSD makes a bit of a difference but I wouldn't worry about that to start with - just get a Mac Mini with 4gig of ram.

Thanks
Bill

[mfsoa]

But why a MAC, unless you really need to intergrate with your iphone/ipad/ipod/itunes etc?

Can't we find PCs at half the price and use JPlay or some other good player?

The last thing I would want would be to have itunes having any influence over how I store and listen to my music.

Just not an Apple guy here...

-Mike

[richidoo]

m2tech makes drivers for both Mac and Winders. Are you using the hiFace for your digital output?

I'd get a PC with Win7, use dbPoweramp for ripping, and JRiver Media Center for playback.

If you do want a Mac Mini then you will have to buy a 3rd party media player because iTunes sound quality is not audiophile worthy. iTunes also does not play flac files so you would have to use Apple's proprietary lossless compression format called AAC, which other audiophiles do not use. Pure Music plays flac and it is excellent:
http://www.channld.com/puremusic/
Pure Music has 32 bit volume control so you can experiment with eliminating the preamp. It has a digital crossover feature which will work good with your subs.

PC is definitely the better overall value from financial POV.

Why not just use the SPDIF input with a CDP transport, as you have been doing?

[jsaliga]

Charles,

If you want a MAC then just go buy one.  But $700 is a lot of money to spend on a computer with a Intel i5 2.3GHz processor and 4GB of memory that comes with no keyboard, no mouse, and no monitor.  If you gotta have a MAC then nothing else will do.

If you are going to use a media converter like the M2Tech HiFACE to convert USB audio to SPDIF then any PC or MAC will work just fine.  Forget about expensive power supplies and heavy duty shielding.  You only need to worry about that if you are going to run analogue audio outputs from a sound card to your audio system, and all of the expensive pro cards are sufficiently shielded.

I use a PC as a source.  Until recently it was a Shuttle XPC small form factor PC (Google it to learn more) but I have since moved audio to my main workstation.  I use J River media center (which supports kernel streaming) and a M2Tech HiFace that outputs to my Eastern Electric Mini Max DAC.  I can pump up to 24bit/192KHz audio to the DAC with this rig and it works like a champ.

--Jerome

[mfsoa]

I use my PC via Squeezebox server so don't use JRiver etc., but I've read that it's a great program.

I've also been reading about JPlay and how it's supposed to be the best player there is. It allocates needed space on RAM and can go into hibernation mode which basically shuts down PC except for the bare necessities to play from RAM. (Well, that's my basic understanding).

Supposed to be incredible. But I wonder if you are using asynch USB how much diff does the PC end make. (I know, I know, it all makes a diff!)

Sorry to veer your thread slightly off course Charles, but I think it's important for you to know how you will interface your PC to your system (Squeezebox Touch?  USB to SPDIF?  USB straight to (synchronous to asynchronous) DAC? etc.)

Lots to learn. But I tell ya I streamed a Czech jazz station for 15 hours straight yesterday and it was wonderful. Addition of a PC to your arsenal can add greatly to ones enjoyment of music!!

(Glad I'm not the only one to use a PC!)

-Mike

[Scott F.]

Count one more PC/JRiver guy. I feed async to my DAC and it's pretty darned good sounding.

I just recently picked up a cheap HP tower to use as a dedicated server. It's pretty well stripped down without any other programs running on it other than JRiver. It sounds significantly better than my old laptop and Foobar.

[satfrat]

And yet one more PC/JRiver Media Center fanboy with my Off-Ramp 3 and Havana Dac. I need my PC for more than just audio. I need to surf, I have video needs and  need a wireless keyboard w/builtin mouse and a 23" LCD next to my listening chair. PC (really HTPC) and especially JRiver Media Center accomplishes all this for me. And with all this going on, my PC audio still sounds incredible. 

But if I was doing a dedicated computer audio source, I may very well give the MiniMac a look see. But that's just not me,,, I'm a multitasker in an easy chair. 

Cheers,
Robin

[tmazz]

And yet one more PC/JRiver Media Center fanboy with my Off-Ramp 3 and Havana Dac. I need my PC for more than just audio. I need to surf, I have video needs and  need a wireless keyboard w/builtin mouse and a 23" LCD next to my listening chair. PC (really HTPC) and especially JRiver Media Center accomplishes all this for me. And with all this going on, my PC audio still sounds incredible. 

But if I was doing a dedicated computer audio source, I may very well give the MiniMac a look see. But that's just not me,,, I'm a multitasker in an easy chair. 

Cheers,
Robin

....or rather a multitasker who doesn't want to get out of the easy chair. 
(I definitely know the feeling.)

[satfrat]

I happily plead guilty. Main reason why I love winter so much. Come spring/summer, breaktime's over for me but not for the PC audio as that just gets cranked up louder with the windows wide open while I'm outside doing much needed yard work. PC audio never get a break afaic. 

Cheers,
Robin

[tmazz]

I happily plead guilty. Main reason why I love winter so much. 

It's winter??? Could have fooled me. 

[satfrat]

It's winter??? Could have fooled me.  

I hear ya there. This last winter storm, a town in Northern Vermont got 34" of snow. But here in Rutland, we were at the bottom with .8". My snowblower's been laying around as much as I have. But I gots PC audio while the snowblower got gas stabilizer. 

Cheers,
Robin

[bhobba]

But why a MAC, unless you really need to intergrate with your iphone/ipad/ipod/itunes etc?

Can't we find PCs at half the price and use JPlay or some other good player?

The last thing I would want would be to have itunes having any influence over how I store and listen to my music.

Just not an Apple guy here...

-Mike

Hi Mike

I was not an Apple guy either but I spoke to someone who had done a lot of investigation into this including double blind tests in regard to a DAC he sells.  The best source was a Mac-Mini.  To test it myself, and a number of others out my way in the Brisbane/Gold Coast area, did listening tests using some Windows machines, Macs, Mac Notebooks, Windows Notebooks.  The best by far was the Mac-Mini which further pulled ahead with the software available for it.  The reason notebooks had problems was the hash generated by the screen.  Windows machines are usually are not shielded well enough whereas a Mac-Mini being a hollowed out block of aluminium is very well shielded.

Recently, with the release of JPlay, it was decided to look into it again and a guy who came over to my place for another reason (to demonstrate his $17K Playback Designs DAC - I will do another post about that) was lucky enough to have both a Windows machine and Mac Mini so was cajoled into comparing them.  Audirvana Plus on the Mac-Mini was clearly better - but not by a huge amount - JPlay has leveled the field considerably.  Now I will not say a Mac-Mini is a must have and Windows with JPlay will be good, but a Mac Mini is still seems the best choice.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Pure Music has 32 bit volume control so you can experiment with eliminating the preamp. It has a digital crossover feature which will work good with your subs.

Tests with the PDX showed direct connected to the amp and played using the volume control in Audirvana using 24 bit up-sampling, was well ahead of a volume control.  Clay when he makes the PDX now builds them to match the sensitivity of the amps being used so you use as little as possible volume change - although it must be said I don't know of anyone that can tell the difference between a small volume adjustment and a large one with dithering in effect.  I don't like Pure Music compared to Audirvana.

I have experimented with a number of DAC's (both Bursons, WFS, both JK DAC's, both Trainquilities, and the Metrum) and only the Tranquility and Metrum seemed to be better not direct connected.  The reason seems to be impedance matching (the Tranquility has a reasonably low output impedance of 50 ohms but it uses very high quality output capacitors of not a low value that needs a reasonable input impedance to prevent roll off - it is also only 16 bit so you can easily bit drop - the Metrum has no output stage and direct connects the DAC chips so that is probably its reason) because the pre-amp we used, the Truth, has virtually and infinite input impedance and an output impedance of about 2 ohms so some amps may be better with a pre.

Thanks
Bill