Added a DAC, added a hum. Suggestions?

[tmazz]

If you are going through the trouble of doing the labor yourself I would certainly put in two home run circuits, it's really not that much extra work. I always keep my power amps on their own breaker to make sure they don't interfere with any of the lower level equipment. (Although I do acknowledge that my amps are a bit more power hungry that most  with the tube amp being 200 wpc and the two solid state amps being 500 wpc each. At least I only use one at a time in each system.  )

And I agree with Rich, put in 20 amp circuits. They will perform better and you never know when you will come across a piece of equipment that requires one. For example the ARC VT-200 Mk II power amp comes equipped with a 20A IEC socket and cord even though the max rated current draw on th4 amp is about 12 amps. I can only assume they want more copper in the PC but the fact is if you brought one of these home and only had a 15A receptacle available you would be out of luck. The incremental cost of running 20 vs 15A circuits is very small in the grand scheme of things and it can easily save you from some future headaches.

[eleazar]

That's awesome! Have fun guys.

Use 10ga romex instead of 12ga to reduce resistance, especially on a long run. 10ga is used for 20A circuit, but upgrading the breaker to 20A is optional, you probably won't need it and you could do that later. Better to spend on a nice outlet.  

If by chance you end up doing two dedicated runs, they should be on the same leg, so all audio is using the same phase AC.

Rich that I didn't think off. We had talked about 10 ga wire and 20 amp circuits and while I wouldn't call it a long run it surely isn't next to the panel.

Could we use 10/3 wire or would it be better to run 2 separate wires. Are 2 neutrals wires a plus ??

[richidoo]

Hi Bill,
By same leg, I mean same buss and same phase. There are two hot buss bars inside the service panel, each one carries 120V in opposite phase.



A double pole circuit breaker takes up two breaker positions in the panel and connects to both busses, adding together the two legs, giving you 240V on the line.

A single pole breaker only connects to one hot buss, only takes one (or half) position and only provides 120V service. A single pole breaker can use either buss, but not both. Since the two busses are opposite phase, two separate 120V lines could be either in phase or opposite phase depending on the panel position of the circuit breakers. The two opposite phases should not be mixed together in the audio system. Choose breaker positions so that both circuits use the same buss and have the same phase.

Breakers alternate phase through vertical positions in the service panel, while breakers on the same horizontal row are the same phase.

[richidoo]

Could we use 10/3 wire or would it be better to run 2 separate wires. Are 2 neutrals wires a plus ??

You must run two separate lines for two separate circuits.  10/3 is just for complex wiring like multiple switches, switched half outlet on one circuit. It's not meant to carry two separate circuits. Use two runs of 10/2, one for each breaker.

Neutrals sense a fault and trip the breaker, so you don't want to do anything weird with them. Each circuit gets one breaker, one hot, one neutral and one ground.

I assume you know what you're doing Bill, but in case you are new to this remember you can do most of the work of pulling the wires under the house and then have an electrician hook up to the panel for <$100.

[rollo]

 You cannot get a better explanation than what has been provided by Richidoo.
    The benifit of dedicated circuits and say Jena or Hubbel Cryoed duplex receptacables is going to make you real happy.
     Using one for the digital and the other for the amps and Pre.
     If and when completed try an Uberbuss. Others here are using the Uber and are very pleased with the outcome. Have fun trying.



charles

[eleazar]

Could we use 10/3 wire or would it be better to run 2 separate wires. Are 2 neutrals wires a plus ??

You must run two separate lines for two separate circuits.  10/3 is just for complex wiring like multiple switches, switched half outlet on one circuit. It's not meant to carry two separate circuits. Use two runs of 10/2, one for each breaker.

Neutrals sense a fault and trip the breaker, so you don't want to do anything weird with them. Each circuit gets one breaker, one hot, one neutral and one ground.

I assume you know what you're doing Bill, but in case you are new to this remember you can do most of the work of pulling the wires under the house and then have an electrician hook up to the panel for <$100.

I know how to run and wire to the breakers and outlets. I assumed that you would need 2 runs. I have a outlet tester to check things when I'm finished

[richidoo]

Thanks Charles! 

Bill I figured you knew what you're doing and just using your creative thinking to save Gene some money on wire. 

Sharing two separate circuits on one 10/3 wire run doesn't meet code because the single wire can't handle the heat of two 15A circuits at full tilt inside one wire jacket. It would melt the insulation and short. Maybe not now with small audio loads, but maybe later with vacuum cleaner and space heater running, or when Gene hits the jackpot and upgrades to Melody 100W 845 monoblocks. 

[eleazar]

Thanks Charles! 

Bill I figured you knew what you're doing and just using your creative thinking to save Gene some money on wire. 

Yes I was, 250 ft of 10/2 is $228 at Home Depot 

[richidoo]

Yeah, that's a long run. Mine is only 60 feet, but I thought that was long... Cost me $75 installed when I built the house in '05. Now I wish I got two! But in honesty, one is all I've ever needed. Two would be more convenient, but I never needed more power.

Just make a single dedicated run to two duplexes in a double box, or make a shared circuit with just the two outlets spaced apart. If the connections between the two outlets are good it will make no difference. Or go crazy and not cut the wire, just strip insulation and bend around the screws, then carry on to the next outlet. A lot more work, but if you're cuckoo this is what is required. 

[eleazar]

I'm thinking each run would be about 75'. So 2 ~100 ft rolls would do.Not sure if they sell 150 ft rolls.

ANT online has 250' for $155 plus what ever shipping costs
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/wire-cable/wire/nmb-cable-with-ground-white-10-2-awg?utm_source=google_pr&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Wire-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CPTHjYOxkrACFUdN4AodXkbMpg

[etcarroll]

I simply love the way you guys are spending my money! 

[eleazar]

I simply love the way you guys are spending my money! 

What the Fark are friends for Kemosabe

[etcarroll]

Well, since there seems to be a plan, but not one happening this week, and I'm on the road following 3 weeks, I broke down and put a ground lift plug on the 12 Plus, and reseated it in the Quintet.

Hum 100% gone.

But I'm not comfortable living like this.

[richidoo]

Bill, you really don't need two lines. It is overkill.

And before you whip out that AMEX Black Card, be advised that the dedicated line does not guarantee the hum is cured. It is just a likely cure based on how I interpret your symptoms. I could be full of shit (there I said it...  ) or the loop could be within your system.

Many people run a lifter on the preamp or source permanently, especially with tubes involved. So it is a possible avenue to consider. The safety ground is probably still intact through the interconnects anyway, that's why it hums. But you shouldn't rely on that as a safety ground.

[eleazar]

Bill, you really don't need two lines. It is overkill.

And before you whip out that AMEX Black Card, be advised that the dedicated line does not guarantee the hum is cured. It is just a likely cure based on how I interpret your symptoms. I could be full of shit (there I said it...  ) or the loop could be within your system.

Many people run a lifter on the preamp or source permanently, especially with tubes involved. So it is a possible avenue to consider. The safety ground is probably still intact through the interconnects anyway, that's why it hums. But you shouldn't rely on that as a safety ground.

Listen being full of shit is my job and if your going to take over
you must ready to be full of it. The final say is up to Gene but a dedicated line could only help matters. I'd be happy to help Gene because he's such hapless fellow