Author Topic: Digital Source Choices...???  (Read 18724 times)

Offline StereoNut

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Digital Source Choices...???
« on: May 02, 2012, 02:04:30 PM »
Considering an earlier thread here on AN regarding the impending demise of CD's, what direction would you take in replacing your current digital source set-up and why?

 • CD Player
 • Transport & DAC
 • Computer Based

Please keep in mind that I (like many of you) own a reasonably good sized CD collection already.  I'd also like to keep the options under the $1,500.00 mark, if possible?

Ideas/suggestions?

P.S. - Admins: if this needs to be posted elsewhere, please move it.  Thanks! - SN
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Offline mfsoa

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 03:01:47 PM »
IMO you can't be a music lover and ignore what internet radio has to offer, so my vote goes for #3 on your list.

Since that includes a dac too (usually), you can have your transport or cd player to spin the silver things, covering #s 1 and 2 as well.

-Mike

Offline StereoNut

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 05:24:55 AM »
Thanks, Mike.  As far as a computer based front end goes, I'll need to tap into everyone's expertise here.  I really don't know what's needed to set-up my system like this. :?   I guess that I'm just an "old school audiofool" that can't imagine a computer nestled into his audio rack for a digital source. :roll:  Geez, just when I thought the WAF couldn't get any tougher! :shock:

At the same time, I don't want to "re-invent the wheel" here.  If there's an earlier thread that gives these specifics, please post it and I will pursue the computer audio part of the topic further from there.

SN
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

Offline Carlman

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 07:15:03 AM »
I've been doing computer audio so long I can't imagine going in another direction... just a simpler, easier solution rather than a big PC and monitor...
I'm working on something now that might just be the ticket... Look up Voyager MPS and the little Ubuntu player boxes out there... Big learning curve but once it's setup, it's done... and you can control your music from a smart phone or tablet.

I still would like a nice cd transport for the occasional convenience if someone brings a cd over... I don't like/want/need to rip every cd that comes into my house... then have to delete it later.  The SQ has to be up to snuff with the PC, though... which means I need a pretty nice transport, which is tough to find lately.

I'd work in this order:
External DAC if you don't have one.  I would listen to a few in your system. 
Then choose transport type.

Some CD players that sound awesome also have digital (sometimes analog) inputs also, and can be your preamp.

The only CD player I'd buy is a BAT VK-5DSE ($5,500 msrp).

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline machinehead

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 07:35:32 AM »
My setup is Raid 5, 6TB for music. to desktop computer towifi to squeezebox touch to external DAC. You could just go laptop to DAC to rest of the system. You should use some kind of a Raid server with parity to protect all the music that you put on the system. Eventually a hard drive will fail.
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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 07:55:49 AM »
I've been a big Squeezebox fan for quite sometime.  I love the fact that I can stream to three different rooms/systems, synced when needed, and stream to my iPhone or iPad remotely using the iPeng app.  The iPeng interface is very slick.

I'm currently using a Squeezebox Touch on my main rig.  While it does not sound quite as good as my Oracle CD transport, it's pretty damn good for the $300 investment.  (I am using an external DAC with it).

But because the Touch is not quite "the best", I'm hesitant to fully recommend it as an optimal CD transport replacement.  I have heard PC-based systems (Carl's for one) that I think probably do sound just as good or better than the best transports out there.

Whether I stick with the Touch, switch to a PC-based setup, or buy something totally different, it's not really a big issue.  For me, the biggest commitment was just taking the time to rip and tag all of my CDs to flac.  A big project but well worth the effort.  Once done, you can choose any number of solutions to play the music without the risk of having to re-rip for a different player.

FWIW, I have found myself purchasing new music from HDTracks or similar sites rather than buying the same music on CD, just so I could get it in higher res, 24 bit resolution where available.
 

Offline richidoo

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 08:20:16 AM »
Sonos Connect is $350 and requires no additional computer to use it. Use smart phone, iPad or a computer to control it, or buy the dedicated Sonos wireless controller. You rip your music onto a network attached storage server (DLink DNS-320 + extra drive $300.) If you already have a wireless router then your network is adequate to run a network player. So that's $750. I have happily run this setup for about 4 years. Sonos is easy, reliable and fast. It requires an external DAC for good SQ, but you'll need that for any computer audio setup, or even CD player, to achieve high end sound quality.

A network player is good enough for me, but there are some limitations. A real computer in your system adds the ability to play high resolution music files. I find these interesting sonic treats, but unnecessary to enjoy music. If you do hifi to enjoy the illusion of realism from your system, then hirez will be valuable to you. If you trance into the music then hirez is irrelevant, imo. A computer can also do real time processing of the audio stream, like EQ, effects, room correction, crossover, etc. Although few audiophiles go this route, there is massive potential there and I think will become an important part of the sport in the coming years. A real computer can also run a more sophisticated control software than those running on Squeezebox or Sonos. JRiver or foobar offer more advanced functions. 

Computer audio can be a little intimidating at first, but it's really not too bad. You have hundreds of years of combined experience on AN to help you, so it will be a relatively painless (and hilarious) process to get up to speed.

One drawback of the media players like Sonos and Squeezebox is that you can't play a CD until after you rip it (convert the CD into files on the network.) Furthermore, the network players maintain their own library databases, and can only play music that is in their database. New music added to the hard drive remains invisible to the player until the database is updated (scanned.) Sonos does this in about 20 seconds. Logitech server (running on a separate computer) takes longer, but the speed has improved a lot since 5 years ago when it took overnight for large library. I keep an old universal player in the rack for playing CDs, but I only use it for G2Gs when people want to play their CDs at the meet.

Other drawbacks are you can't read liner notes, no vinyl rituals, but you can make up new rituals. ;)  This is a more complex system than vinyl or CDP. You have to expect occasional computer problems, network problems, player problems, whatever. Depending on what hardware you buy the level of frustration can vary, but there is always some. The nicad batteries of my Sonos controller are going dead, so I need to crack it open and repair, if i can. Sonos did a major upgrade to the PC control software and it is slightly flakey, won't shut down quickly about 10% of the time. Easy to ignore, but still minor irritation. Occasionally the network connection goes down, hard drives fail in the NAS, etc. Library backup is something to think about.

Being able to program a playlist of a few hours of music and then just sitting there in a state of deep meditation while one perfect track after another comes at you is a great advantage. Listening to Beethoven's 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 symphonies in a row is a favorite. No more hunting for a CD. Although I still hunt for them when I want to take them to someone else's system.

Like Mike said, playing internet radio and Pandora are a big advantage over the traditional library. You will discover lots of new music.

Offline Emil

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2012, 08:35:54 AM »
Computer audio is just a fad like the 8-track

Seriously, what about sound quality? At least as good as CD?
What about the cost of music? I know Pandora is free but what about sound quality?
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 08:40:31 AM »
Wow!  Thanks for all of the ideas/suggestions.  I can see that this is going to be a painstaking task to get things up and running!  I guess it's gonna be a matter of me just gathering up enough courage to make this "leap" into the sonic future!  :shock:
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

• Primaluna Dialogue Tube Pre-Amp
• N.Y.A.L. Moscode 600 Amp
• Bolder/EE Minimax DAC
• Cambridge D-500SE CDP
• Von Schweikert 2012 Mod.VR-4 Gen.III speakers
• VPI Prime/Soundsmith MMP3/DV20x2H
• T.W.L

djdube525

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2012, 08:55:40 AM »
Computer audio is just a fad like the 8-track

Seriously, what about sound quality? At least as good as CD?
What about the cost of music? I know Pandora is free but what about sound quality?

You can certainly do the free version of Pandora... their pay for version (not super spendy) is a little better quality, no commercials. Pandora is nice in terms of it finding out new/similar tunes for you...

If looking to go that route, Spotify is a "better" solution (higher bit rates, crazy big selection) for the pay for version.

Better is subjective I know... just in terms of SQ and quality it's pretty nice. Then there are all the high bit rate Internet Radio stations... There's quite a bit out there.

Dave

Offline richidoo

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2012, 08:56:41 AM »
Computer audio is just a fad like the 8-track

Seriously, what about sound quality? At least as good as CD?
What about the cost of music? I know Pandora is free but what about sound quality?

Potentially better than CD because ripping a file removes the CD error correction, and playing from RAM memory like JRiver can do supposedly increases sound quality further. But there are layers of hardware and software that can still screw it up again.

Sound quality of Pandora is adequate to listen to the music. It is not good enough for audiophile listening. But finding new music is worth the SQ sacrifice. If I hear something great supposedly I would buy it on CD, but I have done that only a couple times, and it was for the music, not the sound quality. I just wanted to hear it more often than Pandora plays it. Spotify has higher bitrate? Some internet radio stations have 320kbps which is starting to sound OK, but that's  still only 25% of CD bitrate.

Pandora will increase the advertising as much and as quickly as listeners will tolerate. They are going public so the push for profit will have positive and negative effects. So far it has not been too annoying to me on the Sonos feed.

edit: dave beat me to it!

Offline Emil

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 10:07:18 AM »
I totally agree that the internet is a great source of new music but if the sound quality is not up to a least CD quality, I would pass for now IMHO. Moreover, what incentive would the likes of pandora have to offer hi-rez downloads? Extra money?, sure,but is the demand there?

So for Stereonut, i vote for Transport/dac option.
Many people are burning their discs to computer/ipods and selling there disc to local CD shops.
I've been having a field day picking up used CDs at the mall for cheap and more than willing to drop a few bucks on an artist I've never heard of. I would never have done that in the past and definitely not at $18.
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Offline Face

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 10:34:12 AM »
Computer audio is just a fad like the 8-track

Seriously, what about sound quality? At least as good as CD?
What about the cost of music? I know Pandora is free but what about sound quality?
Streaming, such as Pandora and Limewire, is only a small part of computer audio. 

Streaming is fine for background music, but not for critical listening(as already mentioned).

Emil, want your dollar to carry you even further?  Purchased used CD's and then sell them back after you're done ripping them to your computer.  ;)

Offline machinehead

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 11:01:48 AM »
I hope you are joking about 8-track silliness. I wouldn't go transport/DAC as it makes no sense. Just rip everything onto a HD, much easier, once you get the hang of it and you have access to CD quality + Listening to online stations if a fine way to learn about the new crap out there.
Its cool ndude.

djdube525

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Re: Digital Source Choices...???
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 11:52:43 AM »
I totally agree that the internet is a great source of new music but if the sound quality is not up to a least CD quality, I would pass for now IMHO. Moreover, what incentive would the likes of pandora have to offer hi-rez downloads? Extra money?, sure,but is the demand there?

In addition to the subscription fees, Pandora does offer the ability to purchase the content while you're listening (admittedly, I've never done it).

Another is learning a lot about you (musical tastes) and how that may transcend into purchasing decisions for other items. They probably make a lot of money from this. User affinity data is a hot area.

Dave