Author Topic: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation  (Read 15897 times)

Offline shadowlight

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EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« on: November 18, 2012, 09:33:06 AM »
Looking for recommendation for tubes for the Bella Extreme 3205 amp.  Looking for tubes that are either neutral to slightly warm side.  From everything that I have read so far the Gold Lion KT77 is a pretty good tube but what other tubes are out there?  Bit leary about Black Treasure (no longer being produced, had a KT88Z go bad within 200 hrs) and they are not cheap.

Not sure if the Bella will support 6CA7 but waiting for confirmation from Bill.

Thanks

Offline richidoo

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 12:40:19 PM »

http://www.ehx.com/products/6ca7
EH 6CA7 is warmish, but not excessively so, still a modern sounding tube. 6CA7 is just the American name for EL34, also more rugged, but functionally identical.

PsVane is supposedly the new Black Treasure. The Black Treasure engineers left (party run) Shuguang to go out on their own, now named PsVane. I've not read much about the sound quality, aside from hype on the importers' website.

Offline shadowlight

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 01:17:55 PM »
Thanks Rich.  Heard back from Bill and I can use 6CA7 in the modified Jolida.  The EH are about half the price of a Quad GL KT77.

Offline richidoo

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 01:47:03 PM »
Gold Lion is an upscale brand of New Sensor, the parent of EH. EH is their lower cost brand, one step above their lowest, Sovtek. Based on that ranking you might expect that the GL KT77 would have the edge in a direct comparison, but not necessarily "warmer."

To me warm tube means slower sounding, less detailed, more low order harmonic distortion. That's my memory of the 6CA7EH.

But if you want more detail with minor low order harmonic distortion then maybe the GLs are worth a try. I prefer more detail than 6CA7EH, but they are forgiving and nicely balanced powerful sounding tube otherwise. My impressions are using Manley Snapper, which is a forward sounding amp. ymmv with the Jolida

musicfile

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 05:02:02 PM »
Another alternative is the jj kt77 somewhere in the middle of the Gold Lion and Eh6ca7 . There have been some reliability issues on the JJ's but I think they do alot of things right  :thumb:

AcidJazz

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 10:43:34 PM »
I thought the EH6CA7 was a bit hard, and didn't have the 'dimensionality' of the GL KT77 nor the midrange sweetness and upper air of the GLs.
I tried the JJ34Ls some years ago but it was supplanted by the EH6CA7 after one of the JJ failed...the GL supplanted the EH in my continuing listening experience.

Currently I am running in a quad of the GLKT88, which has been sitting around for several months, pretty good sound...but I am itching to return to the GL-KT77, its just magical in my RA3205.

YOu would need a 'high biasing' GL-KT77 for the RA, the first set I got didn't make the bias level.

Offline shadowlight

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 04:48:56 AM »

Currently I am running in a quad of the GLKT88, which has been sitting around for several months, pretty good sound...but I am itching to return to the GL-KT77, its just magical in my RA3205.

YOu would need a 'high biasing' GL-KT77 for the RA, the first set I got didn't make the bias level.

Thanks Martin.  I thought you were using TungSol 6550 also?  Are the GLKT88 better than TungSol?

DaveC

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 07:25:31 AM »
I have tried GL KT77 (reissue), =C= EL34, Sovtek EL34, Mullard EL34 (reissue) and TS 6550 (reissue) in my SET amp.

IMO the GL and =C= are the best I have, both are very good tubes.

For me, the differences don't warrant spending big money on NOS tubes for EL34s. There's certainly an audible difference between tubes, but it's not night and day and the NOS versions cost a fortune. I would be interested if anyone has listened to Siemens/RFT as these are still available under $100/pair. And if the Black Treasure tubes are worth it at 40% off right now?

mlee

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EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 08:31:41 AM »
With the caveat that tube performance depends on your tube amp circuitry and the neighboring driver tubes, I can give you my experience with the Music Reference RM9 mkii.

Siemens EL34s were excellent tubes that I used for years.

JJ KT77s were inexpensive and used experimentally.  They lacked the “finesse” of the Siemens.  I cannot give a more analytical report, since it’s been so long since I last heard them.  They sounded crude in the RM9.  They were more dynamic with brute force, but deviated from the tonal accuracy of the Siemens.

I also tried the Electro-Harmonix 6CA7s.  They were acceptably better in terms of sounding more musical, but ultimately not what I wanted for long-term use, having gotten used to the Siemens sound.

The Shuguang Black Treasures 6CA7-Zs sounded like a good alternative to the Siemens.  They are more expensive, since they were culled by Grant Fidelity.  Apparently Shuguang releases sub-optimal units to meet quotas.  You need a distributor or retailer that culls the factory tubes to meet higher audiophile standards.  Roger Modjeski’s RAM Tubes does the same procedure for its Siemens and charges a premium for it.  The Black Treasures sounded good in my amp and approximated the Siemens sound.  They give off noticeably less heat than the Siemens.

I have tried the Genalex Gold Lion KT77s, and they are a less expensive viable alternative to the Siemens.  I do not want to compare them to the Black Treasures, since the newer Black Treasures are sold under a different name.  The GL KT77s are good and bad in that they permit me to advance the integrity of the sound of the system.  They are bad in that respect because they tend to aggravate the Audio Nervosa Syndrome.  RAM Tubes and others cull these tubes for a premium also.

Your mileage may vary.  Generally choosing a tube depends on how far along you are in the nervosa syndrome.  If you are beyond hopeless, then you will choose the more expensive spread.

AcidJazz

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Re: EL34/6CA7/KT77 Tube Recommendation
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 04:26:06 PM »

Thanks Martin.  I thought you were using TungSol 6550 also?  Are the GLKT88 better than TungSol?

Its been almost a couple years since I used the TS 6550, so not sure how they match up today.
Looking at the TS quad I bought, I now remember why I never returned to them, one tube went red line and the dealer was not co-operative with a replacement...I do remember they were better than the stock Sovtek quad that came with the amp.

Bear in mind I currently use my tube amp in a biamped system, handling only the mid/hi above 250Hz.