speaker cables

[DaveC]

The Furuz stuff looks great for the price!

Telerium copper is fairly soft, so the tensioned tube design may not last forever but with care should provide good performance vs more common brass connectors of the same design.

A pure copper locking banana is even better but a lot more cash, spades are the best value for a good quality connector imo.

[williewonka]

Well - here's something to continue the Speaker Cable discussion thread...

I have just finished reviewing the KLE Innovations Essence gZero2 speaker cables from KLE Innovations.

http://www.image99.net/blog/files/fac35e44c003d559714cdd73d86febf9-51.html

Even though these cables are very skinny they outperformed my  Van den Hul d-352 cables with the Furez bananas and by a considerable margin.

They do take a bit of burning in,  >300 hours, but it is worth the wait.

A couple of caveats...
- the longest cable they suggest is 4 meters and the shortest made is 2 meter, with the ideal length being 3 meters - like those I reviewed - and then purchased
- to ensure optimum performance, that the audio systems Speaker impedance, especially the average, needs to be >3ohms and that the Speaker Sensitivity needs to be >83db

Other than that, the cables provide across the board clarity and dynamics. They provided a deeper bass response and a warmer and fuller overall tone with a significantly deeper image than the D-352 

Just as  general comment - I have been playing around with cables for about 4 years and without a doubt the KLE Innovations product range is extremely good. The Harmony RCA Plug range all beat Keith Louis' previous best the Eichmann Silver Bullet RCA by a considerable margin and his cables are definitely performance oriented.

Just google KLE Innovations for complete details

Their current available products seem to be geared for the more "modestly priced" systems - my estimate <$30k, but their Balanced IC's are on the drawing board and more upmarket speaker cables are on their way also.

My System definitely falls into that range ...

NAIM 5i Integrated amp
Gershman Acoustics Sonogram Speakers
Schiit Bifrost DAC - digital input streamed from an iMAC
Simaudio Moon LP5.3 phono stage
Stager Silver Solids IC with Silver Harmony RCA
KLE Innovations Essence gZero3 IC
KLE Innovations Essence gZero2 Speaker Cables
Denon DL 103 Cartridge (mod) on Audiomods arm on Custom TT
Power Cables - DIY Braided Furutech conductors with Sonar Quest IEC.Mains connectors (silver plated copper)

MSRP around $12k

But with the KLEI products it performs way above its price point

Chat Later

[DaveC]

Nevermind, probably better to keep my mouth shut.   

[williewonka]

Nevermind, probably better to keep my mouth shut.   

DaveC - speak up - enlighten us

[tmazz]

....... Triode Pete and the power cables he makes. Real nice stuff. Should make for some nice discussions. Thanks

and his speaker cables, and his new interconnect cables..........

[DaveC]

Nevermind, probably better to keep my mouth shut.   

DaveC - speak up - enlighten us

I really don't have anything to say, was just making fun of their marketing-speak... stuff like this is just... well, I will let you decide:

"In stark contrast to these approaches KL’s research has produced a proprietary Ground Zero Circuit (gZero™) which actively works to maintain a zero voltage state across the ground, protecting the signal conductor from ground induced capacitive and inductive reactance [sic]."

I'm not going to critique it specifically, but I will say that I HATE this kind of approach to marketing. Making up names for stuff, blatant lies (there is no active circuitry), etc.. it makes this entire industry look bad. Here's the entire link, it is amusing but very painful to read:

http://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/essence-gzero-sc/

The product may be amazing, but the way it is promoted is old-school snake-oil.

Edit... I will say I have been guilty of some hyperbole too and everyone should be excited about their product and believe it is the best... but the KLE marketing speak is way over the top. This is an issue with a lot of audio products and a personal pet-peeve of mine, really not a big deal... I do think a lot of folks would be better off having their promotional material looked over by friends and even professionals to make sure the writing is done in a reasonable and professional manner. I think many times engineering information is taken by marketing folks and the end result is a big mess.

[tmazz]

I think many times engineering information is taken by marketing folks and the end result is a big mess.

+1

[williewonka]

DaveC - I conveyed a similar sentiment back to them regarding when I first read their web site regarding  the term "Active/Passive circuitry", but, in the end,  it's all in the individual's interpretation.

Their gZero technology (gotta call it something when patenting it) makes a pretty significant contribution to performance and clarity and heir products do perform extremely well!

That and - it's no worse than many other companies out there.

BTW - you have some very nice looking products yourself.

It's nice to see someone thinking outside the box re: Cable Architecture.

I'm a fan of your style of "Braided Archtecture"(?) they perform so much better than conventional wire.

(if braided is the wrong term please enlighten me - thanks)

Anyhow - look forward to chatting some more 

[DaveC]

Gzero reads a lot like these guys, but who knows, I'm not going to buy a set just to rip them apart. 

http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/EVS_Ground_Enhancers.html

It's also true MANY companies are guilty of this type of marketing, I think we would be better off with less hyperbole and more factual information that will help a buyer decide if it's the right product for them. If the patent is applied for they can be more forthcoming in giving details that are not completely made-up. Personally, if I read marketing-tech like that there is NO chance I will buy even if Jesus himself is selling.

I do disagree about the definitions of active and passive being up to personal interpretation, those terms are well defined and we can't just redefine words while maintaining any sort of credibility.

Thanks for the nice words on my cables. The braided wire is Neotech's take on a litz-type design, which is intended to minimize skin effect at radio frequencies. Calculations may tell you that you are good up to ~24g wire with audio frequencies but I find better clarity and detail with their litz wire vs conventional upocc copper wire. The 14 gauge wire is my OEM product while 24, 22 and 20 are available to the public. The signal wire I use in the D4 IC is unique too, it is a improved version of the Neotech upocc silver/gold alloy wire and is also my OEM product. I make both my OEM wires available by the foot for the DIY community at the same prices Neotech would charge.

[rollo]

Nevermind, probably better to keep my mouth shut.   

  Your learning. 



charles

[Hugh]

hahaha.

Nevermind, probably better to keep my mouth shut.   

  Your learning. 



charles

[jimbones]

Well I pulled the trigger on a set of Silver Cabledynes. They ship today and have a 40 trial after the ship date. I figure that gives me 37 days 

The purchase was based in a demo of Bill's Silver QED's so I figured on getting a cable for a  US based supplier. I like the design philosphy and the price was reasonable for what you get as they are a boutique supplier and supposedly go out of their way for their customers. I just hope I like them. I figure I should know with a few days if i am sticking with them. Wish me luck!

[jimbones]

Dave,

Agreed and already factored in. I assumed as much. However, I don't believe the QED cable I demoed was UPOCC or ultra pure silver. It was silver over copper and it still bested my cable. So my hope is that even if this silver is not of the purity of the "real deal" manufacturers it would out perform my cables and still save some coin. If i don't like it it goes back.

Jim, sent you a PM...

Cabledyne is one of many cable companies who sell fake Chinese upocc/single crystal wire. The prices are ridiculously low, there is no way that wire could be produced using the OCC process.


Just so everyone knows, OCC process has been licensed to 3 companies worldwide, and if the product info says "single crystal" without mentioning "OCC" or "Ohno Continuous Cast", then it is most likely a fake as the OCC claim is copyrighted internationally.

Neotech has tried to get these fly-by-night Chinese companies shut down with little to no effect.

Even worse, some companies built their reputation using Neotech wire, then switched to the fake Chinese stuff, effectively duping their customers into buying an inferior product while keeping prices high. caughTaraLabscaugh...

[jimbones]

hmmmm well, I can't prove them to be liars and thieves. I can suspect all I want. Purchases are made for a variety of reasons. Now I am not sure if YOU can prove them to be thieves.

Regarding the legit companies: they should have a way of identifying the cable fabricators that use their branded wire. Like letting cable manufacturers allow them to use a recognizable symbol or logo that readily identified that they are using a certified product.

Like you said if it was silver wire from one of the companies you mention the cables would have been twice the price and out of reach for me.

[tmazz]

Dave I am coming late to this game, but I looked at the cabledyne web site and I cannot see where they are coming off as liars and theives, nor do I see how you can call these cables fakes. I may have missed it, but at no place in the site do I see them  making any claim of using neotech wire , or that their product used an OCC wire. What they do say  is that their cables use a "Continuous Directional Solidification process (similar to OCC)".

Saying that their wire is made using a process that is similar to OCC is very different than saying that it uses neotech wire. I can say that a $1200 tube amp is "similar" to a $25,000 Audio Research amp because the both use pentode tubes but I don't think that many of us would think they were the same in either build or sound quality. 

Claiming that something is similar to another item is simply a matter of opinion (similar too what extent?) At worst he can be accused of over estimating the sq of the products he is trying to sell (which is again still only a matter of opinion), or just using marketing technobable and weaselspeak, but if every manufacturer ()or audio reviewer) who ever did that was run out of business, I an afraid that we would all be listening to Sony Walkmen. 

No if a manufacturer sent out review samples using one type of wire and then sold the allegedly same product to the general public using another, I agree, that would be dishonest. But I don
't see that from his web site.

Telling a lie has a very specific legal definition and unless Cabledyne specifically claims that they are selling you a cable made with genuine OCC wire and then sells products that do not there is no basis for calling them liars and thieves. Saying someing is similar to is just not the same as  saying it is. Which is I assume why Neotech has not had any success at shutting them down. (remember back in the 60s when other copiers companies started marketing their machines as "Just as good as a Xerox. Xerox did not like it one bit, but there was nothing they could do about it either.)

Not they may be making a cheap product that does not sound anywhere as good as their claim of "similar to OCC" might lead a potential customer to believe, but that is simply marketing oversell, not dishonesty and thievery. It is up to the consumer to listen to the cables and decide if a process that is similar to OCC  leads to a level of sound quality that is on par with what one gets from real OCC products. Like everything else in this hobby, it is buyer beware.