Author Topic: Everything makes a difference...  (Read 498 times)

Offline S Clark

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Everything makes a difference...
« on: April 09, 2021, 09:25:43 PM »
I picked up two pairs of Wywires RCA interconnects a few days ago.  I haven't really had a chance to listen to them today, but I've got a friend coming over tomorrow, bringing some Audioquest IC's so I needed to get cracking.
My wife is out of town, so lots of things are possible.  I started with a really nice LP, Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter".  Just threw it on the table, kept my old IC's in, no diffusion in place, coffee table in front of leather couch... nothing optimized, and it sounded like it.  My line sources can overpower the room easily, and the song "Way Down Deep" just did its boomy thing at about 120Hz. 
So I put the diffusor panels in place in front of the big screen, and a second pair forming forward wings outside the speakers.  Things improved.  Moved the coffee table, things improved.  Changed to the new/used Wywires silvers, things improved.  Moved the couch back to open some space, switched to classical.  Hi Q recording of Rimsky Korsakov Capriccio Espagnol.  Took out the leather couch, moved in a cloth covered love seat. Things improved. More space, more detail.  Changing the seating furniture is clearly an improvement.   
Next turned out the lights, and poured myself a hot cup of coffee.  Don't know if the music was better, but I enjoyed it more. 
Everything makes a difference... :thumb:
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline P.I.

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2021, 09:35:23 PM »
I picked up two pairs of Wywires RCA interconnects a few days ago.  I haven't really had a chance to listen to them today, but I've got a friend coming over tomorrow, bringing some Audioquest IC's so I needed to get cracking.
My wife is out of town, so lots of things are possible.  I started with a really nice LP, Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter".  Just threw it on the table, kept my old IC's in, no diffusion in place, coffee table in front of leather couch... nothing optimized, and it sounded like it.  My line sources can overpower the room easily, and the song "Way Down Deep" just did its boomy thing at about 120Hz. 
So I put the diffusor panels in place in front of the big screen, and a second pair forming forward wings outside the speakers.  Things improved.  Moved the coffee table, things improved.  Changed to the new/used Wywires silvers, things improved.  Moved the couch back to open some space, switched to classical.  Hi Q recording of Rimsky Korsakov Capriccio Espagnol.  Took out the leather couch, moved in a cloth covered love seat. Things improved. More space, more detail.  Changing the seating furniture is clearly an improvement.   
Next turned out the lights, and poured myself a hot cup of coffee.  Don't know if the music was better, but I enjoyed it more. 
Everything makes a difference... :thumb:
How often have I said these things?

Everything effects (affects) everything...

The room is the most important interconnect in the system...

Oh, yeah:  power is the heart of the system that helps the brain work.

Just sayin'.
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Offline Nick B

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2021, 09:52:47 PM »
I picked up two pairs of Wywires RCA interconnects a few days ago.  I haven't really had a chance to listen to them today, but I've got a friend coming over tomorrow, bringing some Audioquest IC's so I needed to get cracking.
My wife is out of town, so lots of things are possible.  I started with a really nice LP, Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter".  Just threw it on the table, kept my old IC's in, no diffusion in place, coffee table in front of leather couch... nothing optimized, and it sounded like it.  My line sources can overpower the room easily, and the song "Way Down Deep" just did its boomy thing at about 120Hz. 
So I put the diffusor panels in place in front of the big screen, and a second pair forming forward wings outside the speakers.  Things improved.  Moved the coffee table, things improved.  Changed to the new/used Wywires silvers, things improved.  Moved the couch back to open some space, switched to classical.  Hi Q recording of Rimsky Korsakov Capriccio Espagnol.  Took out the leather couch, moved in a cloth covered love seat. Things improved. More space, more detail.  Changing the seating furniture is clearly an improvement.   
Next turned out the lights, and poured myself a hot cup of coffee.  Don't know if the music was better, but I enjoyed it more. 
Everything makes a difference... :thumb:

Interesting you should mention Jennifer Warnes The Hunter. I use a few tracks on that when I need to get into “reviewer” mode when I’ve made some changes. It’s good to hear you got some good results making some simple changes. Acoustic panels are next after I’m done with resonance control...
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Offline S Clark

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2021, 10:10:59 PM »
The Hunter has been a standard for evaluation since Danny Richie introduced me to it in the early 2000's. But I just got the vinyl a year or so ago- it's got some sounds that the digital is missing.   I keep acoustic panels behind the speakers full time... 6 inches of Corning 703 covered by a Persian rug.  The diffraction goes up and down. 
And Dave, I knew I was quoting you when I typed it...  :thumb:
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline tmazz

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2021, 10:30:58 PM »
I had a professor in engineering school who. Used a water spigot as a paradigm for the operation of a transistor or a triode. He said imagine a water valve whose flow was controlled by some sort of low water pressure. If that low pressure opened and closed the valve then the output flow would be exactly analogous to the input pressure except it would be boosted to a higher pressure that would be dependent on the pressure being delivered to the house by the city water department. This is exactly the same as a small voltage signal applied to the base of a transistor controlling the flow of the higher voltage between the collector and the emitter. (Highly simplified but it makes the point.)

He then went back to thewater flow example and said however, it is easy to see that you will only get a perfect replica at higher pressure  if the pressure from the city water department is perfectly stable, because if there are any fluctuations in the city water pressure then the output flow would be a combination of the valve fluctuations drive by the input plus any fluctuations in the city water pressure and therefore the output pressure would never be a prefect analogy of the input with gain.

He then went back to electricity and said this is why power supply design is so important, because any deviations from pure dc in your amplifier design will ultimately find there way into your output as distortion.

I think we all know now that even good power supplies can do just so much and anything we can do to give them cleaner power to start with can only improve their operation and that of our systems as a whole.

That professor was Dr Edward Kaffreson and he was by far the best engineering teacher I ever had. His goal was not to get you the blindly crank out math equations the produced the  “right” answer, but rather he was always more concerned the you understood how and why a circuit I did what it did. He was happier to hear you explain some in English  than to see you prove it mathematically. Took every class I could with him.

The only other teacher I had that came close to him was a lab teacher by the name of Val Sanford who had just retired from Grumman as the Chief Test Engineer for the Lunar Module program. Val used to yell at us when we tried to run equations in the lab. He used to say “You can let the PhD professors teach you how to solve textbook problems, let me teach you how to be a real engineer. If we took did 30 minutes of math to size every resistor in the Apollo program we wouldn’t have made it to the moon until the year 2525.”  One of my most exciting moments at NYIT was when I got into Val’s Control System labs. Who better to teach you about control system than the Chief Test Engineer for the Lunar Module? It was a great class.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 10:35:14 PM by tmazz »
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Offline tmazz

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2021, 10:38:11 PM »
I picked up two pairs of Wywires RCA interconnects a few days ago.  I haven't really had a chance to listen to them today, but I've got a friend coming over tomorrow, bringing some Audioquest IC's so I needed to get cracking.
My wife is out of town, so lots of things are possible.  I started with a really nice LP, Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter".  Just threw it on the table, kept my old IC's in, no diffusion in place, coffee table in front of leather couch... nothing optimized, and it sounded like it.  My line sources can overpower the room easily, and the song "Way Down Deep" just did its boomy thing at about 120Hz. 
So I put the diffusor panels in place in front of the big screen, and a second pair forming forward wings outside the speakers.  Things improved.  Moved the coffee table, things improved.  Changed to the new/used Wywires silvers, things improved.  Moved the couch back to open some space, switched to classical.  Hi Q recording of Rimsky Korsakov Capriccio Espagnol.  Took out the leather couch, moved in a cloth covered love seat. Things improved. More space, more detail.  Changing the seating furniture is clearly an improvement.   
Next turned out the lights, and poured myself a hot cup of coffee.  Don't know if the music was better, but I enjoyed it more. 
Everything makes a difference... :thumb:

Interesting you should mention Jennifer Warnes The Hunter. I use a few tracks on that when I need to get into “reviewer” mode when I’ve made some changes. It’s good to hear you got some good results making some simple changes. Acoustic panels are next after I’m done with resonance control...

Great album. Good for equipment evaluation, but I can sit down dim the lights and really enjoy it from a musical perspective as well.

Not many albums arcane play well on both sides of that fence.
Remember, it's all about the music........

• Nola Boxers
• Sunfire True SW Super Jr (2)
• McIntosh MC 275
• ARC SP-9
• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Benz Micro Glider
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint/Denon 2910
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cable

Offline Nick B

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2021, 10:57:16 PM »
The Hunter has been a standard for evaluation since Danny Richie introduced me to it in the early 2000's. But I just got the vinyl a year or so ago- it's got some sounds that the digital is missing.   I keep acoustic panels behind the speakers full time... 6 inches of Corning 703 covered by a Persian rug.  The diffraction goes up and down. 
And Dave, I knew I was quoting you when I typed it...  :thumb:

That is an album I’d really enjoy hearing, but I sold my TT and it’s in the process of being revived by the new owner in so. California. One of my favorite songs for evaluation is Lights of Lousianne. May have a listen later this evening  :thumb:
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Nick B

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2021, 10:58:30 PM »
I had a professor in engineering school who. Used a water spigot as a paradigm for the operation of a transistor or a triode. He said imagine a water valve whose flow was controlled by some sort of low water pressure. If that low pressure opened and closed the valve then the output flow would be exactly analogous to the input pressure except it would be boosted to a higher pressure that would be dependent on the pressure being delivered to the house by the city water department. This is exactly the same as a small voltage signal applied to the base of a transistor controlling the flow of the higher voltage between the collector and the emitter. (Highly simplified but it makes the point.)

He then went back to thewater flow example and said however, it is easy to see that you will only get a perfect replica at higher pressure  if the pressure from the city water department is perfectly stable, because if there are any fluctuations in the city water pressure then the output flow would be a combination of the valve fluctuations drive by the input plus any fluctuations in the city water pressure and therefore the output pressure would never be a prefect analogy of the input with gain.

He then went back to electricity and said this is why power supply design is so important, because any deviations from pure dc in your amplifier design will ultimately find there way into your output as distortion.

I think we all know now that even good power supplies can do just so much and anything we can do to give them cleaner power to start with can only improve their operation and that of our systems as a whole.

That professor was Dr Edward Kaffreson and he was by far the best engineering teacher I ever had. His goal was not to get you the blindly crank out math equations the produced the  “right” answer, but rather he was always more concerned the you understood how and why a circuit I did what it did. He was happier to hear you explain some in English  than to see you prove it mathematically. Took every class I could with him.

The only other teacher I had that came close to him was a lab teacher by the name of Val Sanford who had just retired from Grumman as the Chief Test Engineer for the Lunar Module program. Val used to yell at us when we tried to run equations in the lab. He used to say “You can let the PhD professors teach you how to solve textbook problems, let me teach you how to be a real engineer. If we took did 30 minutes of math to size every resistor in the Apollo program we wouldn’t have made it to the moon until the year 2525.”  One of my most exciting moments at NYIT was when I got into Val’s Control System labs. Who better to teach you about control system than the Chief Test Engineer for the Lunar Module? It was a great class.

Great story, Tom. Thx
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
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PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline rollo

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2021, 01:30:29 PM »
  Great find Scot. Yes everythingie makes a difference. Enjoy !!

charles
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Offline S Clark

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2021, 03:21:55 PM »
All of the sequence I went through were things I'd notice before, but it always gets me that moving that leather couch and replacing it with a lower back, cloth stuffed love seat is soooooo noticeable.  Usually I don't bother, but I should.  It's one of those things that gets the stink eye from the wife.  No complaints though.  She lives with huge absorbers and large cylinder corner traps until the book club ladies come to call. 
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Nick B

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2021, 06:34:28 PM »
I picked up two pairs of Wywires RCA interconnects a few days ago.  I haven't really had a chance to listen to them today, but I've got a friend coming over tomorrow, bringing some Audioquest IC's so I needed to get cracking.
My wife is out of town, so lots of things are possible.  I started with a really nice LP, Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter".  Just threw it on the table, kept my old IC's in, no diffusion in place, coffee table in front of leather couch... nothing optimized, and it sounded like it.  My line sources can overpower the room easily, and the song "Way Down Deep" just did its boomy thing at about 120Hz. 
So I put the diffusor panels in place in front of the big screen, and a second pair forming forward wings outside the speakers.  Things improved.  Moved the coffee table, things improved.  Changed to the new/used Wywires silvers, things improved.  Moved the couch back to open some space, switched to classical.  Hi Q recording of Rimsky Korsakov Capriccio Espagnol.  Took out the leather couch, moved in a cloth covered love seat. Things improved. More space, more detail.  Changing the seating furniture is clearly an improvement.   
Next turned out the lights, and poured myself a hot cup of coffee.  Don't know if the music was better, but I enjoyed it more. 
Everything makes a difference... :thumb:

I’m hoping you can elaborate on your issues at 120 hz. How were you able to zero in on that? I have not (yet) gotten into buying a mic and software.
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
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Border Patrol SEi dac
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Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline S Clark

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2021, 08:42:00 PM »
When I first built the LS9 speakers, I did a lot of experimenting for best positioning.  Not long after I picked up one of if not the first HAL MS-1 server.  Rich had set it up with Foobar 2000, which had an option showing dB output at frequency.  I don't remember the jazz piece, but the bass ran down a scale from about 170 Hz to around 60 Hz.  The screen showed an even output down the scale, but the room clearly boomed from about 125 to 115Hz.  You couldn't miss it. Sort of an effect like
dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.

The interesting thing was that although I built and moved lots of absorption around, setting diffusors in the corners in front of the bass traps helped the most- not the traditional roll of them. 
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 08:46:42 PM by S Clark »
“In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.” Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Nick B

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2021, 08:54:39 PM »
When I first built the LS9 speakers, I did a lot of experimenting for best positioning.  Not long after I picked up one of if not the first HAL MS-1 server.  Rich had set it up with Foobar 2000, which had an option showing dB output at frequency.  I don't remember the jazz piece, but the bass ran down a scale from about 170 Hz to around 60 Hz.  The screen showed an even output down the scale, but the room clearly boomed from about 125 to 115Hz.  You couldn't miss it. Sort of an effect like
dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum.

The interesting thing was that although I built and moved lots of absorption around, setting diffusors in the corners in front of the bass traps helped the most- not the traditional roll of them.

Thanks, Scott. Another area I need to explore...
Van Alstine SET 120 Control Amp
Audio Hungary APR 204 preamp
Fritz Carrera 7 BE speakers
Border Patrol SEi dac
Auralic Aries Mini & Mojo Audio lps
Audio Envy cables
Roon, Tidal, Qobuz
PI Audio UberBUSS

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2021, 09:17:32 AM »
The Hunter has been a standard for evaluation since Danny Richie introduced me to it in the early 2000's. But I just got the vinyl a year or so ago- it's got some sounds that the digital is missing.   I keep acoustic panels behind the speakers full time... 6 inches of Corning 703 covered by a Persian rug.  The diffraction goes up and down. 
And Dave, I knew I was quoting you when I typed it...  :thumb:

That is an album I’d really enjoy hearing, but I sold my TT and it’s in the process of being revived by the new owner in so. California. One of my favorite songs for evaluation is Lights of Lousianne. May have a listen later this evening  :thumb:

No doubt Jennifer Warnes "The Hunter" is a well recorded studio album with great session musicians. It reminds me of a Steely Dan album but with with a female singer... Personally, I'm not a fan of synthesized drums & special effects... Listened to it last night in its entirety (Impex 180g LP).

I like real analogue recordings, like the ones Rudy Van Gelder recorded in his home in NJ... Goosebumps... or a very simple recording using a portable Ampex tube tape recorder like this one... 


They said Sonny Boy had very large feet. You can hear his leather soles slapping the wood stage in an empty night club in Copenhagen in 1963. Also, his "simultaneous" harp playing and singing... does he swallow his harmonica??? Also, someone opens the club door & a bus drives by... Cool!

Cheers,
Pete
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Offline rollo

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Re: Everything makes a difference...
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2021, 10:15:03 AM »
All of the sequence I went through were things I'd notice before, but it always gets me that moving that leather couch and replacing it with a lower back, cloth stuffed love seat is soooooo noticeable.  Usually I don't bother, but I should.  It's one of those things that gets the stink eye from the wife.  No complaints though.  She lives with huge absorbers and large cylinder corner traps until the book club ladies come to call.
Was reading a comment one day from a fellow audiophile who said he had reflections off leather chair. Covered wit a blanket all gone. Mine is now covered.

charles
 
contact me  at rollo14@verizon.net or visit us on Facebook
Lamm Industries - Aqua Acoustic, Formula & La Scala DAC- INNUOS  - Rethm - Kuzma - QLN - Audio Hungary Qualiton - Fritz speakers -Gigawatt -Vinnie Rossi,TWL, Mad Scientist, Swiss Cables