I think my System is virtually finished

[steve]

Doing a little cleaning out my favorites, I found this string from AC forum.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114637.0

I found a tiny tweak in the up graded DAC's power supply, just a little cleaner in the upper bass, lower midrange.

I know, I know, I performed a tweak. Well, all I can say is that it was extremely minor.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Audiophiles  don’t forget great products. I imagine you occasionally get in an 11a or a 10a to replace caps or do some other maintenance. As to your dac, I’m assuming you are still using the Schiit Modi 2?

Hi Nick,

To answer your last question first, yes I am still using it. I adjusted the power supply uf total just a hair
as well as the voltage rating for one cap. What is sometimes irking is that the shape and voltage rating
of a cap affects the sonics. Of course higher voltage rating, more conductor area, more resistance involved.

I have 16 smaller poly caps in parallel in the power supply for the analog chip gain stage. For
another tweak, I could change the other analog supply, with 5 caps, and go with a bunch of smaller
and see what happens.

I just can't stop tinkering for that final gram of improvement, and I thought I could go no farther when I
started this string. The title of this string makes me a hypocrite. I will change the title to almost finally finished.

Concerning your first comment, actually no 10As have come for a decade or more. The last one I recall
working on had the gold plating of a tube socket filament pin separate, causing an intermittent tube
filament heating.

I have had two 11As that needed repair. The first was on the initial tour (~17 years ago?), when a Mills military
grade resistor became noisy. The second 11A, in Europe, an intermittent audio output relay (in parallel) that
sometimes refused to open after 45 seconds, thus the output remained shorted to ground. I believe that was
a decade, give or take, ago.?

I have tinkered around, on my own 11A, with switching the initial electrolytic capacitor to poly, so it will
last forever. This does not affect the sonics because I use a hefty 5 filter stages after it. I checked the
caps in the drawer, and in use, and after 20 years they are still measuring near perfect. I can only
attribute such to two reasons.

1. The caps have very little surge and repetitive peak currents; far far below max rated. Just a few ma.

2. The operational temperature is just a few degrees F above room temp. I believe the general rule of
thumb is that for every 20 degrees F below max rated temperature by the manufacturer, one can double
the hours of useful life. The hours rating by manufacturer is at max temperature and ripple current.

Just calculating by temperature, I arrived at 90,000 hours. Since the ripple current in the 10A/11A is just
a few ma., the life should be much higher.

One customer, I replaced a couple of resistors to Vishay naked Bulk foil after I tested them in my 11A.
I think they are a little bit better than originals. No one else has contacted me for the Vishays.

If I have missed something, please correct me, but I don't think so.

Cheers and happy 4th Nick and Gents.

steve

Hi Steve,

Glad that Modi is sounding excellent. I remember when Jeff at Sonic Craft on AC was raving about the performance of a Bifrost after some mods. I’m surprised you didn’t have a number of customers asking you to make changes over the years.  We all get curious over time if a piece of equipment can be made to sound better. I am also curious if a 10a unit can be brought up to the specs of an 11a and has anyone requested that.

As to the yearning to keep tinkering and improving, that’s what this hobby is all about! 

Hi Nick,

Well, I suppose a tiny tweak is not too bad.

It took some major upgrading but the results were worth while, and cost was reasonable. I had the vast
majority of parts in the stock bin. In its stock form, the Modi 2 was quite poor. Fortunately, the problems
were in the analog sections.

I posted 'wanted to purchase Modi 2s' on several forums but not one response, so evidently no one
has one,,, or has one for sale???

No way to upgrade the 10A to the 11A; needs a completely different board.

I have been retired for some 10 years, and would not mind selling my designs, including the amps,
phono stage. I, of course, would teach them the advanced science necessary for their
understanding/knowledge. There is much more involved than one thinks, or as mentioned many
times, a few equations. And the antique designs bantied about will never get one there.

Cheers and great 4th.

steve

[Nick B]

Doing a little cleaning out my favorites, I found this string from AC forum.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114637.0

I found a tiny tweak in the up graded DAC's power supply, just a little cleaner in the upper bass, lower midrange.

I know, I know, I performed a tweak. Well, all I can say is that it was extremely minor.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Audiophiles  don’t forget great products. I imagine you occasionally get in an 11a or a 10a to replace caps or do some other maintenance. As to your dac, I’m assuming you are still using the Schiit Modi 2?

Hi Nick,

To answer your last question first, yes I am still using it. I adjusted the power supply uf total just a hair
as well as the voltage rating for one cap. What is sometimes irking is that the shape and voltage rating
of a cap affects the sonics. Of course higher voltage rating, more conductor area, more resistance involved.

I have 16 smaller poly caps in parallel in the power supply for the analog chip gain stage. For
another tweak, I could change the other analog supply, with 5 caps, and go with a bunch of smaller
and see what happens.

I just can't stop tinkering for that final gram of improvement, and I thought I could go no farther when I
started this string. The title of this string makes me a hypocrite. I will change the title to almost finally finished.

Concerning your first comment, actually no 10As have come for a decade or more. The last one I recall
working on had the gold plating of a tube socket filament pin separate, causing an intermittent tube
filament heating.

I have had two 11As that needed repair. The first was on the initial tour (~17 years ago?), when a Mills military
grade resistor became noisy. The second 11A, in Europe, an intermittent audio output relay (in parallel) that
sometimes refused to open after 45 seconds, thus the output remained shorted to ground. I believe that was
a decade, give or take, ago.?

I have tinkered around, on my own 11A, with switching the initial electrolytic capacitor to poly, so it will
last forever. This does not affect the sonics because I use a hefty 5 filter stages after it. I checked the
caps in the drawer, and in use, and after 20 years they are still measuring near perfect. I can only
attribute such to two reasons.

1. The caps have very little surge and repetitive peak currents; far far below max rated. Just a few ma.

2. The operational temperature is just a few degrees F above room temp. I believe the general rule of
thumb is that for every 20 degrees F below max rated temperature by the manufacturer, one can double
the hours of useful life. The hours rating by manufacturer is at max temperature and ripple current.

Just calculating by temperature, I arrived at 90,000 hours. Since the ripple current in the 10A/11A is just
a few ma., the life should be much higher.

One customer, I replaced a couple of resistors to Vishay naked Bulk foil after I tested them in my 11A.
I think they are a little bit better than originals. No one else has contacted me for the Vishays.

If I have missed something, please correct me, but I don't think so.

Cheers and happy 4th Nick and Gents.

steve

Hi Steve,

Glad that Modi is sounding excellent. I remember when Jeff at Sonic Craft on AC was raving about the performance of a Bifrost after some mods. I’m surprised you didn’t have a number of customers asking you to make changes over the years.  We all get curious over time if a piece of equipment can be made to sound better. I am also curious if a 10a unit can be brought up to the specs of an 11a and has anyone requested that.

As to the yearning to keep tinkering and improving, that’s what this hobby is all about! 

Hi Nick,

Well, I suppose a tiny tweak is not too bad.

It took some major upgrading but Modi 2 is worth it. I had the vast majority of parts in the stock bin.
I posted 'wanted to purchase Modi 2s' on several forums but not one response, so evidently no one
has one,,, or for sale???

No way to upgrade the 10A to the 11A. Needs a completely different board.

I would not mind selling my designs, including the amps, phono stage, athough one can build the different
models from my schematics, board, parts etc. I, of course, would teach them the advanced science
necessary for their understanding/knowledge. There is much more involved than one thinks, or as
mentioned many times, a few equations.

Cheers and great 4th.

steve

Hi Steve.

Thanks for answering the questions about the preamps to satisfy my curiosity. You did an amazing job with that Modi 2 and liked it better than my border patrol dac. I had Gary Dews install the Jupiter beeswax caps and I sure like the sound. But I think in-spite of that, your Modi would still likely perform a bit better. I do like the border patrol a lot because of its engaging and natural presentation….  My Supratek Chardonnay preamp resolves so beautifully and I’m very pleased it brings out the best in the border patrol.

[steve]

Doing a little cleaning out my favorites, I found this string from AC forum.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114637.0

I found a tiny tweak in the up graded DAC's power supply, just a little cleaner in the upper bass, lower midrange.

I know, I know, I performed a tweak. Well, all I can say is that it was extremely minor.

cheers

steve

Hi Steve,

Audiophiles  don’t forget great products. I imagine you occasionally get in an 11a or a 10a to replace caps or do some other maintenance. As to your dac, I’m assuming you are still using the Schiit Modi 2?

Hi Nick,

To answer your last question first, yes I am still using it. I adjusted the power supply uf total just a hair
as well as the voltage rating for one cap. What is sometimes irking is that the shape and voltage rating
of a cap affects the sonics. Of course higher voltage rating, more conductor area, more resistance involved.

I have 16 smaller poly caps in parallel in the power supply for the analog chip gain stage. For
another tweak, I could change the other analog supply, with 5 caps, and go with a bunch of smaller
and see what happens.

I just can't stop tinkering for that final gram of improvement, and I thought I could go no farther when I
started this string. The title of this string makes me a hypocrite. I will change the title to almost finally finished.

Concerning your first comment, actually no 10As have come for a decade or more. The last one I recall
working on had the gold plating of a tube socket filament pin separate, causing an intermittent tube
filament heating.

I have had two 11As that needed repair. The first was on the initial tour (~17 years ago?), when a Mills military
grade resistor became noisy. The second 11A, in Europe, an intermittent audio output relay (in parallel) that
sometimes refused to open after 45 seconds, thus the output remained shorted to ground. I believe that was
a decade, give or take, ago.?

I have tinkered around, on my own 11A, with switching the initial electrolytic capacitor to poly, so it will
last forever. This does not affect the sonics because I use a hefty 5 filter stages after it. I checked the
caps in the drawer, and in use, and after 20 years they are still measuring near perfect. I can only
attribute such to two reasons.

1. The caps have very little surge and repetitive peak currents; far far below max rated. Just a few ma.

2. The operational temperature is just a few degrees F above room temp. I believe the general rule of
thumb is that for every 20 degrees F below max rated temperature by the manufacturer, one can double
the hours of useful life. The hours rating by manufacturer is at max temperature and ripple current.

Just calculating by temperature, I arrived at 90,000 hours. Since the ripple current in the 10A/11A is just
a few ma., the life should be much higher.

One customer, I replaced a couple of resistors to Vishay naked Bulk foil after I tested them in my 11A.
I think they are a little bit better than originals. No one else has contacted me for the Vishays.

If I have missed something, please correct me, but I don't think so.

Cheers and happy 4th Nick and Gents.

steve

Hi Steve,

Glad that Modi is sounding excellent. I remember when Jeff at Sonic Craft on AC was raving about the performance of a Bifrost after some mods. I’m surprised you didn’t have a number of customers asking you to make changes over the years.  We all get curious over time if a piece of equipment can be made to sound better. I am also curious if a 10a unit can be brought up to the specs of an 11a and has anyone requested that.

As to the yearning to keep tinkering and improving, that’s what this hobby is all about! 

Hi Nick,

Well, I suppose a tiny tweak is not too bad.

It took some major upgrading but Modi 2 is worth it. I had the vast majority of parts in the stock bin.
I posted 'wanted to purchase Modi 2s' on several forums but not one response, so evidently no one
has one,,, or for sale???

No way to upgrade the 10A to the 11A. Needs a completely different board.

I would not mind selling my designs, including the amps, phono stage, athough one can build the different
models from my schematics, board, parts etc. I, of course, would teach them the advanced science
necessary for their understanding/knowledge. There is much more involved than one thinks, or as
mentioned many times, a few equations.

Cheers and great 4th.

steve

Hi Steve.

Thanks for answering the questions about the preamps to satisfy my curiosity. You did an amazing job with that Modi 2 and liked it better than my border patrol dac. I had Gary Dews install the Jupiter beeswax caps and I sure like the sound. But I think in-spite of that, your Modi would still likely perform a bit better. I do like the border patrol a lot because of its engaging and natural presentation….  My Supratek Chardonnay preamp resolves so beautifully and I’m very pleased it brings out the best in the border patrol.

Hi Nick,

The Border Patrol that I tested is pretty darn good. No slouch that is for sure.
I remember I preferred the SS rectification with the box physically warmed up to be its most accurate,
natural.

For my system, I have the upgraded Modi 2 switched to "E", 24/192. I have improved the sound since it
was compared to the $4500 Lampizator and Border Patrol. Too bad music lovers live so far away.

I have come to the general conclusion that the main difference between DACs is in the analog sections.

This includes:

1. the digital to analog chip, analog section power source  (The digital section has a separate power source.)

2. the external analog gain stage of ~2 (6db). (Whether SS or tube, why have it and its associated parts.)

3. the power supply to the external gain stage

Great 4th, and to honor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omd9_FJnerY

steve

[Nick B]

Thank you Steve. That is a very moving Fourth of July tribute.
https://youtu.be/Omd9_FJnerY

[steve]

Another tidbit is to lose the inductor if one can, especially when next to the decoupling capacitor.
Why? Because there is another filter capacitor on the other side of the inductor.

With the inductor in said circuit, that decoupling capacitor is not what you think it is.

The reactance of the inductor,  is determined by   XL = 2pi times F times L.

2pi is 6.28
F is frequency
L is inductance in henries

As one can see, as the frequency increases, the inductance increases.
The result is the isolation between the before and after filter capacitors varies with frequency.

One has two reactive filter capacitors with a reactive inductor/choke in between. When reactive
parts mix, nothing remains the same. It gets really messy.

However, a good power resistor provides constant isolation regardless of audio frequency.
(Better to have non inductive resistor to behave better at high frequencies.)

If that were not bad enough, it gets worse. The inductor has dc winding resistance. Below is
a circuit/photo showing how the inductive reactance and dc resistance deviate the frequency
response of a simple inductive/resistor circuit.

Instead of a straight diagonal line, it is curved. So the isolation between filter capacitors is
also curved vs frequency.

Simply put, the combination of inductance and dc resistance is not good.
(Unfortunately, SET amps need the inductors to minimize hum while keeping voltage losses to
a minimum. PP type amplifiers have rejection properties inherent to minimize hum.)

Any change in musical information is defined as distortion.

If possible, as a test, bypass the inductor with a power resistor equal to the
winding resistance, to keep the DC voltage constant and isolation between capacitors
constant vs frequency. (Hopefully the hum will be within limits.)

Cheers

steve

ps. I have edited several previous posts for clarity and more info.
 

[steve]

I found an upgrade to my STD 305M table and SME lll arm setup. The SME has two holes between
the cartridge mounting holes, and a single null point. I had purchased an SME lll protractor and been using it.

I just found out that a Stevenson protractor with 2 null points at 60mm and 117mm, from Vinyl Engine,
clearly out performed the SME protractor.

Hope this helps others.

steve
 

[steve]

glad to hear that, 3 years after you started this thread, you're still not finished.  😉

holly hippodaze,

doug s.

If one knew what is involved with the entire stereo project, it is mind boggling.
If I knew what would be involved, what I know today, I would have never started.  However, the
results now are extremely satisfying.

I started when I heard a friend's stereo system back in ~1980 that was so bad I still find it difficult to
comprehend. 40 years later... per your thoughts.

One cannot use specialized listening tests to check input to output integrity of the source and
speakers as one can with the preamp, amp, and ics. (The specs one reads for components are close to
worthless in terms of actual input to output musical accuracy.) In otherwards, the instruments/voices
do not sound natural.

Once the preamp, amp, ics are proven to actually be accurate/natural (25 years), then one has to use
teeter/totter method to increase the integrity of the source, speaker, and speaker wires. I have worked
on the speakers alone for some 9 years; the result is masking is near zero, as a minute adjustment of
1 part in a million in a speaker crossover being heard. I cannot do much more with the room acoustics.

cheers

steve

[GDHAL]

I'll add to this thread by writing that nobody who's a serious audiophile is ever *finally* finished with their "system", until said individual is deceased.

[steve]

I'll add to this thread by writing that nobody who's a serious audiophile is ever *finally* finished with their "system", until said individual is deceased.

That is probably true for most everyone, but I am really super close to perfection in playback
quality under lab conditions, which virtually no one else will be able to accomplish. I wish others
could. Still, a few tidbits. 

With the upgraded dac, IF possible rid of the analog gain of 2 (6db) and check out.
That stage will almost certainly degrade the sound a little. However, with
no schematic, no analog chip part number, and with shaky hands, I will probably do more
damage than improvement, so I won't attempt to bypass the stage.
   
Possible speaker xover tweak/adjustment if All speaker wires were
Jenalabs 6N hook up wire vs partial Jenalab wires used.

None of my components use NOS tubes, none. I will say that my 11A line pre and
25ppt amp are the world standard for musical accuracy and naturalness. Pro Musica (Champaign,
Illinois) came fairly close to accurate/natural reproduction in the pre and amps they upgraded.

The main problem that I am encountering on my end is bumping up against inferior quality recording
equipment producing inferior quality music (which many fail to consider). At least half of all the electronics
from singer to listener is the recording equipment. If I had the finances and were younger, I would 
have designed and build a recording studio.

That is about it (stated just in case I forgot something).

cheers

steve

[gjm]

The main problem that I am encountering on my end is bumping up against inferior quality recording
equipment producing inferior quality music (which many fail to consider). At least half of all the electronics
from singer to listener is the recording equipment. If I had the money and were younger, I would love
to design and build a world standard recording studio.

I can't comment on the quality of equipment used in recording (studios), but the quality of some recordings is quite dire. The 'loudness wars' may be over (are they?) but poor engineering, poor mastering, and where physical media is concerned, poor materials and poor manufacturing lead to an extremely unsatisfactory result.

[rollo]

 We are slaves to the source being the medium we use to play back music. I cherish my great recordings. How about we start a list of great recordings in every Genre ??

charles

[Nick B]

We are slaves to the source being the medium we use to play back music. I cherish my great recordings. How about we start a list of great recordings in every Genre ??

charles

Sounds like a great idea 

[GDHAL]

We are slaves to the source being the medium we use to play back music. I cherish my great recordings. How about we start a list of great recordings in every Genre ??

charles

Are you speaking about recordings that were recorded digitally, analog, professionally, unprofessionally, or however so?

As to the spirit of your post, this is why I stated in a different thread, regarding the voicing of one's system, that IMO the number two variable on the pecking order list of all things audio is the recording itself.

Best.

Hal

[steve]

Every type of recording equipment has analog stages (unless digital to digital for sonic manipulation etc),
which must be carefully designed. The old style recording studio designs from the 40s and 50s are
antiquated and certainly in need of improvement.

Virtually all analog stages have electrolytic capacitors. Typical electrolytic type capacitors have DA
250 times higher than the better poly capacitors. Internal inductance is probably that high as well.
ESR is also typically higher.

I believe some recent recording equipment designs have improved some; the consoles I have
seen in the past have parts and design quality typical of $199.00 receivers. That is certainly not
a compliment.
However, we understand when creating a recording studio, the routing of the interior necessities,
and equipment can run up to several hundred thousands of dollars+.

Any recording equipment that I am aware of contains many electrolytic capacitors.

Components can use all Polypropylene capacitors in the direct signal path which includes the power
supplies, all parts highest quality, as well as completely separate power supplies, including
power transformers, for each stage's DC voltages.
This eliminates any musical signal from interfering and degrading the musical quality from other stages.
This is a minimum.             

Amplifiers can be monoblock for superior channel separation, to hear what is being
recorded. The preamplifier can be mirror channels, which can have excellent channel separation
when laid out properly.

I mention this because it can be done. It is not pie in the sky. This is just partially what is required
for any recording studio to be of the highest quality standards. The expense involved is considerable
to be sure. Cost may be a problem.

Cheers

steve

[rollo]

 Hal any format. A great recording is a great recording. BTW Steve how did you implement the volume control ??? Last thread was removed.

charles