Author Topic: Weak link(s)  (Read 4533 times)

Offline JLM

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Weak link(s)
« on: October 27, 2009, 02:14:33 AM »
It occurs to me (finally) that this option has several steps involved.  Everyone has fixated on HD/magnetic versus CD/optical reads (or even SSD versus either).  But with old fashioned digital you'd have just a transport and a digital cable.  Going this route you have a myriad of steps/options:

1. Enter the data (read the CD or download loseless formatted files)
2. 1st Transfer (strictly within the computer only or via USB/firewire or wirelessly)
3. Storage on HD or SSD
4. Retrieval (back to the processor, with the computer only or via USB/firewire or wirelessly)
5. 3rd Transfer from computer to USB DAC or to USB-S/PDIF converter or transport (like SB)
6. If converter or transport is used add a digital cable

So there's literally hundreds of options represented here, and that without shopping for brands/models of hardware.  And this doesn't even cover software options/setups.  No wonders I'm looking for a simple, idiot proof, audiophile quality solution.

Finally my questions:  Out of all this what do you see as the weakest link(s) to this approach?  And how would you eliminate them?  What do you foresee the future improvements being?

TIA

Offline richidoo

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Re: Weak link(s)
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 06:09:49 AM »
Jitter is the weak link in digital playback. There are variuous kinds of jitter caused by different mechanisms and all sounding different.  There are various jitter killing methods now. I use Sabre32 DAC. In the future, all DAC chips will eliminate jitter, and reject PSRR enough that the cost of excellent CDP and DACs can come way down.

There is no loss of data in any of the early steps on your list. The trouble starts on step 5 when the data enters the time domain.  USB is hard to make work well enough for high end audio.  I have had good luck with  media servers now that I can fix the jitter after them.

Steve Nugent of Empirical Audio has some nice writings on the subject.
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_nugent.htm
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 06:26:59 AM by richidoo »

Offline rollo

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Re: Weak link(s)
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2009, 07:20:41 AM »
I would say the weak link now is the USB connection. As Rich stated not really for audio. Firewire appears to have an edge at this time. There are USB DACs available from $300 to $6000. I believe Weiss makes a firewire DAC but not inexpensive around $5000.
   If you want to give it a try for $300 the Musicstreamer+ from HRT is a good place to start. Actually quite a good piece competing with DACs up to the $1500 range. If you want a transport look at used or new CEC units. IMO one of the giants in the field. Have fun.

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Offline JLM

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Re: Weak link(s)
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 03:45:05 AM »
So as a total computer idiot, yet seeing the demise of CDs, I was toying with the idea of moving from a CD transport to a modded Wadia 170i with an iPod.  The obvious downsides are limited storage capacity and eventual need to replace the iPod battery.

So my next questions are:

What formats could I use to rip/store with?

Is there any sonic advantage to going with an iTouch (with SSD) versus an iClassic (with HD)?

TIA

Offline richidoo

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Re: Weak link(s)
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 07:10:59 AM »
Apple Lossless is similar to flac, decodes to perfect stream like wav.  I use dbpoweramp to transcode my flacs to Apple Lossless to go on my wife's iPod.

The mechanical HD in the classic is larger than the SSD. The SSD is good for shock resistance,if you jog with it, etc, but has more capacity than flash based player like nano. My wife has a iPod 5 classic, it is very nice.

Only get an ipod if you want the portability. It's analog output is not great. Ipod + modded Wadia should make good sound, but the price is getting up there.  You still need to use the computer to get full value from the iPod. Instead of iTunes, you can use Red Chair software's Anapod to manage your iPod. It works great.

The demise of CDs is greatly overstated. It is currently the only way to purchase full resolution music in popular genre with a large library.  Until higher speed internet connections are available to majority of music buyers, it will stay.

How 'bout using the computer with foobar (or other player software) to a great DAC? There are some nice DACs now for <$1000. Foobar is as easy as an iPod and more flexible.

CDP is still the easiest to use of all. A great DAC can make any cheap CDP sound great. Transport quality is irrelevant with a jitter eliminating DAC. The Prima Luna ProLogue8 is a great value CDP, as is used Raysonic.

Fun decision for you!

Offline JLM

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Re: Weak link(s)
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 04:32:50 PM »
Yes, it occurs to me that the iPod/Wadia (modded) route is not cheap especially when you consider the need for a computer with HD backup.  (And I got voted "least likely to run" on the high school tennis team all 4 years, so I don't jog). 

I'm using a modded Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ, DAC, and baffle step/zobel (I run single driver speakers) and am quite happy with it as a DAC.  My current transport is an Oppo DV-970HD (something I'm slumming with after bombing out with the modded SB3).

I'm not interested in dealing with tubes for a CDP being used just as a transport.

Srajan reviewed the Olive and really liked it as a transport.  Of course you need backup/additional HDs, but maybe a used one could fit the computer dummy bill.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 04:37:55 PM by JLM »