Digital Source Choices...???

[etcarroll]

Just be sure to backup the hd(s) with music.

I just lost a 1TB drive in my server, hope nothing good on it.

[mdconnelly]

FWIW, Logitech Squeezebox (Media Server) scan time to read ripped and tagged flac files has been quite improved... definitely under a minute to add a couple new albums and that's on a fairly old PC server (running Win 7).   Of course, rescanning your entire collection can take quite a while, but I rarely find a need to do so anymore.  A few years back, I found myself rescanning my entire library routinely to resolve issues, but that's a thing of the past.

Where the Squeezebox Touch has not lived up to the hype is to operate standalone without the need to have Media Server installed separately (formerly known as a SqueezeCenter among other names).  While technically, you should be able to just hang your music drive off the Touch, it's simply underpowered for that and creates all sorts of headaches when you try (and I've tried .  Why Logitech has not issued a Touch II that addresses this is anyone's guess.

I keep waiting for someone (even Logitech) to come along with a far better music streaming solution.  There are still few such products on the market (or at least, that I'm aware of) - Squeezebox & Sonos probably being the most successful products.

It would be fascinating to do a comparison of CD, Squeezebox, Sonos and PC-based playback sometime. 

[richidoo]

It would be fascinating to do a comparison of CD, Squeezebox, Sonos and PC-based playback sometime. 

Welcome back Mike!

Yes it would be interesting. We could set them all up ahead of time and play same track on each. Although Sonos and Touch are constants the CDP and the PC setup are variable, but you have one of the best CDPs and we can probably create a pretty stout PC player on a SSD laptop or something like that. 

It would also be interesting to compare various Windows software media players for sound quality. Like foobar v. JRiver, etc.

[Carlman]

I've done a comparison with traditional cd (Pioneer DVD player) and audio PC running Foobar to the same DAC and compared.  It was hands-down better on the PC.  It shouldn't have been.. But it was.

I have compared the SB3 to the audio PC also and the PC beat it.

To make things worse, I've compared USB->DAC to USB->SPDIF->DAC and the latter was better. sigh.  How is this possible, why?

So, be careful what you wish for in comparisons... things sound better that technically shouldn't and you leave scratching your head....

I HIGHLY encourage anyone to do some comparisons on their own within their system... so you know what's changing and are used to the sound... Doing this alone is easier and more objective (to me) than doing it in a group.  I'd love to hear other people's results when comparing transports or even connection types in the PC chain.  I've been doing computer audio for over 5 years now and I feel like it's still pretty new... but it's out of its infancy.  Things are making leaps forward now.

I'm psyched about the possibility of the Voyage MPD Linux build on a PC Engines tiny computer.. If I can ever figure out how to configure it, I look forward to hearing it... and comparing it to my audio PC.  I would LOVE to get rid of my monitor and keyboard in the sound room... and go 100% silent.

-C

[rollo]

   Would not just a Mac laptop with remote do the trick as the source ? Is the standard drive acceptable or would M2Tech  or ASIO be better ?  Why Sonos or other device ?
   Then just a USB DAC of choice ? How about a Korg digital recorder instead ?
    Has anyone compared a say CEC or equal dedicated transport against the computer using a DAC ?



charles

[richidoo]

   Would not just a Mac laptop with remote do the trick as the source ? Is the standard drive acceptable or would M2Tech  or ASIO be better ?  Why Sonos or other device ?
   Then just a USB DAC of choice ? How about a Korg digital recorder instead ?
    Has anyone compared a say CEC or equal dedicated transport against the computer using a DAC ?
charles

Yes, a Mac laptop would work fine. ASIO is a driver for windows sound. HiFace has a different driver for Mac. Mac native audio layer is pretty good. Just stay away from iTunes, it really fucks up the sound. I don't know of other free media players for Mac, but I'm sure someone offers one. Ayre?
http://www.anedio.com/index.php/article/usb_osx

http://www.channld.com/puremusic/ is an excellent player for Mac, but it's not free. It uses iTunes library database, but has a proprietary clean high resolution audio driver. Also 32 bit digital volume control and linear phase subwoofer digital crossover. 

Comparing optical to computer source is difficult, as Carl describes above. Computer is so complicated with changing drivers, software revs, and varying hardware you can't really make a universal judgement. But I agree, it is fun to compare and learn. On Squeezebox 3 I was able to hear the difference between flac and wav files. Mathematically there is no difference, but the analog pathway out of the processor is different, with God knows how bad the timing is for the SB3 databuss. Probably worse for Sonos. Probably better for most PCs. But the bits are identical. So many variables. It's just like PC power supply matters, and more intuitively, digital ICs matter. Bits ain't bits.

[BobM]

Campy,

Like you said before, "we all have sizeable CD collections...". That being said I believe in having a good CD player to play them, since they aren't going anywhere and I will keep using and adding to them (especially using Alisweb library borrowed CD's).

However, if I were to buy a CD player today I would make sure I had one that also allowed direct input to the DAC section so I could try out computer audio when it becomes easier to use and more standardized. It is getting there, so there is a need to future proof yourself to some degree.

[mdconnelly]

...
However, if I were to buy a CD player today I would make sure I had one that also allowed direct input to the DAC section so I could try out computer audio when it becomes easier to use and more standardized. It is getting there, so there is a need to future proof yourself to some degree.

Agreed!  Unless you're totally committed to spinning vinyl, any audio investment today needs to include a good DAC - either standalone or integrated and input-accessible in your CD player (or preamp or other digital playback component).   

I also have a sizable investment in CDs so don't really see selling my CD player anytime soon, but it is now used about the same amount as my turntable... probably 80% of all my listening these days happens via my Squeezebox.  15% via CDs, 5% via vinyl.  I'm not sure I'm happy with that ratio, but it is what it is.  I keep thinking that when I retire, I'll have far more time to enjoy the vinyl... we'll see.

[rollo]

   Would not just a Mac laptop with remote do the trick as the source ? Is the standard drive acceptable or would M2Tech  or ASIO be better ?  Why Sonos or other device ?
   Then just a USB DAC of choice ? How about a Korg digital recorder instead ?
    Has anyone compared a say CEC or equal dedicated transport against the computer using a DAC ?
charles

Yes, a Mac laptop would work fine. ASIO is a driver for windows sound. HiFace has a different driver for Mac. Mac native audio layer is pretty good. Just stay away from iTunes, it really fucks up the sound. I don't know of other free media players for Mac, but I'm sure someone offers one. Ayre?
http://www.anedio.com/index.php/article/usb_osx

http://www.channld.com/puremusic/ is an excellent player for Mac, but it's not free. It uses iTunes library database, but has a proprietary clean high resolution audio driver. Also 32 bit digital volume control and linear phase subwoofer digital crossover. 

Comparing optical to computer source is difficult, as Carl describes above. Computer is so complicated with changing drivers, software revs, and varying hardware you can't really make a universal judgement. But I agree, it is fun to compare and learn. On Squeezebox 3 I was able to hear the difference between flac and wav files. Mathematically there is no difference, but the analog pathway out of the processor is different, with God knows how bad the timing is for the SB3 databuss. Probably worse for Sonos. Probably better for most PCs. But the bits are identical. So many variables. It's just like PC power supply matters, and more intuitively, digital ICs matter. Bits ain't bits.

  Thanks Rich. Looking to make the plunge this week for the laptop.


charles

[richidoo]

  Thanks Rich. Looking to make the plunge this week for the laptop.

Great! It'll be a bit of an adventure and some good learning. Keep your chin up, be patient and within a month you'll have it dialed in perfectly.  Check out PureMusic, I think that's a good player for Macs. I don't know much about macs, but there are some here who do, and more on AC. 

[mfsoa]

Is there really any reason to pick a Mac over a non-Mac, unless you like spending more $$ than you need to?

I (and wifey) just can't seem to get Apple stuff to work right - just too Windows indoctrinated I guess.

I'm still smarting from an Ipod experience years ago when I wanted to put music from my PC onto my kid's Ipod that had been "attached" to another PC already. But Apple was going to make me delete all the content in the Ipad first because "We are Apple, and we will tell you what music you may or may not put on your Ipod".

Ever since then I've wanted to keep Apple as far away from my music experience as possible.

[rollo]

Is there really any reason to pick a Mac over a non-Mac, unless you like spending more $$ than you need to?

I (and wifey) just can't seem to get Apple stuff to work right - just too Windows indoctrinated I guess.

I'm still smarting from an Ipod experience years ago when I wanted to put music from my PC onto my kid's Ipod that had been "attached" to another PC already. But Apple was going to make me delete all the content in the Ipad first because "We are Apple, and we will tell you what music you may or may not put on your Ipod".

Ever since then I've wanted to keep Apple as far away from my music experience as possible.

   Good question Mike. I have told by the computer Gurus that Macs just sound better. I cannot vouch for gaga.
    If one uses say a SS hardrive to play from directly does the Manf. or type of computer matter at all.
    Would a Lynux or however you spell it based on windows using the SS hardrive offer any advantages ??
    The Manf. of the PDX reccos Mac. An OEM  M2tech hiface USB  board is built  in. I guess any brand computer that can use the driver would be sufficeint.


charles

[Bob in St. Louis]

Not sure if you've made your buying decisions yet, but I recently "shelved" my modded SB3 and started using a PC server. Check out a "Zotac Zbox" (I got mine from TigerDirect). It's a compact little PC, with a VERY quite internal fan, perfect for rack mount. They're so small, they also can me mounted on the back of a PC flat screen monitor.

For storage, I've got a (fanless) 2TB Western Digital USB "Passport" drive.

As the "remote control", I'm using a Samsung Galaxy 10.0 Tablet and J. River Media as the interface.
Lotsa fun! 

Hope that helps,
Bob

[richidoo]

PC can have just as good sound as Mac. Mac OSX operating system is nice, but so is Win7. Using ASIO driver, SQ is excellent from PC, but it depends on the output hardware. If you have M2tech on the input of your dac the computer choice is less important.

A PC is much less money. A HTPC type computer is adequate for playing music.

Mac is cool like Obama, so you will feel hip and young.

[BobM]

Apple stuff is very expensive. You are paying a lot for the image. You can run Windows software on a MAC, but you need to upgrade to the operating system that allows this and run a "patch" that is not fully supported by Apple. Also more expensive, of course.

Windows 7 is truly a big leap forward for non-Apple PC's. My daughter, a digital art student, uses both MAC's and Windows 7 hardware at school. She prefers Windows 7 over MAC's for art, because anything you can do on a MAC you can now do on Windows. All the support is there and the software companies fully support it now.

We are becoming more platform independent as far as usability goes, and the security in Windows 7 is far better than earlier Windows platforms were, but you still need a firewall and anti-virus.