Two and a half months later...

[sleepyguy24]

Am I glad to hear that. Albeit brief when I did listen to your system with the Moscode in place I didn't hear a problem at all. When you are ready to try another attempt at Bi-amping let me know. I've got a couple of amps I'm willing to lend you as well to try and run the bass of your VS speakers.

[StereoNut]

Thanks, Dean... but I think the only attempt I'll ever make at Bi-amping my system would be if I found and bought another  George Kaye modded Moscode 600 to match up with mine.

SN

[StereoNut]

I had the pleasure of two of my audio buddies stopping by for a listen last night.  Didn't bother with the Dayton Bi-amp set up because my mind was made up on that already from last weeks evaluation.

We instead focused on the Primaluna pre vs. the Dodd pre. My guests confirmed what I thought was a bigger than possible improvement with the Primaluna in my system.  (I guess the Dodd is going up for sale soon!)

Also swapped power cords in/out of the Primaluna.  I only had an old Signal Cable and a Raymond Audio power cord in house as extras, but had the chance to try a new TWL prototype.  All I can say is WOW!  The TWL cord added space, air and a wider/deeper soundstage.  Very detailed, but maybe a little too much for me.  I have to try the current model TWL cord to see if that's a better fit to my ears.  (Side note: I was told that the prototype TWL cord is designed for extra detail.)

After my buddies left, I finally put my system back together in my rack only to find out I can't fit the Primaluna and the Moscode 600 in it!   I made an executive decision and put the Moscode on an isolation base on the floor to the right of my rack and put the Primaluna in the rack.  (Thank God that the wife hasn't noticed yet! )  The good news is that I no longer have an issue with my right speaker cable being stretched too tight for comfort.

Thanks for the visit gentlemen!  Your extra ears helped to prove that I wasn't hearing an improvement because it was a new piece of equipment and my mind automatically wanted it to be an improvement.  And... it wasn't a "have to squint your ears" type of difference either!

SN

[GT Audio Works]

I had the pleasure of two of my audio buddies stopping by for a listen last night.  Didn't bother with the Dayton Bi-amp set up because my mind was made up on that already from last weeks evaluation.

We instead focused on the Primaluna pre vs. the Dodd pre. My guests confirmed what I thought was a bigger than possible improvement with the Primaluna in my system.  (I guess the Dodd is going up for sale soon!)

Also swapped power cords in/out of the Primaluna.  I only had an old Signal Cable and a Raymond Audio power cord in house as extras, but had the chance to try a new TWL prototype.  All I can say is WOW!  The TWL cord added space, air and a wider/deeper soundstage.  Very detailed, but maybe a little too much for me.  I have to try the current model TWL cord to see if that's a better fit to my ears.  (Side note: I was told that the prototype TWL cord is designed for extra detail.)

After my buddies left, I finally put my system back together in my rack only to find out I can't fit the Primaluna and the Moscode 600 in it!   I made an executive decision and put the Moscode on an isolation base on the floor to the right of my rack and put the Primaluna in the rack.  (Thank God that the wife hasn't noticed yet! )  The good news is that I no longer have an issue with my right speaker cable being stretched too tight for comfort.

Thanks for the visit gentlemen!  Your extra ears helped to prove that I wasn't hearing an improvement because it was a new piece of equipment and my mind automatically wanted it to be an improvement.  And... it wasn't a "have to squint your ears" type of difference either!

SN

Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

[Emil]

Bill

When you can, try a pair of these in the Primaluna.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/philips-5r4gys-made-in-holland/

I picked up a pair for my amps. Didn't know a rectifier tube can make such a difference 

[StereoNut]

Bill

When you can, try a pair of these in the Primaluna.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/philips-5r4gys-made-in-holland/

I picked up a pair for my amps. Didn't know a rectifier tube can make such a difference 

I have a pair. Oddly, I like the stock Primaluna tubes better!  The Philips are super detailed, but a bit too much for my taste

Bill

[StereoNut]

]Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

Hi Greg

I have the less expensive model Primaluna Prologue Premium pre and as you can see in my other posts here, I'm loving it.  As far as Bi-amping goes, I have abandoned the idea unless i trip over a can't pass up deal on another Moscode 600 amp.

Bill

P.S. - Say hello to Juliet.  (It is Juliet - right!?!)

[Triode Pete]

Bill

When you can, try a pair of these in the Primaluna.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/philips-5r4gys-made-in-holland/

I picked up a pair for my amps. Didn't know a rectifier tube can make such a difference 

I personally would not change the TYPE of rectifier tube in the Primaluna preamp.

It calls for 5AR4 / GZ34, which has a 1.9A filament. The 5R4GY draws 2.0A... You should NEVER substitute a rectifier whose filament draws more current than the rectifier was designed for.... If the manufacturer stipulates a 5AR4 / GZ34, do not use a 5Y3, 5U4, U5x or a CV378!

The parameters of the two rectifiers are a bit different too... For the 5AR4 / GZ34, PIV Max is 1500V, Iout = 250mA, DC forward drop = 30v.... For the 5R4GY, PIV Max is 2800V, Iout = 250mA, DC forward drop = 67v

IMHO, if Bill wants to upgrade his rectifiers, go "in-kind" with the super Mullard's (metal base) or similar ones from Telefunken & Philips... Also, if you can get 1960's era GE & Sylvania, get those. Those are re-branded Mullard's! In 1969-1970, GE & Sylvania started producing their own (not as good).

I have Mullard GZ34's in all my amps and they sound wonderful & are very rugged and probably will be in there for a lifetime...

My $0.02,
Pete

[Emil]

I hear ya, Pete.

I suggested them because tube guru Kevin Deal of Upscale Audio is suggesting them for the Primaluna, which he sells.

[GT Audio Works]

]Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

Hi Greg

I have the less expensive model Primaluna Prologue Premium pre and as you can see in my other posts here, I'm loving it.  As far as Bi-amping goes, I have abandoned the idea unless i trip over a can't pass up deal on another Moscode 600 amp.

Bill

P.S. - Say hello to Juliet.  (It is Juliet - right!?!)

Hi Bill,
Juliette says hi...
Regarding your bi-amping issue with the VR4 speakers....
I  am unfamiliar with the VS speakers...Do they have a crossover box separate from the main speaker ??

[StereoNut]

]Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

Hi Greg

I have the less expensive model Primaluna Prologue Premium pre and as you can see in my other posts here, I'm loving it.  As far as Bi-amping goes, I have abandoned the idea unless i trip over a can't pass up deal on another Moscode 600 amp.

Bill

P.S. - Say hello to Juliet.  (It is Juliet - right!?!)

Hi Bill,
Juliette says hi...
Regarding your bi-amping issue with the VR4 speakers....
I  am unfamiliar with the VS speakers...Do they have a crossover box separate from the main speaker ??

First off, give this "te" to your wife... I left them off the end of her name! 

Secondly, the Vons have their crossovers inside the cabinets.

Bill

[GT Audio Works]

]Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

Hi Greg

I have the less expensive model Primaluna Prologue Premium pre and as you can see in my other posts here, I'm loving it.  As far as Bi-amping goes, I have abandoned the idea unless i trip over a can't pass up deal on another Moscode 600 amp.

Bill

P.S. - Say hello to Juliet.  (It is Juliet - right!?!)

Hi Bill,
Juliette says hi...
Regarding your bi-amping issue with the VR4 speakers....
I  am unfamiliar with the VS speakers...Do they have a crossover box separate from the main speaker ??

First off, give this "te" to your wife... I left them off the end of her name! 

Secondly, the Vons have their crossovers inside the cabinets.

Bill

OK...So then you ran a subwoofer amp to the binding posts for the bass section on the back of the VR4's ??
You report hearing a too lean sound from the speakers?
The reason for this is,the Dayton bass amp has an electronic xover...But your speakers have a hard wired xover to the bass drivers in the cabinet... since you did not bypass this(I assume) you have 2 filters in series attenuating the bass output. Unless the Dayton amp has some way to bypass its internal xover to give you full range output you need a full range amp to power the bass section.  Greg

[jimbones]

]Hey bill,
What Primaluna pre do you have ?? I have the dialogue premium and am very happy with it.
I also am running active bass on my subs and mid bass drivers. I really like it better...the improvement in dynamics, noise floor, resolution, bass adjustability, and cleaner peak spls is quite good.   Greg

Hi Greg

I have the less expensive model Primaluna Prologue Premium pre and as you can see in my other posts here, I'm loving it.  As far as Bi-amping goes, I have abandoned the idea unless i trip over a can't pass up deal on another Moscode 600 amp.

Bill

P.S. - Say hello to Juliet.  (It is Juliet - right!?!)

Hi Bill,
Juliette says hi...
Regarding your bi-amping issue with the VR4 speakers....
I  am unfamiliar with the VS speakers...Do they have a crossover box separate from the main speaker ??

First off, give this "te" to your wife... I left them off the end of her name! 

Secondly, the Vons have their crossovers inside the cabinets.

Bill

OK...So then you ran a subwoofer amp to the binding posts for the bass section on the back of the VR4's ??
You report hearing a too lean sound from the speakers?
The reason for this is,the Dayton bass amp has an electronic xover...But your speakers have a hard wired xover to the bass drivers in the cabinet... since you did not bypass this(I assume) you have 2 filters in series attenuating the bass output. Unless the Dayton amp has some way to bypass its internal xover to give you full range output you need a full range amp to power the bass section.  Greg

Great point Greg. When Bill told us he tried the bi-amp I assumed that he bypassed the passive XO. Yep, cant go xo into xo.   

[GT Audio Works]

He would have to jump around the xover in the VR cabinet, I doubt he would consider such an undertaking. I would not nor do I think Albert VS would recommend it.
It would surely screw up the balance intended by the designer.
I use 2 active bass amps per channel for the sub and mid bass drivers in my speaker, but they rely on the electronic xover. I find this arrangement advantageous for ultimate dynamics, resolution, clean peak spls, and the ability to dial in the sound in many rooms.
If Bill wants to try active bass he should try to get ahold of some inexpensive class D amps, but he would still need to match levels with his Moscode. Another Moscode would be great, but the cost I imagine would be a consideration.

[StereoNut]

Thanks, Jim & Greg.  I just PM'd you Greg without realizing you had posted more info.  Part of my message was indeed that... "find another Moscode 600"

Right now, I've had enough monkeying around with things.  Gonna chill a bit and just listen to music.  System really does sound better with just the Moscode vs. my back-asswards attempt at Bi-amping.

Talk soon!
Bill