Author Topic: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM  (Read 16521 times)

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2019, 05:56:57 PM »
Well, I loved the humble posts and can relate as I’ve had to eat humble pie on a few occasions.🥧 🥧
As to my post, maybe it was a bit strong, but life’s stressful right now and I’ll not elaborate.

So the only thing I’m wondering right now Pete is can 3 of my Alfred E Newmans beat up on one of your Muhammad Alis  8-[
Nick

Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1238
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2019, 11:03:52 PM »
Just want to let all know that I have my own forum at:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sasaudio2000/conversations/topics?guccounter=1

where one can post, and obtain real science without being falsely attack.

cheers

steve
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline Triode Pete

  • Industry Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 1466
  • Strive for Perfection, Settle on Excellence!
    • Link to System Details & Photos
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2019, 07:22:35 AM »
Well, I loved the humble posts and can relate as I’ve had to eat humble pie on a few occasions.🥧 🥧
As to my post, maybe it was a bit strong, but life’s stressful right now and I’ll not elaborate.

So the only thing I’m wondering right now Pete is can 3 of my Alfred E Newmans beat up on one of your Muhammad Alis  8-[
Nick



On a serious note, wishing you much solace in your time of need, Nick...

No one needs more stress nowadays!

Peace,
Pete
www.TriodeWireLabs.com
WT Reference/Lyra Titan I
Quadratic Audio MC-1
Custom BorderPatrol preamp with phono & line stage
Innuos Statement Server
BorderPatrol S20 EXD w/EXS PS
Klipschorns - Volti hot-rodded
UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2019, 09:43:38 AM »
Just want to let all know that I have my own forum at:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sasaudio2000/conversations/topics?guccounter=1

where one can post, and obtain real science without being falsely attack.

cheers

steve

Yahoo groups are great. I followed the Golden Tube Audio guys for a while
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2019, 10:44:15 AM »
Well, I loved the humble posts and can relate as I’ve had to eat humble pie on a few occasions.🥧 🥧
As to my post, maybe it was a bit strong, but life’s stressful right now and I’ll not elaborate.

So the only thing I’m wondering right now Pete is can 3 of my Alfred E Newmans beat up on one of your Muhammad Alis  8-[
Nick



On a serious note, wishing you much solace in your time of need, Nick...

No one needs more stress nowadays!

Peace,
Pete

Thank you, Pete.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline toobluvr

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2019, 10:04:45 AM »


Steve,
I think it’s quite a compliment to you that I’ve never seen a used 11A for sale  :thumb:
Nick

I have.   Matter of fact, if you search on audioshark.com you will see 15 sold / expired ads.

Just sayin........
Spkrs: Sunny Cable Tech, Reynaud, Zu, Klipsch, Gallo subs, Wharfedale
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C
Carts: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Music Maker 3, Dynavector xx2-Mk2, Shelter 501
complete: see Sunnydaze system on AC

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2019, 11:40:29 AM »


Steve,
I think it’s quite a compliment to you that I’ve never seen a used 11A for sale  :thumb:
Nick

I have.   Matter of fact, if you search on audioshark.com you will see 15 sold / expired ads.

Just sayin........

Thanks for your input
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline mresseguie

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2019, 04:48:43 PM »


Steve,
I think it’s quite a compliment to you that I’ve never seen a used 11A for sale  :thumb:
Nick

I have.   Matter of fact, if you search on audioshark.com you will see 15 sold / expired ads.

Just sayin........

Toobluvr,

Did you mean to type Hifishark.com?

I ask because I checked Hifishark.com a few days ago and found there had been past sales of the 11A, but the most recent one was 4+ years ago.

Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
Hapa loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUS

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1238
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2019, 07:41:22 PM »


Steve,
I think it’s quite a compliment to you that I’ve never seen a used 11A for sale  :thumb:
Nick

I have.   Matter of fact, if you search on audioshark.com you will see 15 sold / expired ads.

Just sayin........

Please provide a link, as I performed a search of SAS Audio Labs preamplifiers, and 11A Line Preamplifier and came up empty on audioshark.com , also audioshark.org, a discussion group.

I see one 11A for sale 4 years ago on USA Audiomart.com.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 07:45:13 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline mresseguie

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2019, 07:58:03 PM »
Steve,

I suspect he meant Hifishark.com. I was incorrect in my previous post about searching for the 11A. It was a search for SAS Audio Labs under the sold/expired tab that I made last week. Here's the search I just performed:

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=sas+audio+labs

This link shows sold/expired in Europe:

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=sas+audio+labs

I take this as a confirmation that folks do not wish to relinquish their 11A or 10A preamps very often.  :thumb:

I have instructed Hifishark to email me when (or if) an 11A appears for sale in North America.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 08:00:50 PM by mresseguie »
Daedalus Audio Apollos; Fritz Loudspeakers LS/5-R
SW1X NOS DAC III BAL/SPL; Holo Spring3 KTE
Don Sachs Model 2 preamp
Don Sachs dual mono 300b; Nuprime Evolution STA
Hapa loom
PI Audio UberBUSS, DigiBUSS, Uber-MiniBUS

Offline steve

  • Audiologist
  • *
  • Posts: 1238
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2019, 08:21:56 PM »
Steve,

I suspect he meant Hifishark.com. I was incorrect in my previous post about searching for the 11A. It was a search for SAS Audio Labs under the sold/expired tab that I made last week. Here's the search I just performed:

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=sas+audio+labs

This link shows sold/expired in Europe:

https://www.hifishark.com/search?q=sas+audio+labs

I take this as a confirmation that folks do not wish to relinquish their 11A or 10A preamps very often.  :thumb:

I have instructed Hifishark to email me when (or if) an 11A appears for sale in North America.

Hi Michael,

Looking it over, It appears to me that the same indivdual may have attempted to sell. Cannot tell for sure, what do you think? I noticed "musical stunning" in a 10A ads near the bottom, so appears multiple times from same individual.

I know of one years ago, who sold because he was down sizing, going integrated amp, which for newbies out there is both preamplifier and amplifier together.

cheers

steve
« Last Edit: February 01, 2019, 09:33:34 PM by steve »
Steve Sammet (Owner, Electron Eng, SAS Audio Labs, Ret)
SAS "V" 39pf/m 6N copper ICs,
SAS Test Phono Stage
Acutex 320 STR Mov Iron Cart
SAS 11A Perfect Tube Preamp
SAS 25 W Ref Triode/UL Monoblocks
2 way Floor Standing Test Speakers

Offline toobluvr

  • Certifiable
  • ***
  • Posts: 215
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2019, 05:27:29 AM »
Yes.....typo.....I meant hifishark.com.

Not intending to sir anything up or ruffle feathers.
Simply correcting the record of an earlier misstatement.

And yes, it does look like the same 1 or 2 or 3 sellers (dunno, haven't opened all the ads) posting multiple ads in Europe.

But here are 2 ads in America, appears to be same seller:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=126535.0

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649130119-sas_audio_labs_11a/

Spkrs: Sunny Cable Tech, Reynaud, Zu, Klipsch, Gallo subs, Wharfedale
TT1: Townshend Rock 3/OL Silver Mk3A
TT2: OL Aurora/OL Encounter Mk3C
Carts: Soundsmith Zephyr,  Music Maker 3, Dynavector xx2-Mk2, Shelter 501
complete: see Sunnydaze system on AC

Offline Nick B

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 4093
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2019, 10:46:06 AM »
Thanks for the latest responses. We’ve gone a bit afar from the original post and I don’t know what more would be  gained by trying to figure out how many used 11a’s have been for sale and if it might be the same seller. So let’s move on from this pls.
As with any of these great preamps, I’d love to get my hands on one and see if it could substantially elevate the performance of my system.
Orchard Starkrimson Ultra amp
Supratek Chardonnay preamp
JMR Voce Grande speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Holo Red streamer
Hapa Aero digital coax
WyWires Silver cables
TWL Digital American II p cord
Audio Envy p cords
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline S Clark

  • Audio Neurotic
  • *****
  • Posts: 1330
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2019, 11:26:58 AM »
Back to the beginning of this thread, Charles made the claim that the preamp is the Heart of the System.  Dave disagreed stating that the amp was the "heart".
I don't claim the same degree of knowledge of either of these gents, but my experience is that a preamp brings out whatever the amp has to deliver... so as far as I'm concerned, your system will only sound as good as both your preamp and amp.  But if I had to pick, I'd still say that the preamp is the key piece to my system.
Speaker-GR Research LS9-XStatik-AltecFlamenco
Amp-Moscode,Dodd,Folsom
Pre-Dodd
Turntable-Vyger,Victor,TechnicSP10MK2
Phonopre-Hagermann,Jolida,GSlee   
Cable-AudioSensibility Wywires TWL
Cartridge-Dynavector,Sumiko
Tonearm-PioneerP3,Jelco
Rythmic sub

Offline Folsom

  • Obsessively Audiophilic
  • ****
  • Posts: 852
Re: PREAMP - HEART of the SYSTEM
« Reply #59 on: February 02, 2019, 12:28:15 PM »
Back to the beginning of this thread, Charles made the claim that the preamp is the Heart of the System.  Dave disagreed stating that the amp was the "heart".
I don't claim the same degree of knowledge of either of these gents, but my experience is that a preamp brings out whatever the amp has to deliver... so as far as I'm concerned, your system will only sound as good as both your preamp and amp.  But if I had to pick, I'd still say that the preamp is the key piece to my system.

I would say amp, too. Once gain is involved everything changes.

You can have preamps that impart a lot of character, too. And then pair them with an ultra low distortion amp (trying to be invisible), to sorta have the preamp be the heart. But I prefer a preamp that can drive amps better, so you get some improvement but it's really invisible and not lacking an ability to drive the amp. Then the amp has character and is the heart of what you want.

A preamp that's just a volume knob can't do anything to improve sound by driving an amp better. It would be pretty hard to call that a heart.



Here's an interesting example. Mola Mola. The preamp has got accolades because it doesn't impart a bunch of sonic character, just drives amps better. But the Mola Mola amps are not really cared for at all because they're lifeless in many people's opinion.