Author Topic: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers  (Read 32414 times)

Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2019, 11:35:29 PM »
Nick

As it turns out the RM-9 might be a perfect amp for the Carrera's but they are no longer. An alternative might be the Rogue ST-100.  I had one and it was a great sounding amp but with the temperatures in Florida I couldn't tolerate the heat it put out. I have an RM-10 here which outputs 35 wpc which I haven't tried so I don't know if that is enough power or not.  As to the AVA SET series amps you might want to check with Larry on AC as he has tried both the 120 and 400 with his Maggies and see what he thinks.  Frank and two reviewers from Audiophillia are using the SET amps with the Alta Audio Celesta FRM monitors which are among the most resolving on the market with stellar results.  My personal opinion is that unless you are listening to the likes of Dianna Krall, Anne Bisson, etc. at lower volumes then the Carrera's need power.  It's kind of like the Spatial's.

Thanks, Jack. I’ll check those out. I may be a little biased against Frank as he refused to put IEC connectors in his products for the longest time. That’s the main reason I didn’t buy one of his amps years ago.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2019, 09:13:23 AM »
   Congrats on purchase. Guys lest you forget I am a Fritz dealer. Anyway the Audio Hungary APX 200 tubed Amp will make ya cry with the Carrera. Perfect match especially with AH preamp which you own. Not a fan of AVA . Find them thin and bright. AS good as a class "D" amp can be and I own a great one [ Arion HS 500] the tubed Amp is the way to go with Carrera.


charles
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 10:19:36 AM by rollo »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2019, 02:06:23 PM »
   Congrats on purchase. Guys lest you forget I am a Fritz dealer. Anyway the Audio Hungary APX 200 tubed Amp will make ya cry with the Carrera. Perfect match especially with AH preamp which you own. Not a fan of AVA . Find them thin and bright. AS good as a class "D" amp can be and I own a great one [ Arion HS 500] the tubed Amp is the way to go with Carrera.


charles

Thanks for your input, Charles. It’s always appreciated.
Nick
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Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2019, 08:47:11 PM »
As an experiment while the Carrera's are in the Main dedicated listening room, 15' x 19' x 10',  I decided to try them with a tube amp and started with my physically smallest and lowest powered, the Music Reference RM-10 that I have owned for almost 20 years.  Gear may come and go but it is one piece that will never leave.  Roger rates it's output from (4) EL-84 tubes at 35 wpc and as I have never seen a review with a lab test we will assume Roger is accurate.  As it is small and light enough I turned off the power to the BHK 250 and after it cooled down I placed a microfiber towel on top it and sat the RM-10 on top of the BHK.  After swapping the connections to the preamp I inserted a pair of TWL speaker cables and the high level connections to the Rythmik subs. As it hadn't been used for almost a year I let it warm up checked the bias, still good, and started up the music.  I was able to easily get to 90 db, per RS meter, with the amp showing no sign of strain. And Charles is right they do sound better with the tubed RM-10 and the tubed BHK preamp than they did with even the Audia Flight integrated.  I've got one other tube amp I may try it with, the Mystere (upscaled Primaluna made in the Melody factory) that uses EL-34's for 40 wpc. Only thing is with it is that at just under 50 pounds it may be a stretch sitting it on top of the BHK and at 90 lbs the BHK is a bitch to move out of the way.  So if your room's not to big or you don't play at extreme levels 30-40 got watts of tube power should be good.  The only thing I saw of interest at a reasonable price if you don't need to buy new is a mint condition AVA Ultravalve for $1100 on AC.

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166130.0
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 09:18:12 PM by Jack »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2019, 09:26:56 PM »
As an experiment while the Carrera's are in the Main dedicated listening room, 15' x 19' x 10',  I decided to try them with a tube amp and started with my physically smallest and lowest powered, the Music Reference RM-10 that I have owned for almost 20 years.  Gear may come and go but it is one piece that will never leave.  Roger rates it's output from (4) EL-84 tubes at 35 wpc and as I have never seen a review with a lab test we will assume Roger is accurate.  As it is small and light enough I turned off the power to the BHK 250 and after it cooled down I placed a microfiber towel on top it and sat the RM-10 on top of the BHK.  After swapping the connections to the preamp I inserted a pair of TWL speaker cables and the high level connections to the Rythmik subs. As it hadn't been used for almost a year I let it warm up checked the bias, still good, and started up the music.  I was able to easily get to 90 db, per RS meter, with the amp showing no sign of strain. And Charles is right they do sound better with the tubed RM-10 and the tubed BHK preamp than they did with even the Audia Flight integrated.  I've got one other tube amp I may try it with, the Mystere (upscaled Primaluna made in the Melody factory) that uses EL-34's for 40 wpc. Only is with it is that at just under 50 pounds it may be a stretch sitting it on top of the BHK and at 90 lbs the BHK is a bitch to move out of the way.  So if your room's not to big or you don't play at extreme levels 30-40 got watts of tube power should be good.  The only thing I saw of interest at a reasonable price if you don't need to buy new is a mint condition AVA Ultravalve for $1100 on AC.

Jack,
I got a FedEx text today and Fritz called as well that the Carreras are going to be here tomorrow. That’s amazing customer service and Fritz said there are about 50 hours on them. I’ll be quite curious playing them with my ICE amp. I expect a wonderful presentation with at least some of that harshness I’ve complained about being gone. I continue to be curious what a tubed amp would sound like as well. Glad you’re still happy with that RM-10.
I play loud as well in the >85 db range and the room is 17’x26’x10’. I looked at the AVA on Frank’s site and the retail is $1,600. I’d like to put an additional 50 hours on the Carreras and then think more about a different amp.
Nick
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 09:40:23 PM by Nick B »
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Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2019, 10:25:05 PM »
According to Fritz my pair had considerably more hours than that at his house and the shop but I gave them another 150 hours so I think you may need to count on more than 50 more hours for that Revelator woofer to open up. With the tube gear in front of it you may end up happy with the IcePower amp so don't rush.  Don't have any idea how much the AH amp Charles is recommending cost but I do know the Rogue ST-100 would be more than enough power and with the climate where you live you won't have the heat issues I had in an enclosed room in Florida plus the Rogue allows for power tube rolling flexibility as I tried KT-120's, KT-88's and KT-77's.  Plus if there are service issues Mark and his people in Pa. are easy to work with and a phone call away. I picked up a mint used one and when I sold it three months later I didn't lose a dime.  I actually preferred the sound with the KT-77's into the Otello's.
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Offline rollo

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2019, 06:54:40 AM »
  Nick 250 hours of break in to get it all. The Audio Hungary APX 200 is 100W/ch. Uses NOS tubes. Matches with the AH preamp and has a perfect synergy with Fritz speakers.
  My advice is to break in the speaker with the amp you have now. After 250 hours try another.
charles
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 07:02:30 AM by rollo »
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2019, 09:01:02 AM »
According to Fritz my pair had considerably more hours than that at his house and the shop but I gave them another 150 hours so I think you may need to count on more than 50 more hours for that Revelator woofer to open up. With the tube gear in front of it you may end up happy with the IcePower amp so don't rush.  Don't have any idea how much the AH amp Charles is recommending cost but I do know the Rogue ST-100 would be more than enough power and with the climate where you live you won't have the heat issues I had in an enclosed room in Florida plus the Rogue allows for power tube rolling flexibility as I tried KT-120's, KT-88's and KT-77's.  Plus if there are service issues Mark and his people in Pa. are easy to work with and a phone call away. I picked up a mint used one and when I sold it three months later I didn't lose a dime.  I actually preferred the sound with the KT-77's into the Otello's.

I believe the AH amp retails for $4,000 and the Rogue $3,500. As to repairs for the AH stuff, I don’t know who would handle that. I sent AH an email with questions about the amp and preamp, but haven’t heard back.
I’m not as concerned about the woofer performance as I am about the harshness problem. I’ll play Jennifer Warnes “Way Down Deep” to test the bass performance.
The Carreras will arrive at the end of today.

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Offline rollo

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2019, 10:07:47 AM »
According to Fritz my pair had considerably more hours than that at his house and the shop but I gave them another 150 hours so I think you may need to count on more than 50 more hours for that Revelator woofer to open up. With the tube gear in front of it you may end up happy with the IcePower amp so don't rush.  Don't have any idea how much the AH amp Charles is recommending cost but I do know the Rogue ST-100 would be more than enough power and with the climate where you live you won't have the heat issues I had in an enclosed room in Florida plus the Rogue allows for power tube rolling flexibility as I tried KT-120's, KT-88's and KT-77's.  Plus if there are service issues Mark and his people in Pa. are easy to work with and a phone call away. I picked up a mint used one and when I sold it three months later I didn't lose a dime.  I actually preferred the sound with the KT-77's into the Otello's.


   No need to worry about repairs for AH as they are built like a tank. If ever needed we have authorized repair in USA. To date ZERO issues. AN discount as well.  As I mentioned break it in first. The top end which is important to you and I will take some time.

charles

I believe the AH amp retails for $4,000 and the Rogue $3,500. As to repairs for the AH stuff, I don’t know who would handle that. I sent AH an email with questions about the amp and preamp, but haven’t heard back.
I’m not as concerned about the woofer performance as I am about the harshness problem. I’ll play Jennifer Warnes “Way Down Deep” to test the bass performance.
The Carreras will arrive at the end of today.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2019, 12:07:05 PM »
  Nick 250 hours of break in to get it all. The Audio Hungary APX 200 is 100W/ch. Uses NOS tubes. Matches with the AH preamp and has a perfect synergy with Fritz speakers.
  My advice is to break in the speaker with the amp you have now. After 250 hours try another.
charles

Charles,
You and Jack both like over 200 hours for break in. I’ll put as many hours on them as I can before my Thanksgiving guests arrive. I’m intrigued by that AH amp and hopefully they’ll get back to me regarding my email. Per my reading, the newer version of the amp has different circuitry regarding the bias.
Nick
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2019, 12:13:00 PM »
  Nick 250 hours of break in to get it all. The Audio Hungary APX 200 is 100W/ch. Uses NOS tubes. Matches with the AH preamp and has a perfect synergy with Fritz speakers.
  My advice is to break in the speaker with the amp you have now. After 250 hours try another.
charles

Charles,
You and Jack both like over 200 hours for break in. I’ll put as many hours on them as I can before my Thanksgiving guests arrive. I’m intrigued by that AH amp and hopefully they’ll get back to me regarding my email. Per my reading, the newer version of the amp has different circuitry regarding the bias.
Nick

Charles,
Just returned home and posted, then saw your post. Zero warranty issues is good  :thumb: The Carreras have arrived and will hook them up now. I was fortunate that I was home. Timing is everything 😀
Nick
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Offline Jack

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2019, 06:38:08 PM »
Nick

Any first impressions as to system balance with your current setup?
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2019, 11:55:46 PM »
Nick

Any first impressions as to system balance with your current setup?

Jack,
Initial impressions earlier today was some boomy bass and virtually the same harshness on some violins, trumpets, female voices etc. I didn’t think it was the speaker, rather that it was room interactions. Played them at low/medium volume while I was out, then much higher volume in the evening. The Carreras easily played loud and handled being in the large, open space floor plan.
Quite by accident, I turned up the somewhat and occasionally noisy pot on my AH preamp and noticed hiss and hum from each driver. This is likely contributing to that harshness when I crank ‘em up.
As I played more tunes, I found some excellent recordings and the Carreras were doing some outstanding things. They were excellent in detail retrieval, imaging, better realism of instruments like piano, drums, guitar. Some of the bass reproduction was excellent with no hint of boomy bass. My guess is that certain, low frequencies interact with the room. Now I’ve never used any room treatments in my current or previous homes. I sent Dave some room pics some months ago and he showed Greg who produces room treatments. It seems I have a problem space and that’s the way it is. I could put drapes along the windows on one side,etc.... Don't really want to get into that. I wonder if Roon has software so I could use a mic...
I haven’t played with speaker placement at all and will work on that tomorrow. As to what’s causing the noise at higher volume, I have no idea. I’m using Dave’s Uber and one of his treated wall outlets.
It’s been fun listening today and there’s way more performance to be had. The Carreras seem quite superior to the the KEF LS 50s, but I never added subs, so that unidriver was likely working too hard.
Been a long day and I’m off to bed.
Nick
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 09:05:40 AM by Nick B »
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Offline rollo

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2019, 08:16:28 AM »
 Cool and congrats.  Check your connections. Enjoy. Place your speakers as wide apart as you can until you loose the center image. Then move back until you get center, done. Then try different distance from front wall, done. Then toe in or not done. Either decouple of spike stands. Try both ways makes a big difference. Then pour a drink and be very happy. No room treatments until broken in and properly placed first.


charles
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Fritz Carrera 7 BE or Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2019, 08:30:25 AM »
Cool and congrats.  Check your connections. Enjoy. Place your speakers as wide apart as you can until you loose the center image. Then move back until you get center, done. Then try different distance from front wall, done. Then toe in or not done. Either decouple of spike stands. Try both ways makes a big difference. Then pour a drink and be very happy. No room treatments until broken in and properly placed first.


charles

I moved them back a little more from the front wall last night. Will play more with positioning tonight. Played Fanfare and 1812 last night. Amazing bass for such a small speaker  :thumb:
Nick
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