Author Topic: epiphany? or neurosis  (Read 10533 times)

shep

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epiphany? or neurosis
« on: August 03, 2011, 12:10:06 AM »
 :shock:
This couldn't have happened at a worse moment. Just when I was sort of happy with my system I had to go and listen to another. Backtrack: I was contacted by a French guy who is a lurker on the DIY forum and it turns out he doesn't live too far away so I went (lugging the Marantz) to his house, not knowing what to expect. I was met by a beautiful listening room where enthroned was something out of a tweakers wet dream. Mono SET's à la Loftin-White 807? (usa?), the most tricked out cdp (another Marantz) I have ever seen or even imagined and two brawny wide band spkrs (home made) with some vintage super tweater. From the first note I was transported to another world. This was way way beyond my sound. The amps? the speakers? the strange and wonderfull tweaks (à la Peter Belt but a French version) Listened all day and agreed for a return match chez moi. One good thing came of this. My Marantz was the equal to his in every respect. In fact, in spite of having taken a totally different approach, there was almost no way we could tell them apart. His was just a wee bit more forward and explosive.  Mine had a smigen better bass definition and was a bit more relaxed. The bad news was that his home made rca's made my latest version of Grovers' sound veiled and closed in. Ouch. Oh yeah, I also brought along John Pretor's power cable, which was undistinguishable from his. So now I am on the prowl for new IC's and yes, I have been bitten by the wide bander bug. Just what I needed. Next time I'm bringing my ICE amp. I have a feeling it will not be ashamed.  
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 12:16:07 AM by shep »

Offline richidoo

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 06:21:03 AM »
Sounds like a lot of fun. Epiphany, definitely!  Good friends force us to grow.

shep

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 09:21:31 AM »
I have a love/hate thing with this hobby. Whatever...I'm going to be "reasonable" and find some better cables. I was thinking of Sablon "PANATELA" but they are out of my price range. He said he has a pair of personally used ones from a certain Michael Wolff. Supposed to totally wonderful (arn't they all!) Anybody know anything about these? Ok wrong place to ask this.  :duh. I really can't swing the price of new speakers and mine arn't so bad.

Offline Carlman

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 10:35:20 AM »
What about the silkworms or Koolcables?  Did those ever happen?  You could always DIY some of your own IC's... that really is a great way to go.. experiment with different cables and connectors you like.
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline topround

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 10:56:57 AM »
Ice amp versus SET tubes?

your kidding right :thumb:
System consists of an amp a preamp, 2 speakers a turntable and a phono preamp, Also some cables and power cords and a really cheap cd player.

shep

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 11:50:11 AM »
Nope. You haven't heard mine. In fact I intend to take it over and have a shootout. Mine is very special. Forget. What you have heard about this. The silkworms didn't do it for me.)

Offline JLM

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 05:13:45 PM »
The last time my oldest audio bud stopped by cost me some footers, EnABL treatments (from Bud Purvine himself), and new monoblocks.   :duh  But the EnABL and monoblocks were worth it.   :thumb:

Welcome to extended range drivers shep.  The good ones ain't cheap.  The high efficiency ones have colorations (that synergize with SETs).   True really wide range drivers are rare.

BTW shep my class D monoblocks are modded Hypex, not that crummy ICE stuff.   :mrgreen:

Offline richidoo

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 06:28:05 AM »
The high efficiency ones have colorations (that synergize with SETs).   True really wide range drivers are rare.

I found that to be true also JLM. Feastrex sounded best on SET.

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 09:03:49 AM »
Nope. You haven't heard mine. In fact I intend to take it over and have a shootout. Mine is very special. Forget. What you have heard about this. The silkworms didn't do it for me.)

I've heard numerous digital Class D switching amps but none that have "floated my boat". I have not heard your amp but I cannot comprehend it sounding better than a well made & designed Class A SET amplifier (with efficient speakers of course).

Epiphanies are cool... I get an audio one every 10 years or so... actually had two this past year (a record)... pretty amazing how it can change your viewpoint on a specific subject.

Cheers,
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shep

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 09:32:01 AM »
It's pointless to argue this as I can't prove what I say. None the less, this Frenchie with the Lovely amps and speakers is coming over to have a listen soon. Although we are talking different cables and speakers and room acoustics, I am quite happy to have him have the last word. Not only does he have better ears but has a wider range of experience with different tube and sand amps. It's foolish to genezralize about thse things. There are some rotten tube amps, badly designed sand amps and no doubt some ICE amps that will give you brain damage and internal bleeding. I rest my case.
By the way, this is the French driver he is suggesting to use for a wide bander. Expensive when you add up the box. http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/acoustique-services/acoustiques-services-am-21-lb-25-albc-p-3650.html
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 09:58:06 AM by shep »

Offline Triode Pete

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 10:25:33 AM »
It's pointless to argue this as I can't prove what I say. None the less, this Frenchie with the Lovely amps and speakers is coming over to have a listen soon. Although we are talking different cables and speakers and room acoustics, I am quite happy to have him have the last word. Not only does he have better ears but has a wider range of experience with different tube and sand amps. It's foolish to genezralize about thse things. There are some rotten tube amps, badly designed sand amps and no doubt some ICE amps that will give you brain damage and internal bleeding. I rest my case.
By the way, this is the French driver he is suggesting to use for a wide bander. Expensive when you add up the box. http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/acoustique-services/acoustiques-services-am-21-lb-25-albc-p-3650.html

Hey Shep - I'm not criticizing, condemning or complaining about ICE amps and am not to looking to argue about anything... just my personal observations regarding very high efficiency speakers & synergistic amplifier topology. YMMV. It'll be real interesting to hear "Frenchie's" opinion is on your ICE amp. If it's that good, I want to try it!  :thumb:

Always enjoy! Cheers!
Pete
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shep

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 12:00:53 PM »
I didn't think you were. I can read a smiley as good as the next man. This is a generic thing. In other places my claims are treated with polite distain like I was dillusional or too inexperienced to know better. I have no investment in being "right". My ears tell the tale. My neighbor, who is all tubed, is blown away by my amp and I calmly await the opinion of monsieur Triode. If it's an delusion, it's a hell of a convincing one.

Offline tmazz

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 04:03:45 PM »
I didn't think you were. I can read a smiley as good as the next man. This is a generic thing. In other places my claims are treated with polite distain like I was dillusional or too inexperienced to know better. I have no investment in being "right". My ears tell the tale. My neighbor, who is all tubed, is blown away by my amp and I calmly await the opinion of monsieur Triode. If it's an delusion, it's a hell of a convincing one.

I know where Pete is coming from. In general very high efficiency speakers are strange beasts that ruthlessly reveal the character of the electronics behind them because of their ability to turn even the lowest level flaw into an audible sound. Things that would get lost in the sauce on a lower efficiency speaker are put right out front and center on a more efficient one. (Remember the trouble stringdriventhing had with the noise from a rogue 90 driving his rebuilt horn speakers?)

But that said generalities can only guide us so far and you are absolutely right, the only thing that really matters in the end is what you hear with your own ears in your own system. You may make a synergistic match and find the only ice amp that sounds good with your speakers (and on the other hand, your friend my have the synergistic match and when he brings his amp to your house the two of you may very well look at each other and go "Yuck". (Been there, done that.  :roll: ) It may work out, it may not. But the fun is in the experimentation. You never know unless you try. This of course is why it is good to have a large circle of audio buddies.

And I couldn't agree with you more about being deluded. If a piece of gear puts a smile on my face and gets my foot tapping I call that a good thing. I don't care how or why it works, I'm just happy that it does. I know a lot of audiophiles that would disagree with that way of thinking, In my mind an audio system's job is to increase my enjoyment of music and if it does that in my opinion it has done its jog, and I don't really care how it did it.
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline JLM

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 04:47:07 PM »
shep,

I'm glad you know that we're just having some good humored fun with you.  I don't remember what kind of ICE amp you have.

Yep, not cheap.  But OTOH you're not paying for additional drivers or exotic crossover parts.  And you'll gain better amplifier performance since it "sees" and can react better to the simplier load.  No perfect speaker and no free lunch when it comes to speakers.

My French ain't so good, but that cabinet looks interesting.  Is that a port on the back plus an open slot on the front?  (The binding post cup they recommend is rectangular and the port is round.)  Regardless the cabinet looks DIYable.  BTW I replaced the simple speaker wire lugs on the back of my speakers and run the speaker cables directly from monoblocks to the drivers and seal the cabinet holes with rope caulk.

I'd almost prefer a tweeter to a whizzer for various reasons (that's why I wouldn't spend the $$$ for the incredible Feastex).

And the stated Fs (43 Hz) is down 20 dB by their graph.

shep

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Re: epiphany? or neurosis
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 12:49:30 AM »
My speakers are very inefficient so there's that, but on the other hand that means I have to turn the amp up high to get serious vol. presumably that would unmask ICE'y nasties? The amp sounds just as good on neighoring speakers. For the record, although I have posted this before, it's a one of a kind integrated (long story) with major changes. among them a very classy resistor L type pot, with a buffer made for me by Wyred4Sound, all Blackgate caps and latest Vishay Z-foil resistors (also installed by them). The module is the smallest ICE, which is supposed to be the swetest (2X75w).
Actually it was only the French driver I was talking about, not the cabinate. My friend has another version he says he can have made for me, which is a TL with a Helm. resonating chamber. I saw the dip in bass response too, which didn't make me happy, but maybe this is overcome in another config.? I don't know. Anyway this all comes to well over a grand, which is not do-able. Other than changing interconnects, I'm pretty much stuck with whay I have, which isn't chopped liver either. Nervosa... :duh