ok... I was in attendance yesterday as already alluded... there is a LOT to cover in this post, so pardon me if I get bullet-pointy and don't speak flowery language for pages and pages
first thing playing when I arrived was squeezebox to SN Dac to AVA preamp to Manleys to Legacy speakers. Speaker cables were Grover and interconnects were grover with Analysis Plus digital cable. Sound...... meh... not my cup of tea at all... average at best, not great detail, definitely bright sounding... only listened to a couple songs and then went on to other things.
I ran the grill for part of the time and chatted for a lot of the early evening. So I didn't participate in a lot of the comparo stuff. I honestly only heard a couple minutes of Saul's (I hope I'm spelling that ok) source and integrated amp. I thought the modded player was holding things back at first and was confirmed when he switched to the oracle source to his integrated amp. I'd like to hear more of this integrated at later meetings....
A couple clarifications: The Oracle DAC-1000 can be used a fixed output DAC, or it can have full preamp function. It has a multitude of digital inputs (and outputs) as well as several analog inputs (including one HT bypass unity gain analog input so you can integrate surround sound with your two channel rig in a multi-purpose room). It's not just a DAC, it's a DAC and preamp in one chassis (and I know we've had that discussion in another thread at one point about whether that's a good or bad thing). One neat feature about the DAC1000 that came in handy last night was that each input has its own volume memory setting. So you can break out an SPL meter, match the volume settings between inputs, and they are remembered as you are switching between inputs. That came in handy last night.
The DAC-1000 is an oversampling DAC, but the oversampling is selectable and can be defeated. Early in the evening, most listening took place with the 192kHz setting, but virtually everything later in the night (including speaker cable comparisons) were done with the Oracle set to bypass on oversampling (i.e. it was straight 16/44 with no processing). There is definitely a difference in presentation between oversampling and not.
I was an idiot and left the house without remembering to bring my BNC-RCA adapter for the back of the Oracle CD-1000. That would have come in handy because it would have allowed an apples to apples comparison with the SN DAC by using the JPS Labs SC3 AES and SC3 RCA digital cables. As it was, we ended up having to use the Analysis Plus Digital Oval that had a BNC on one end from the factory to feed the SN Dac.
The SP speakers weren't positioned ideally for comparison. We set them up inside the Legacys and a few inches foward so that reflections to either side because of the Legacy speakers wasn't toooo much of an issue. We did go through a few basic measurements to get the speakers evenly spaced, centered and equidistant from the listening position and front wall. We played with toe in a bit to get them lined up a bit better. They were far from ideally setup (including not being perfectly level), but were slightly better than just "plunk down and listen".
anyways, back to the show...
we got to hear Richard's RWA modded Olive music server. He had it hooked up via a Stereovox digital cable to begin with. My initial thought was the Olive was total crap as it was thin, brittle, and very bright sounding. We swapped the Stereovox cable for the Analysis Plus Digital Oval and it got *muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch* better. I don't understand what others like in the Stereovox digital because in the context of this setup, it was truly awful. I'm hoping it was just a system synergy thing...
others did more extensive comparisons with the music server compared to the same disk being played in the transport itself. I gather the opinion was the Oracle transport has a better foundation to things and more refinement in the bottom end than the others. but that was just the comments I heard. I didn't do any direct A/B comparo in the prime listening spot.
I came to the get together mostly to hear the SP Tech speakers as I've been interested in them for quite some time now, and I too heard the broken pair when they came through town a while back. So I really joined the listening party when we got around to hooking up the SP Tech's.
SP Tech Thoughts:
- revealing of upstream components. When we first started playing them, I hated them. waaaay too forward and forced sounding. Once we made a couple cable swaps, they changed dramatically (and for the better). We did a lot of our comparisons on these speakers and every change was blatently right there for you to hear the differences. It's hard to truly say the speakers character because of how revealing they were. I'm sure a lot of what we thought is invluenced by the combo of gear in front of them.
- very dynamic speaker. They don't hesitate or compress when a big dynamic swing hits.
- I liken these speakers to a jack hammer. They hit you with whatever the recording is. They push it out at you rather than be laid back and relaxed. This was true even with cable changes to make things more relaxed sounding. It was very telling at the end when we switched back to the Legacy speakers (which aren't my favorite at all for other reasons), how much more relaxed and at ease I was listening. I was more tense and on edge when listening to the SP Techs, even if I wasn't concious of it all the time. I think Brandon mentioned something along the same lines near the end of the evening
- very small sweet spot. Once you get off axis, the imaging completely disappears worse than a lot of other speakers. In the window, they do throw a very nice stage.
- They do NOT like to be toed in (or at least in this instance didn't like it). Very dramatic the difference between toe in angles. I think I might have been the only one that got to hear this as I quickly changed things and we listened after that almost exclusively with very little toe-in.
- I would definitely need tubey tubes or a hybrid
if I owned these speakers. Everyone knows my preference for a more relaxed sound, which kind of flies in the face of the Oracle stuff, which is pretty ruthless in its own right... Overall, I was very impressed and I think Ken got himself a deal there with a speaker that will allow him to build his system around it. It's a great rock speaker. I'm not sure it would be my first choice for intimate and laid back recordings. You definitely have to be careful about what electronics you put in front of it.
Speaker cable comparo was interesting. I wasn't in the sweet spot for this. I was in a seat to the left. So everything I can comment on had nothing to do with imaging. But I could very easily discern PRAT, tone, and detail.
Grover - I really didn't like these. They had plenty of detail, but were the most forward sounding of all the cables. Too bright and thin for me.
Audience AU24 - one of the best cables for timing I've ever heard. A little thin/brittle in parts for me. It was laid back (you could tell the stage was at the speakers and 10 feet behind whereas Grover was 12 feet in front. It was a weird phenomena all around to sit perpendicular to the speakers and "see" how far out the stage came out from the speakers with the different cables). Pretty realistic sounding.
Supra - I think we nicknamed these the "Fantasia" cables for how they tended to push things out at you and splash and bloom them kind of like the scences in the movie. It was kind of like a fireworks display. Not my favorite at all.
Reality - These just died in this setup. They squashed and compressed everything. It was like everything happened in a 4 inch depth several feet in front of the speakers. Fuzzy, lacking detail and wobbled woefully on dynamic swings. these were easily the worst of the cables we tried.
JPS SC 3 - I'm very biased here as I sell these. But there is a reason I became a dealer for them and it had nothing to do with profits/losses/sales and I think folks in the room found out why it is I'm a dealer. I think these were the universal favorite in the room. they were also easily the most expensive cable in the room, so they should have been better!
lots of other talk thoughout the course of the night, plans for more frequent get togethers, great coversations with regular attendees and some new faces. It's too bad i didn't get more time to compare the SN DAC sound, as well as hear a few more preamps. I trust Rich will give us a more detailed report at a later date based on all the preamps he currently has in house to try
Great to see everyone! Thanks again Rich for the great hospitality and place to meet and greet! That was probably the most fun I've had at one of these get togethers. It was a great evening all around