Bigfish's Quest for a DAC to lead into Computer Audio

[Carlman]

Not sure how quickly you want to decide on something but I will likely have a DAC comparison this summer at my place with the Eastern Electric DAC in stock form and heavily mod'ed by Bolder.  I should be getting a stock DAC in Bill's next shipment so, that should be here sooner rather than later.

If some other DAC's become available, I could certainly put something together for a little G2G prior..

Let me know,
Carl

[richidoo]

My ultimate source is the SimAudio MOON 750D. Two Sabre chips, 8dacs working together per channel. Spins  disks too. $11k.  

Shane and I both have Buffalo II's which might be ready by your g2g, Carl. I think everybody is looking fwd to hearing the EE.

Edit: .... and seeing Bill again too!! (I just read the AC post you linked too) Can't wait!

[tmazz]

Not sure how quickly you want to decide on something but I will likely have a DAC comparison this summer at my place with the Eastern Electric DAC in stock form and heavily modded by Bolder.  I should be getting a stock DAC in Bill's next shipment so, that should be here sooner rather than later.

If some other DAC's become available, I could certainly put something together for a little G2G prior..

Let me know,
Carl

Carl,

Is the Bolder modded Dac you are talking about one of the Eastern Electric units. If so it should be quite a good piece. I have 2 Art D I/Os, one stock and one with the full Mensa Mod upgrades from Bolder. I can certainly attest to the quality of work that Bolder does. I picked it up used because I was looking for a DAC for my son's system and and I saw the Mensa Mod for a good price so I figured what the heck I would give my son the stock one and put the modded unit in the mancave. Well I was not ready for the amount of improvement I got over the stock D I/O. The difference was far from subtle. Improvements in bass, improvements in resolution improvements imaging  (width , height and depth). From everything I have read, the EE is is nice piece to start with. Once Bolder gets done with it I would think it will step right up to another plane. I'll be interested to hear what you guys think once you get to hear the two pieces side by side. 

[Deton Nation]

I love DACS! Bobs Ayre is nice. Id like to hear more USB dacs myself.
M

[Bill O'Connell]

Carl,
 received an email from Alex saying the DAC's will be ready in a week. Just because your so special I'll fly yours in just so you have it sooner.

 Wayne over at Bolder is moddifying my DAC now, he is waiting for the Paul Hynes power supply to throw in there, about a month wait for the power supply though according to Wayne. Heck, his power supply cost almost as much as the DAC.Then Wayne is experimenting with some different op-amps plus throwing a little more juice at the tube also.
 I'm not sure even why I'm having the mods done as I could live happily ever after in its stock form but as a member of this site, Audio Nervosa has always hit me harded then most.

 I can't wait to compare the two also

[ik632]

So, aside from the DAC the system sounds like you need a player and a server machine (both can be the same, but with lots of fast storage that machine can get noisy). For me an ideal system is to have a moderately powerful server (remember, music isn't going to be streamed any faster than 100mbps which isn't very taxing on hardware). My old server was a 600mhz celeron with 256mb ram; my new system is a 2.0ghz with 2gb ram and performance is better, but the music doesn't play any faster.

I'd recommend to stay away from the pre-built NAS solutions. They are good for storage, but not as fast as one would like. The WHS machines (some good priced ones) are probably price/performance one of the better deals for a pre-built solution. For me the real solution is a decently fast processor with adequate ram and then put a server OS on it (I've used Ubuntu but prefer FreeNAS). Then I install SqueezeBoxServer to play to the SqueezeBoxen (this will get you by in the meantime).

Then for the player, you can have any computer you want. I'd go with one of the low power fanless solutions. They are plenty fast enough to take the stream from the server and then decode it and send it out over USB to the DAC (if your DAC has USB in). If it doesn't there are several good sound cards which output digital audio (though I haven't looked at these in a while).

Hardware and software wise the entire setup is pretty reasonable (server and player excluding sound card are very familiar to me) and as a pleasant side bonus, you also get a server to store all of your data on.

[BobM]

The only issue with Wayne's mods is going to be the cost. Once you're done buying the DAC and having the mods done plus shipping you may be in the ballpark of some other well regarded DAC's. It really depends on whether you want to be bleeding edge in mod-land or set with something that will hold better resale value. Lets face it, digital changes every 2 years, so you very well may have an upgrade bug down the road and need to resell whatever you wind up with.

[Carlman]

Nick,
Thanks a lot for chiming in and clarifying the system components for an audio-based PC.  At some point it may be a good idea to have an 'AN Recipe' that is the best of value and performance.  I've done something like this in the past but I don't remember where (probably AC) and it's too old now anyway...
I'm very interested in hearing a little Ubuntu player compared to the Windows box as a transport 'face off'.

Bill,
As always you are the most generous person in audio.  Thank you!!  And, can't wait to have you visit.  To thank you, I will share some special Scotch with you... And I can guarantee you'll love it, have never had it, and will find it impossible to find.  (which will drive you crazy)  

I think a lot of folks here are really looking forward to hearing your DAC so it will be a great time.  I'll do some research on tubes so I have a few to roll and dial it in/synergize pre-meet... and/or have them to compare at the meet.  We'll fully explore what this DAC can do.

tmazz - yes! it is the Bolder mod.  Can't wait to hear the no-holds-barred version from Wayne.  I'm sure it'll be a treat.

Just to be clear about how the G2G's are shaping up.. I think there will be 2; 1 when I get the stock DAC and then another with the Bolder/Stock comparo.. The 2nd one is when Bill will be here.  Let me know if that works/doesn't work.

-C

[Bill O'Connell]

I'll send a couple extra tubes out on loan that I think work really well in the DAC. Pinched waist D getter E80CC, a Siemens silverplate 12au7,Mullard LP D getter 12au7( Carl I know it is not one of your favorite tubes) but I like what it does in this circuit and I purchased a tube with the craziest looking getter wire more of a horseshoe shape and the plates look like nickel could be a old kenrad 12au7 that I also like in there as all the writing is gone, anyway, you'll have a few different flavors to choose.Maybe I'll send you one of the Brimar 13D5's you returned(who knew), I haven't had time to try this one yet but I will before I ship.

 Later,
 Bill

[Deton Nation]

The only issue with Wayne's mods is going to be the cost. Once you're done buying the DAC and having the mods done plus shipping you may be in the ballpark of some other well regarded DAC's. It really depends on whether you want to be bleeding edge in mod-land or set with something that will hold better resale value. Lets face it, digital changes every 2 years, so you very well may have an upgrade bug down the road and need to resell whatever you wind up with.

+1 Not really worth it valuewise since tech updates so quickly. But if your into the mod thing then cool!

[mdconnelly]

Ken, just my 2 cents worth, but of all the audio technology we like to listen to and compare, DACs are likely the fastest changing.  While there are great products on the market, I'd be hesitant to spend big bucks - particularly where mods come in to play,  until you're very confident how well it works in your system and to your ears. 

With that said, what are your sources today?  Is it just the Touch or are you also spinning CDs?   The DAC in the Touch is a good bit better than it was in the Squeezebox and probably approaches what was in the stock Transporter.  I guess what I'm saying is that you might be quite content with what you have and take a good bit of time to compare and let the market evolve a bit more.

[Deton Nation]

The Dac in the Touch is pretty good. Tonally excellent. Sweet sounding. The SS is just a little flattened out in depth, but it is wide.
Not bad considering.

[hometheaterdoc]

Carl,

I've got a few 12Au7 variants here you can try in it as well....  you're welcome to borrow some of them to find one you like....

I'm curious to hear the EE.... been curious as it looks like a very nice design.  I just wish the volume control wasn't there or if it had to be that it was done in the digital domain... the chip is setup for a digital volume control....

not sure Sol will have worked his magic on the Buffalo II by the time the G2G rolls around.  He's been working on my amps lately... I'm getting antsy to hear them.... one of the prototypes is getting closer based on an email from earlier this week....

now back to landscaping work...  gotta go get more mulch....

[Black Sand Cable]

Does anyone know if the tube output stage bypasses the opamp or if it is fed from that opamp based ss output stage?

FWIW,
Paul

Paul,

According to the folks that make them:

The tube pre output on D1 is fed from opamp based ss output stage. It is basically the SS output go through an additional tube buffer stage

[Carlman]

Ok then... so tubes will roll! 

Thanks Bill and Shane.. I forgot Shane has a chest full of 12AU7's.. between the 2 of you we'll find something that works! ha..

I'll put a new thread in the NC group therapy sessions when I get the DAC and can set a date for the first meet.

Thanks,
Carl