Altman Vs Lector CDP.

[rollo]

 well thanks to the generosity of Richadoo I had the opportunity to compare the Altman to the Lector. The Lector a tubed unit against a SS Dac costing three times less revealed more than I thought.
    First off the Lector for some odd reason would not play the Altman from its digital output. The other Dacs on hand had no problem using the Lector as a transport. I used a Sony 755 and a Protron DVD as well. Both transports made no difference to the Altmans sound both sounded fine.
    The Altman a naked little device looks like " I paid $1500 for this, I'm freaken nuts". A bare bones exercise that does its job and does it well. The Altman offers a different perspective on the presentation with its clarity and slamatronic bass lines. An overall musical presentation with very good tonality and slam. The topend was a bit rolled off compared to the Lector. Midrange was accurate and smooth with the Altman and smoother with the Lector but not colored too much,just enough to get you emotionally involved. The bass on the Altman was more dynamic and had a better slam factor. That SS bass will get ya every time. The tonality of bass was bettered slightly by the Lector.
    So far you get the picture. the Altman is a wonderfull DAC that compares well to the Lector. What the Altman didn't do compared to the Lector was by omission rather than better.
   The soundstage of the Lector was 3D compared to the 2D+ of the Altman. Microdynamics,depth of field, decay of notes and space between the instruments by the Lector made the biggest difference between the two players. The next difference is what did it for ME. The emotional impact, ya know when it hits ya in the heart baby was the Lectors forte. Yes the Altman sang the song but the Lector crooned ya.
   All in all the Altman is a fine DAC that can be synergized to any system. The fact that you get this much for $1500 is amazing. Although I preferred the Lector overall I still miss the slam of that bass.
   If you want a more refined sound spend $4500 on the Lector. If you want 80% of the Lector for $1500 buy the Altman. For me the extra money is worth the dosh in my setup.
   Richadoo thanks again for the time with your baby. It was a blast. A fine DAC for sure. It did nothing wrong. Besides no need for fancy powercord. Just a car battery and your in.
     Altmanadelic baby!

rollo

   
     

[tanchiro58]

Hi Rollo,

You should compare your Lector with my modded Attraction DAC which was done by a medical electronic engineer (not me) with a guide of Herr Charles Altmann. I have modified and tweaked my Promitheus DAC almost to the max but still not beat by 80% of the modded Altmann DAC (noted Promitheus DAC is $385 compared to $1650 of Altmann DAC).

Regards,
Tan

[rollo]

Hey Tan,
              I compaed the Promitheus to the Lector and Altman. A good DAC for the money. However my original point in another thread was that the inexpensive DACs were good to very good but NOT equal to th DAC or CDPs costing over $4500. You can tweak them to death and the results are still the same. Now the tweaked version is very good but its still not a Lector, Esoteric, Larvey, MSB3,Muse, Classe and so on.
            If one never hears these DACs in their system there is no turning back. Yes the inexpensive DACs can bring the music but not in the same way. The small differences loom large in the final presentation.
           Paticularly, if a system with class A resolution is involved the difference is quite obvious. In a lesser resolving system it dosn't matter much.
           I have tried most popular DACs [$500 to $1500] and to date none have dethroned the Lector. Close yes but no cigar. At this point in time I'm tired of trying to find the "bang for the buck  tweak it DAC" and just want the whole enchalada. Better is better. If we want it all, unfortunately we have to spend the money.
           Now ,if your are a modder then by all means try a cheapie and go to town with it. It can be fun, however in the long run its  close but still not there. The only inexpensive DAC that did it for me is the Oritek 2.5 with a custom 100W power supply by DaHong of NY. Under $1000 with Mods.
           Would love to compare your modded Altman to the Lector and the Oritek. Let me know.


rollo
             

[tanchiro58]

Rollo,

Maybe you are right about your Lector DAC in your system. It is not just based on an expensive and good DAC like Lector but also other components. I owned quite a few expensive sources, preamps and amps (the price range of each was not less than 10K) but I got tired with expensive stuffs but less enjoyable times I got to change every six months or a year. That is why I choose "bang for a buck" components to firstly fit my budget and secondly keep happier wife in a family. Moreover, it is fun to modify my audio components to compare with other expensive one in other friend's components.

In addition to that, I went to CES 2008 and saw the downturn of the big brand name audio manufacturers (except AN Japan) because of cutting down high costs to lower the retail prices to be compatible with consumer's pockets. A lot of very young audio manufacturers have better stuffs (with reasonable retail prices) according to my sonic tastes especially I like very much the sounds of Dan Wright and RAM rooms. I asked myself. What is happening? Is this maybe now a big time for modification?

[richidoo]

Nice little comparo rollo. Thanks.  I will look forward to hearing the Lector sometime. I'm sure in your system it is a joy. I found their homepage if anyone wants to see what rollo is talking about. What model is it?
http://www.docet-lector.com/
http://www.docet-lector.com/010.htm

Considering my short history of digital sources, Samsung universal, then SB3, the Altmann is a big step up for me - at least the music is pure and tone is realistic. But I have heard the difference you are talking about, and the Audio Research CD7 with tube output stage remains my best digital experience yet.

I'm glad you had some fun!  The amp has been on vacation for a month or so, due back tomorrow, it will be nice to hear them reunited again!
Rich
Rich

[rollo]

It is the Lector CDP7, The tubes [two] are 12AT7s. Richadoo expect the DAC to be  returned next week.
Tan, The DAC and CDP were both in the same system, ihas nothing to do with expensive related components . It was a equal comparison.
    I am in agrrement that the big names are lowering their prices as they should. High End has been high priced since the begiining. Warranted or not that was thw game. I have heard many great sounding systems for little money.
    The insertion of a High End CDP or DAC always took the already fine sounding system to another level. More so than changing anything else.
    There will always be a market for both,especially the latest and greatest giant killer for less money. I wish I could only spend $500 on a DAC and be satified. In reality its an ongoing chase. I do not change components often or play the revolving system game. The only change in three years now has been installing V-caps in the Amp. Oh and two ESP cords for the amps as well.
   When I was at Promitheus in Malaysia I heard Nicholas' system with bang for the buck components. It was very good but lacked the finess, tonality and clarity of the big boys. His GM70 amps were IMO the only component to equal or surpass quite a few amps. They were to be sold for serious money around $10,000 for the Statement edtion we never got to market. Too bad, it could have been a contender IMO.
  In the end the source rules. So IMO thats where the good money should go, thats all I'm really saying. Have fun trying and hope you succeed.


rollo

[rollo]

   I was able to try another transport before shipping back to Richadoo. We used an early CEC with Tent clock mod. The CEC has a warm character. The combo proved well. A combo you could listen to all day long WITHOUT fatiuge. This combo lost a bit of slam compared to Sony transport but not much. AllCDs sounded different in character. Meaning a great recording sounded great and a poorly recorded one poor. No massaging of the signal to compensate for the character of the recording. Actually I could live with this combo for a long time.
    As I've staed numerous times before its all about synergy. Wonder which transport if any Altman reccomends. Anyway with the different transport it was more organic and whole. A good thing.
    So, if you have only $1500 to spend this is the one to buy. With the right transport and digital cable your in like Flynn.



rollo

[richidoo]

Glad to see you feelin a little better rollo. Thanks for trying it again, that is interesting discovery. Actually Altmann's concept is that his input buffer system and JISCO anti jitter scheme make the upstream digital transport irrelevant. Mine doesn't have JISCO option, but it does have the standard input buffer scheme, which is very innovative. I use "nothin special" brand transport and home depot digi coax and still love it. With your noticing a difference I will have to crank up the Nervosa and see what differences can be heard with better gear. Thanks for the tip.

[Carlman]

Keep in mind a lot of what Rollo is describing could just as easily be describing the differences of oversampling vs. non oversampling.  Sounds like it was overall a pretty close comparison with the differences being in the finer points.  Just like Rollo found, there will be things you like better about each DAC.. it'd just be a matter of your preferences which one you chose.

I can give up a little upper-high resolution to get rid of the fake air and shimmer of oversamplers.  At 4500, I would think the Lector should sound excellent but after listening to any oversampling DAC so far, I've preferred coming back to a less-resolving non-oversampler for long-term/permanent listening.

BTW, it looks like Lector needs a new website...

-C

[tanchiro58]

I can give up a little upper-high resolution to get rid of the fake air and shimmer of oversamplers.  At 4500, I would think the Lector should sound excellent but after listening to any oversampling DAC so far, I've preferred coming back to a less-resolving non-oversampler for long-term/permanent listening.

BTW, it looks like Lector needs a new website...

Agreed!!!

[rollo]

    Interesting point. Upsampling is an art. Only very few DACs or CDPS do it correctly. Theta being one and Lector, Weiss. Its all in the math. The Theta cost $10,000. The Weiss $18,000. Forget the MBL which IMO the best so far. The price is insane but the performance is stunning.
    With these players its done correctly. However the cost of entry is the killer. Until you put one of these players in YOUR system you'll never know whats possible. You give up nothing. Unless you try its all opinion.
     I could live with the Altman if I never heard the Theta, Lector, Weiss and MBL. Direct comparison is the only way. Happy listening boys.


rollo

[miklorsmith]

Never forget the system matching issue.  I had three terrific players side-by-side in my rig last weekend, they were all good but I liked mine best in my rig.  However, it was clear that in another system I would almost assuredly have a different opinion.

[richidoo]

Altmann doesn't specifically say it, but I believe he is upsampling with the xylinks programmable chip he is using for digital receiver. He has quite a blurb about the superiority of higher sampling rates to redbook.
It's good to have it back in the system, what a difference. Now I wanna try some digi cables to see if improvement as you suggest rollo.

[Carlman]

    Interesting point. Upsampling is an art. Only very few DACs or CDPS do it correctly. Theta being one and Lector, Weiss. Its all in the math. The Theta cost $10,000. The Weiss $18,000. Forget the MBL which IMO the best so far. The price is insane but the performance is stunning.
    With these players its done correctly. However the cost of entry is the killer. Until you put one of these players in YOUR system you'll never know whats possible. You give up nothing. Unless you try its all opinion.
     I could live with the Altman if I never heard the Theta, Lector, Weiss and MBL. Direct comparison is the only way. Happy listening boys.


rollo

Nice... I like the adult vs. youngster feel to your post.  I could just hear this dialogue while I'm reading... "One day I hope to grow up and try a real DAC! Please, Dadddy, Please, can I try one now?... Not now son, maybe one day, when you're older.... 

It's hard to believe Lector or Theta gets Math right yet gets marketing so wrong.  Their sites look ho-hum and in Lector's case terrible... this is the face they've chosen to display to the world... the 'leaders' in technology.  MBL's site looks OK at a glance but nothing 'innovative'. It's just hard to take them seriously or believe in them.  It's like eating good sushi in an old dirty strip mall... If you're 'in the know' you're going to have great food, if not, you think... hmm.. Let's try somewhere cleaner, safer, etc.

I know hearing is believing, though... If I get a chance to hear one of these top-oversamplers in my system, I will report back what I hear.  It'll be nice to have a 'real audio room' to properly compare them also... Every day I get a little closer.. Then I can say everyone's room is for little boys and mine is for real men..

[miklorsmith]

Heh, if it's for *real men* I might not be allowed in.   

If you get the chance Carl, you should hear a Lessloss with clock-linked transport in your setup.  The entry fee is a lot less than those other heavy hitters though they're touting the clock as a crucial element in the digital equation.  I don't know the ingredients or their relative contributions but the dish is really special.  It's musical and detailed and relaxed and dynamic.  It definitely sounds solid state which it is - could be an issue or not, depending on the rest of the system.

I was a total NOS guy before and I still really enjoy that flavor.  I still have my Altmann and don't plan on selling it.  This combo is wickedly good though, I really hope they get discovered on a larger scale.

Oh, and their website kicks ass.