New Year's thoughts for system upgrades?

[jazzcan]

It would seem that I'm also interested in a new DAC in 2012. 

I'm considering changing out my SSD Toshiba notebook so that I can use larger external drives (3TB).   This means that I probably won't be able to use my firewire connection (Focusrite Saffire) to my Meitner Bitstream, and will probably go to a USB format.   I've read wonderful things about the Stello U3, the Audiophellia2 and Offramp interfaces. 

But then I got to thinking that maybe I should just get a USB DAC.   Further reading led me to the possibility of a Metrum Octave coupled with one of the above mentioned interfaces.

So now, I'm wonderfully confused and content to continue reading reviews with the expectation of purchasing something early in the new year.

Rich

[Carlman]

Maybe the EE DAC can go on tour?  It's a really nice DAC and I'm enjoying it immensely... especially the amazing imaging.    If it happens, it'll be in the tours section here on AN.
-C

[bhobba]

If you had to compare the AMR sonically to something we've likely heard, whay do you think it sounds like most?

- Bryston DAC
- EE Minimax DAC
- Benchmark DAC
- other?

Some guys on Computer Audiophile compared the AMR to the PDX I have (except mine has the upgraded I/V resistors) and it was very close - with the AMR being preferred just by a whisker.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/AMR-DP777

Now if it is anything like the PDX I have compared it to the Bryston and Benchmark - the Benchmark - no contest - the Bryston - closer - but still no cigar - a touch cold and uninvolving while the Benchmark is very much along those lines.

The EE is a SABER DAC and I have never really warmed to them.  Owned a WFS for ages - just sold it the other day.  In my experience with SABER DAC's an Off-Ramp is pretty much mandatory - a much much better DAC when fed that way - but still slightly 'cold' in the lower treble - but without it really cold in the treble - like out of a freezer.

I have been listening to a lot of DAC's over the last year or so and the best three I have heard are the Metrum, PDX and Killer.  Of those the Metrum is the cheapest - but you must feed it with an Off-Ramp or similar.

Thanks
Bill

[hometheaterdoc]

I haven't done any critical listening to the AMR yet... it was still burning in... just some testing I did related to gain to determine if it really was it should be or if my unit had too low output.  While doing that I was quickly swapping between all the DAC/preamp units I have here to get measurements.  It stood out in a good way during that brief listening session.  It's been playing 24/7 since then in silence into the AMR AM-77 integrated amp with 100W dummy resistors on the AM-77s output speaker binding posts.  I'm hoping to do some listening this weekend if all goes well and the time vortex that is my pregnant wife doesn't have other plans for me

Now that the AMR is much closer to burned in and ready for listening, maybe the comparisons to other DACs can be had.  I need to have a get together soon before it's too late and I have no time.  I'd like to show some of this new stuff off to the locals and compare it with the awesome stuff that was already here before it arrived   part of my delay so far was burning stuff in, part was lack of time as I try to get nursery ready, sell off stuff, etc., and part of it was that I'm still waiting for a couple things to arrive (new digital board for the PS Audio PWD that will make it a MKII model)....

I will say that the WFS DAC 2 is ***NOT*** a valid example of what a ESS Sabre DAC chip usually sounds like.  Of the examples I've heard, it's the outlier, not the norm. 

[bhobba]

I will say that the WFS DAC 2 is ***NOT*** a valid example of what a ESS Sabre DAC chip usually sounds like.  Of the examples I've heard, it's the outlier, not the norm.

I hope so.  I have been very critical of the WFS fed via its USB - good bass and detail - but the treble is cold - like out of a freezer.  But when I fed it with my Off-Ramp a total transformation - that way I could easily live with it - just a slight trace of that coldness.  My hypotheses is its due to the implementation of the USB - they believed the hype the SABER was jitter immune - it isn't in my experience.  I seem to recall some guy over at absolute sound reckons when fed with the Off-Ramp some SABER DAC's he had, including the WFS, all sounded the same.

That said I know a few people who have heard a lot of SABER DAC's and none floats their boat.

Thanks
Bill

[satfrat]

I've actually done comparisons between the EE USB Dac alone and with the Off-Ramp 3 w/Ultraclock & Paul Hynes PS and frankly I was surprised on how close they were. While I definitely preferred the Off-Ramp, the EE USB wasn't all that far behind in my system.

Still the EE Dac wasn't what my system needed (too much of a good thing) but  did enjoy the demo opportunity. 

Cheers,
Robin

[mac5u]

I'm considering speakers and an amp.  But which first?

Uh-oh.   

[JLM]

Speakers first, always.

Amps only have to be sized to the load (based on speaker efficiency and amount of deep bass being handled).

Speakers must fit the room factors (space, WAF, set-up); your taste (musical genre, spl's, detail, imaging, tone, amount of deep bass, etc.); besides another option is active speakers (better dynamics/bass, flat frequency response, amps matched by manufacturer, overdrive protection).

[bhobba]

Speakers first, always.

Amps only have to be sized to the load (based on speaker efficiency and amount of deep bass being handled).

Speakers must fit the room factors (space, WAF, set-up); your taste (musical genre, spl's, detail, imaging, tone, amount of deep bass, etc.); besides another option is active speakers (better dynamics/bass, flat frequency response, amps matched by manufacturer, overdrive protection).

All I can say is I agree.  The only thing I would add, and I know this is not the majority view, a DAC makes a bigger difference than an amp - not as much as speakers of course, but I have demoed it to a lot people out my way and they were shocked - left scratching their head.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

I've actually done comparisons between the EE USB Dac alone and with the Off-Ramp 3 w/Ultraclock & Paul Hynes PS and frankly I was surprised on how close they were. While I definitely preferred the Off-Ramp, the EE USB wasn't all that far behind in my system.

Still the EE Dac wasn't what my system needed (too much of a good thing) but  did enjoy the demo opportunity. 

Cheers,
Robin

Hi Robin

Yes the Off-Ramp is an interesting device isn't it?  How can it make the difference it does - everyone I have shown it to leaves scratching their head on that.  It generally falls into two camps - your camp - better - and noticeably so - but not huge.  And the other camp - my camp - its in a different league.  It seems to be DAC dependant as well with it having the biggest effect on the Metrum followed by the WFS.

The Metrum created a big buzz after myself and a couple of other guys got one and posted about it - but I did warn people you must feed it with something like the Off-Ramp. I suspect some people didn't heed the advice because a heap appeared in the for sale sections after that.

I thought it may really lift some cheaper DAC's like the Audio GD NFB 3 everyone out my way was raving about.  A guy bought one over and we tried it against all my DAC's - sorry no cigar - slow, dull, lifeless, slightly milky and the Off-Ramp didn't seem to really change its character.

Thanks
Bill

[BobM]

It's funny reading these posts. They align very much with some private e-mails we've been exchanging with Andy (Drew) about replacing his ancient Theta DAC.

The issues seem to be trading off slam (the Theta puts out 7V as opposed to the normal 2V so there is a huge dynamic advantage there) vs keeping the musicality, vs too much tubiness and warmth (Cary)  vs too much transparency (Beringer).

I agree, the speakers and amp generally determine the character of a system, but if the amp is fairly neutral and the speakers revealing then the source determines the overall sound to a large degree, be it a DAC or a phono stage/cartridge. Oh, and if everything in there is of the revealing nature then the cables (all of them) are the tone controls.

Ain't it fun? Maybe we should just all get ton e controls or parametric equalizers and stop trying to be absolutists. 

[Inscrutable]

Been over a month, so thought I'd revive this and keep up with 2012 wishing and/vs reality.

+2 to Ken and Bob ... and anyone else that's joined them with nervosa in remission ... hope it lasts for you. Been there for a year or so just enjoying the theater and music (after 3 years of purgatory - no theater or music room - then over a year of sawdust and bengay building the upstairs).  Even though I only got it up to "OK" status ... it was an infinite improvement over that last few years.

Now planning to take the theater the rest of the way with new AT screenwall and built-ins all around.