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Technics TT

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bobrex:

--- Quote from: richidoo on April 24, 2008, 10:39:20 AM ---bobrex, I for one would love to hear your POV on SL1200.... :)  I think we are currently Technics free zone now that chairguy has sold his. I have a Q2 only until I can get a Project or Rega, (or build one???) but I freely admit the SL-Q2 is nothing more than a vintage midfi spinner that I got for free.

--- End quote ---

Oh man... where do I start?  Let's keep this simple... I have a problem with Technics as a company, how it chose to sell its products, and how it subsequently supported the product.  I have history with this going back into the mid-70s.

As far as the 1200 itself, I get frustrated with the people who (much like the Bose crowd) believe the 1200 to be the BEST turntable out there.  Not the best at the price, not the best under a price, but THE BEST!!!!!  Few of these people have any true experience with better tables, many of them are spec driven, many of them hook the tables up to 70's vintage receivers, and they get incredibly defensive when you point out problems.  Like the Bose cult, nothing else beats it (ironically KAB was able to "improve" the table - but that's OK) and spending any more money for a table is foolish.  These people are "wise" while the rest of us are fools.

Or maybe I'm just fed up with the mindset on a couple of forums - the Hoffman site being the prime example.

richidoo:
I'm with you Bob. That is a perfect post for this thread, and very valuable to me. I still think of Technics as stuff you buy for $129 in Lechmere, a first class department store in Dedham, MA. Not something sold in TechHifi down the road. When I started reading about the KAB mods and the 1200 reviews out there of course I was intrigued, but since then thanks to Carlman, Chairguy, even Wayner who still likes his after serious mods and heroic experimenting, I have decided against that route. Your opinion further adds to my decision. Thanks!!!!
Rich

thechairguy:

--- Quote from: richidoo on April 25, 2008, 07:44:21 AM ---I'm with you Bob. That is a perfect post for this thread, and very valuable to me. I still think of Technics as stuff you buy for $129 in Lechmere, a first class department store in Dedham, MA. Not something sold in TechHifi down the road. When I started reading about the KAB mods and the 1200 reviews out there of course I was intrigued, but since then thanks to Carlman, Chairguy, even Wayner who still likes his after serious mods and heroic experimenting, I have decided against that route. Your opinion further adds to my decision. Thanks!!!!
Rich
--- End quote ---

Rich et al, I still have my SL-1200....I just found no matter what was tried it was inferior to my (similar vintage) JVC QL-F6 table (also DD, also a Matsushita division, btw).  It's internally damped tonearm and much heavier and oversized platter are two reasons I know of why it's better.....one other is, I think, my Technics led a harder life before my ownership (it looks it, at least).

What else after that I'm not sure.  I could go another $300 for KAB's outboard power supply and strobe disabler or move on to something else that needs-a-fixin'.   :-k

Mind you, I changed the arm out and had a $3K Origin Live Illustrious Mk. III on it :shock:.  Overall, compared with the same arm and cartridge, I still rate is slightly higher than my VPI HW-19 MK. III that goes for a bunch more (my much used/abused SL-1200 was less than $150, with damaged arm, on ebay),  The HW-19, sans arm, goes for about $600 on Audiogon these days.

Without tightly regulated speed control, even with a 12 lb platter for flywheel effect, a belt drive table cannot compete.  CD spoiled me/us forever for speed consistency....I can't go back to cassette deck like speed control.  But, it's another $750-1000 to add it to the VPI.  8)

That's more than I spent on everything, including Grado cartridge, for the JVC (butcher block, brass toes, plast-i-clay, Herbie's mat, constrained layer damping mat, TI Shield, constrained layer damping bottom).  So, utter frugality and currently pure sonic pleasure is keeping from experimenting further with the VPI.

btw, mine's not even the best deck JVC made...one on A'gon now is:  http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1211852785

He's about $100 high on the price based on ebay sales...but that one is the pinnacle of JVC achievement in direct drive (heavy, oversized platter, electronic Q-damped arm, 10" long tonearm, swappable straight and S arms, and more)...made in 1985.  If you want a great table at an affordable price, that's one to truly look at.  Oh yeah, fully auto too...making vinyl a lot less painful.

The more isolation and damping I add to the JVC, the better it gets.  I made a constrained layer damping sub-platter for it, a TI Shield covering the platter surface (reducing interaction of stray EM fields from motor below to cartridge above) and constrained layer damping on the back and bottom of the unit lately.  The effects have been truly excellent.

If I wasn't so glutton to experience mo' betta', I'd stop right there.  But, I'm an audiophool arseho'  :roll:

As for PS Audio, I'm not totally slagging the company...only that my experience with 6 items from them has been poorly received.  Somewhere out there, they must make something of high value (I like their damn hyperbole and costing on their PC-OCC cables out now...there I go again...glutton)

John

richidoo:
Thanks John! ALways a fun read, your posts. I saw your SL1200 ad and figured since I was so close to buying it, that someone else wiser than me must have eventually grabbed it...

That JVC looks good! I'm looking at that, thanks for the tip.

What is a TI shield for the platter? Is that the pad Wayner sells? Where to buy, or how to make?
Thanks
Rich

thechairguy:
Rich - keep in mind my SL-1200 led a particularly abused life.  The Technics decks are very hardy (unless they are thrown out of a 2 story or higher window, they survive, but don't look pretty).  Mine works fine..looks ugly....but the JVC sounds better, still.

Then again, after a period of time the motors begin to vibrate in the Technics and KAB's outboard supply fixes that issue entirely.  For $300 I might try it and see if it improves drastically.  I'd feel better selling it to someone with that fixed in it's entirely. 

Most of the criticism of that deck comes from it's arm....but I entirely replaced it with a $3K tonearm and still the JVC outclassed it.  However, a vibrating motor can cause havoc on vinyl playback...so I don't know IF that is an issue (or if it is an issue at all even if bone stock) or not right now  :-k

Nonetheless, I've babied it to health by restoring the motor bearing with Tufoil and setting it up carefully on more compliant squishy puds for feedback rejection. Also, all the switches were cleaned (they were de-gunked and the platter lifted, and cleaned underneath - dust and dirt had migrated there)

TI Shield (http://www.cladit.com/examples/emi-rfi-shielding.html) attenuates EMI better than anything else on the market.  I bought a $30 piece from Michael Percy Audio and cut my own 12" round for the platter (under the subplatter of Isodamp constrained layer damping)

It just so happened, without collusion with Wayner, that I was doing the same thing as him at the same time with his stainless steel shield.  His looks nicer and was a little cheaper than mine...but the TI Shield is fully effective across the entire frequency spectrum while the stainless steel is limited (as is traditional copper, steel, aluminum or other attempts at shielding).

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