Amp, direct or conditioned?

[Carlman]

I have heard the small PS Audio 'power port' and have a receptacle of theirs... I have never been interested in owning their equipment...

[rlmacklin]

Last Monday I ordered a PS Audio Power Plant Premier (PPP) power regenerator from Walter Liederman of Underwood HiFi and received it on Wednesday.
Got it into the system on Wednesday night.
I initially set up with a Black Sand Silver Reference MkV power cord from Oyaide R1 wall outlet to the PPP, with all 3 power amps power coming out of the PPP.

Cycling through items available on the PPP display indicated some incoming voltage variation and also ~ 4.5-5.0% THD on incoming power; outgoing indicated rock steady 120 V at ~0.9-1.0% THD on regular sine wave setting and on down to 0.4-0.6% THD on multiwave setting, where system sounded better.

I listened to many of my test/reference CDs/SACDs/DVD-As over the intervening period and noted a "cleaner" sound with more details and ambience coming through.  I gave that configuration this long to familiarize myself with sound of my test/reference recordings with that setup.
Questions remaining include whether the dynamics have been noticeably adversely affected and whether the "cleaner" sound can be retained in undeteriorated form with a possible improvement in dynamics when the power amps go back to running straight from wall (or I may have to run through 2 of them through a non-ideal power strip and leave one on the power regenerator until I install my other Oyaide R1 duplex AC outlet on other side of the room and repostion some components and swap around some cords to enable all 3 power amps to actually run "straight from wall")

I will transfer the 2 "Klaus's special boards" Odyssey Mono Extreme SE amps from being fed by the power regenerator back to running off the wall or power strip this evening to begin next round of listening tests.

I will report back as things progress...

System:
 
new component: PS Audio Power Plant Premier connected to wall with either Black Sand Cable Silver Ref MkV or Black Sand Cable Violet.

Note: power cords on source and Modwright tubed linestage are Black Sand Cable Violets.

All power cords on power amps and remaining preamps are curerntly Black Sand Cable Silver Ref MkVs.

front l/r: stock Denon 3910 > white Grover S ICs > Modwright SWL 9.0 Signature with Bendix 6900s and cryoed Philips metal base GZ34 NOS 1957 > white Grover S ICs > Odyssey Mono Extreme SE amps with Klaus's "special boards" > Grover S bi-wire speaker cables > Polk Audio SRS-2 speakers (with custom SDA cable made from Grover UR speaker cable)

center: stock Denon 3910 > white Grover S IC > Sunfire Symphonic Reference preamp > white Grover S IC > Odyssey HT-3 power amp with capacitance upgrades > Grover SR speaker cable > Polk Audio Csi-5 speaker

l/r surround: stock Denon 3910 > white Grover S ICs > PS Audio PCA-2 preamp > white Grover S ICs > Odyssey HT-3 power amp with capacitance upgrade > Grover UR speaker cables > Polk Audio Fxi-5 speakers
"
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[richidoo]

Sounds good, I look forward to knowing how it works for you,  RL!  I'm a sucker for a good ad so I'm curious to know how it pans out in the real world!
Rich

[rlmacklin]

Taking the 2 Odyssey monos off the PS Audio Power Plant Premier (PPP) last evening brought back some dynamics/slam, so obviously currrent limiting (rated by PS Audio at 1500 W) was reached with the PPP when all three power amps were connected through the PPP.

Just for thoroughness, I will try with the 3-channel Odyssey taken off of the PPP and the 2 monos back on it , and with all three off when I can manage that (moving stuff to where one of my BSC power cords will reach another wall outlet.
Can try the first scenario (try with the 3-channel Odyssey taken off of the PPP and the 2 monos back on it) at lunch in a little while...

In short, it seems that direct to wall for power amps may be best way to go.

The PPP does provide cleaner regenerated power/helps sonics for sources and preamps in my system, but seems to not provide full dynamics/slam when all 3 of my power amps were connected to it.

I have PM'ed with John Cook of Black Sand who has recently tested this product and he also had current limiting results in testing some MacIntosh amps on the PPP...

[richidoo]

How bout when you run only one amp, maybe a low powered amp with very reserved appetite? I wonder if the generated voltage is regulated in some sense while drawing new waveform, and as such will not pass dynamic current peaks no matter how small. It may not be the large load of several large amps, but just the sound of the PPP in itself. Thanks for doing that testing, very cool!
Rich

[Phil]

Has anyone tried the conditioners from Audience?   I'm curious about trying the single unit with my amp, but the Butler probably doesn't need anything -- it is built like a tank by someone who comes from the professional audio world-- and I wouldn't want to give up any of the amp's transparency.

Digital sources are a different matter.  I have mine plugged into an equitech Q650 (very nice unit), made especially for source components.    Now that I don't use a preamp, the source is the only thing plugged into it.  Perhaps that seems a bit extreme, but there is nothing subtle about the reduction in noise, which really affects the mid-range and HF.

The Q650 has its own dedicated line as does the amp.   The dedicated lines are inexpensive compared to any audio component and to my ears they are the foundation for the rest of the system. 

[richidoo]

I agree about the dedicated lines. 1st step if you care about power quality, and like you said probably the cheapest power tweak, even compared to a good Black Sands PC. I've heard nothing but good things about equitech.

I tried the Running Springs conditioner when auditioning Monad on a quiet dedicated 20A line. I thought it ruined the sound. Made it wimpy and dull, lopped off a lot of top end, same with my Snappers. They are better straight in. Maybe because of the tubes?

Shane, with your new power outlets and dedicated lines, have you tried the Monads without power filter? Of course power quality wil vary in different neighborhoods too.

[bpape]

The best power conditioner I ever saw was years ago.  I knew a guy who had a machine shop in his garage with 3 phase 440.  He ran a surplus HUGE electrical motor with a flywheel on it which in turn drove a generator that put out nice clean pure 120v 60Hz.  No limits, plenty of juice, no noise in the lines at all.  REAL regenerated power.

Bryan

[djbnh]

Taking the 2 Odyssey monos off the PS Audio Power Plant Premier (PPP) last evening brought back some dynamics/slam, so obviously currrent limiting (rated by PS Audio at 1500 W) was reached with the PPP when all three power amps were connected through the PPP.

Just for thoroughness, I will try with the 3-channel Odyssey taken off of the PPP and the 2 monos back on it , and with all three off when I can manage that (moving stuff to where one of my BSC power cords will reach another wall outlet.
Can try the first scenario (try with the 3-channel Odyssey taken off of the PPP and the 2 monos back on it) at lunch in a little while...

In short, it seems that direct to wall for power amps may be best way to go.

Klaus Bunge of Odyssey recommends that his amps be driven directly from the wall.

[dangerbird]

+1,,Mr. K told me the same ,and they are on 24/7

[hometheaterdoc]

Shane, with your new power outlets and dedicated lines, have you tried the Monads without power filter? Of course power quality wil vary in different neighborhoods too.

The Butler Monads prefer straight juice....  things improved quite a bit when I moved the conditioner onto a dedicated line and left the monads plugged into it... which threw me for a loop, actually.... I guess the conditioner didn't have to work as hard to clean up the crap on the shared outlet? 

But the Monads using JPS Aluminata power cords into JPS receptacles wired with JPS romex back to a dedicated 20A circuit on the sub panel with no power conditioner in place is what you heard the other night.  It's really quite something, wasn't it?  I run a separate JPS 20A dedicated line for each Monad   This system has never even remotely sounded this good before.  It's been jaw dropping to listen. 

I still use the RSA conditioners on the digital components because it just sounds better and cleans up stuff better than straight into the wall.  But the Monads just want the juice straight from the wall.  I'd prefer to have some protection on the amps in case there were ever any lightning strikes (I lost a plasma to a lightning strike a couple months ago.  It took out $2K worth of internal electronics....which is more than what most new plasmas are going for nowadays...  The repair folks thought it was the coolest thing they'd seen in a while.  Guess what's now plugged into its own RSA power conditioner? hehehe)

[richidoo]

That's a happy TV!!  Yeah the system sounds awesome Shane. Congrats.

[RichardS]

With 'digital' amps, I've found power conditioning very helpful, with no dynamic compression that I can hear. I consider them indispensible. I've used the Haley and an Audio Magic Stealth (upgraded), a PS Audio and the new APC. The Haley is really nice in my system, a little smoother and quieter than the Stealth, but the Stealth is more lively, detailed and dynamic.

That said, the best conditioner I've used with my amps, and especially the Tact 2150, is the Foundation Research LC-2, which is an integrated PC and conditioner. It's made for use with amps, as long as they're not too power-hungry (Transistor Class AB Push-Pull rated to 240 wrms total, 140 for A/B tubes). It sort of splits the difference between the Stealth and Haley---effortless, smooth, quiet and dynamic. Worked nicely with my Aloia SS amp, too. Never tried it with tubes, though.

[rollo]

A 20 Amp dedicated line is all you need for your Amps. To date I have yet to find a conditioner that has improved the performance of my Amps. I loose dynamics every time. Use for CDP only IMO.

  rollo