Author Topic: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???  (Read 14666 times)

Offline StereoNut

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2011, 09:03:37 PM »
The old Jazz at the Pawnshop syndrome. Great sound, mediocre music. How many of us have that lying around and haven;t listened to it in years. I bet if we all preened our music collection just down to the things we actually listen to and love the CD and vinyl racks would not be warping under the weight anymore, and our nervosa would shrink like a pee-pee in cold water.  :nono:

It's all about the music, lest we forget. So if the music isn't being served properly then you might be an "equipmanist". You might be an equipmanist if ...

- you only buy music that "sounds good"
- you bought something because it cost more than what you had, not because it sounded better
- you drool over the Stereophile equipment guide, and save those particular back issues
- etc.

Bob

I don't own "Jazz at the Pawnshop", but there are other recordings I own that would qualify as "great sound, but mediocre music".  At the same time, I refuse to believe there is one single Nervosian out there who hasn't done that with a few of their music purchases somewhere along the line.  And yes, I am also willing to admit that my music collection has recordings in it that don't get played much anymore. Whether they "hooked me" on one song and then afterwards I found out that the rest of the LP (or CD) has nothing else much worthwhile on it or maybe it's that my tastes in music may have changed since my first record purchase when I was 10 years old, it really doesn't matter.  We all are guilty to a certain degree.  So, up to this point in the "conversation" I am in agreement with you for the most part.

But, here's where I see (hear) things differently in relation to a lot of what's been written on this thread.  (BTW, I want to thank everyone who has posted here for providing their viewpoints and opinions on this topic.  It's what makes this "cyber-community" on AN such a worthwhile place to be.)

Some of the recordings that I have been recently listening to and enjoying so much of late are NOT special audiophile editions or what would be considered "ear-candy" by any means.

  • Crosby, Stills & Nash - Disk #1 from their box set
  • Keb Mo - "Slow Down"
  • Norah Jones - "Come Away with Me"
  • Mark Knopfler - "The Ragpickers Dream"
  • Blood, Sweat & Tears - "Blood, Sweat & Tears"
  • James Taylor - "Greatest Hits - Vol.#1 & 2"

It's all music that I love, first and foremost for the music's sake.  If you'll take notice; it's mostly a mix of "Pop", "Blues" and "Rock".  Norah Jones is the closest thing to jazz on the list, although Hank Williams tunes aren't what I consider jazz per se!  It just so happens that these disks are recorded rather well and it makes the listening to any of these recordings even better; because I love the sound and the musical content. 

Now, with all of that being said; none of you can accuse me of "cherry picking" music just to get the most resolution out of my system and justify why I started this thread to begin with.  Please take note of what's NOT on my playlist here, that would be "standard fare" at many audio club meetings:  no Jacinta, no Ava Cassidy, no Patricia Barber, no Miles/Gertu, no Dianna Krall or "Jazz at the Pawnshop" just to name a few.  And, please hold up on the slings and arrows - I am not saying that there's anything wrong with listening to any of these artists on this last list.  I own recordings from all of them (except the last one, like I said earlier) and I do enjoy them.  It's just that I needed to use them here to help me illustrate my point better.

So, again I ask all of you... if my stereo system remains constant and all I am playing are "run of the mill, plain old redbook CD's" and some sound really good/great and others of the same ilk do not - doesn't it come down to the only variable; which are the recordings themselves? 

Yes, at the end of the day, it always comes down to the music (we miss you, Earl) but I still don't understand why any of us should have to compromise the capabilities of our systems because the same resolution that makes things sound so great, also reveals so many flaws in poorly recorded material, that it in turn makes those recordings barely listenable to!

I'm sorry, but I'm (obviously) having a hard time getting past the "less is more" axiom.

Bill
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Offline JLM

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2011, 04:53:03 AM »
We are slaves to the recording.  The over mixing, digital manipulations, and excessively close miking can all combine to produce an artificially processed sound.  So it probably doesn't make sense to obsess on our systems (can I say that here?) past elimination of "sins of comission" (power aberrations, small/square rooms with an abundance of hard walls, etc.). 

Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2011, 05:51:35 AM »
I owned a Tact preamp/dac for a few years.  It was amazing how I could manipulate and control the sound and it sounded pretty damn awesome.  But ultimately it fed the nervosa monster.  Everytime something didn't sound quite right on a given day/recording/etc..., I'd start tweaking the settings, change to a different response curve, etc...  I guess what I'm saying is that just because you can tweak everything doesn't mean you should.  And, in fact, the more you do so, the less time you spend just listening to the music. 

And ultimately, there are great recordings and there are bad recordings.  Personally, I want the great recordings of my most loved music to sound great and if it means that some recordings just collect dust... well, I guess I'm OK with that.

Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2011, 06:18:44 AM »
...

In your case the 20A inlet makes borrowing cords to try out kinda difficult at least on the amp.

Rich, I have had the opportunity to try a few.  At present I have an Alan Maher Quantum Ref, and a VH Audio Flavor 4, as well as the stock McCormack supplied PC (which is actually damn nice for a stock cord).   I will soon have a Triode Pete 8awg with a Hubbell 20a IEC as well.  It should be interesting.   To be honest, I don't find dramatic differences between these PCs on the McCormack.  The Alan Maher cord seems a bit more relaxed w/quieter backgrounds yet still allows for exceptional dynamics and transient response - all the best from the McCormack.

Offline BobM

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2011, 07:16:04 AM »
Mike - Pete is burning a cord in for me also to try out against the one I am using now. I guess we'll see if we can hear a difference soon enough.

As for "too much detail", as some of you know I am rebuilding a pair of Apogee Calipers. As a matter of course I put a .1uF teflon bypass on the tweeter caps. This teflon was burned in for several hundred hours and was used on another project I had, but I let it run in for another 50 or so anyway.

At first I said "wow". I could tell the bass players left sneaker was untied (and yes, he was wearing sneakers - they have a different reverberant field than leather shoes or boots). But after a while I felt it was just too much. The "musicality" was gone and it was just a bit too forward sounding and fatigue set in. When I pulled it off it was an immediate "ahhhh" that's better. Are teflons on ribbon tweeters too much of a good thing? Dunno, this was my first try of them on a ribbon. They certainly did unbalance the sound to my ears. But the bottom line was the music was better served without that extra detail.

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Offline rollo

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2011, 11:17:21 AM »
Mike - Pete is burning a cord in for me also to try out against the one I am using now. I guess we'll see if we can hear a difference soon enough.

As for "too much detail", as some of you know I am rebuilding a pair of Apogee Calipers. As a matter of course I put a .1uF teflon bypass on the tweeter caps. This teflon was burned in for several hundred hours and was used on another project I had, but I let it run in for another 50 or so anyway.

At first I said "wow". I could tell the bass players left sneaker was untied (and yes, he was wearing sneakers - they have a different reverberant field than leather shoes or boots). But after a while I felt it was just too much. The "musicality" was gone and it was just a bit too forward sounding and fatigue set in. When I pulled it off it was an immediate "ahhhh" that's better. Are teflons on ribbon tweeters too much of a good thing? Dunno, this was my first try of them on a ribbon. They certainly did unbalance the sound to my ears. But the bottom line was the music was better served without that extra detail.




Bob that is exactly what I have talking about and trying to communicate.  Just too much. The soul disappears. The emotional impact decreases.
  I call it the neutrality wars. Neutrality has replaced musicality. The new gear has st rived for neutrality to the source. Great concept if all recordings were well executed.
  The main reason I switched over to SET amps. The harmonic distortion created is suitable to the signal. No matter what one likes neutral or colored say bring back tone controls.


charles
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Offline Carlman

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2011, 07:37:24 AM »
Yes, and yes, Charles.  Great thoughts.

I was on my journey to the ultimate hifi a few years ago... During that time I found an emotional attachment to music listening to a pair of Mac 501's and Piega C3 Limiteds than I had have ever had before... This was at Brandon/Hantra's house listening to music I didn't even know.  That's when I realized I could have hifi that resolved the details in a way that was like real life.. The details were there if I wanted to listen for them.

I started linking/relating what I listened to when hearing music live vs. a hifi.  When I was into it, I didn't have much focus on the details, just a connection to joy.  When I wasn't into it, I started dissecting the sound of the instruments, amps, and then after a while, started looking around at equipment, people in the crowd, and whatnot.  So, my attention to detail shifted/changed throughout a performance.  I also learned a few things about myself.  I don't need really loud music to enjoy it.  It's fun but not required.  When I say 'really loud', I mean bringing earplugs to a concert and it's still too loud.  I really don't get the 120-150db performance.  I'd rather take a hammer to the toe...
Along the same lines of irritation/frustration that good music is recorded poorly, I have the same reaction to good music cranked so loud I can't enjoy it. but anyway..

My goal became building a system that could produce its own performance, what I called a '2nd generation original'... a musical reproduction that was unique and new in my room, and had its own soul.

I have ridden a similar cycle to what Rich describes on page 1..  During my journey, I focused on the limitless learning possibilities.  It was overwhelming at times but I chose what was important to building the system I wanted.  I love to learn and this hobby certainly provides a lot of that.  I created many iterations of what I hoped got me the presentation I wanted.  I changed and so did the gear.. and my goals were refined with each iteration.  

There really is something for everyone in this hobby.  Whether it is getting closer to a connection with music or understanding how to make the music sound better overall.  This hobby provides technical challenges and business opportunities.  Sometimes those are born out of a need to get a reward for the work that's been put into the hobby.  If you do this hobby long enough and you're unsatisfied, it's depressing.  So, getting some money for what you've done is a natural path.. but this business isn't exactly great for small businesses.

Fortunately, this hobby has provided me a means to learn more about myself, and that I have a technical side that loves equipment and analysis.  However, I've changed over the years and so has my interaction with audio.  I have built something that connects me with the soul or intent of the music... and even allows me to put my own intent into the music.  I can get lost in the sound and have a very emotional experience now, with very little to no thought about changing anything other than the volume... or what I want to hear next... or getting a box of tissues for the room. ;)

-C
I really enjoy listening to music.

Offline BobM

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2011, 08:23:51 AM »
I hear you Carl. I personally take on a project or two each winter. Some kind of a DIY thing or experiment. As a result I am invariably sitting and listening "criticallY" to discern minor changes (improvements, dis-improvements or just changes in general). This mode of listening is not relaxing or enjoyable, but it is essential to understanding what the tweak or change has rendered in the system. It gets fatiguiging, and is not really listening to "music".

It is nice to be able to sit back and enjoy a piece in its entirety, occasionally looking of from a book or whatever and saying, "boy that sounds good", but more importantly just enjoying the whole experience.
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Offline StereoNut

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2011, 10:38:27 AM »
Do you think these may help!?!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 11:48:10 AM by StereoNut »
"Friends, Romans & Countrymen; lend me your ears"

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Offline tmazz

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2011, 10:40:39 AM »
Do you think these may help!?!  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Not big enough - we would all need the industrial strength dose.  :duh
Remember, it's all about the music........

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Offline mdconnelly

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2011, 11:01:06 AM »
Hmmm, maybe more like this...

« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 11:04:40 AM by mdconnelly »

Offline tmazz

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2011, 12:46:20 PM »
Would I need 6 pills if I was obsessing over a 5.1 HT system?  :lol:
Remember, it's all about the music........

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• McIntosh MC 275
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• VPI HW-19 Mk IV/SDS/SME IV/Soundsmith Carmen Mk II ES
• Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC/Rasp Pi Roon Endpoint
• DigiBuss/TWL PC&USB/MIT Cables

Offline _Scotty_

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Re: Good vs. Bad Recordings...???
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2011, 09:32:39 PM »
Remember what the dormouse said;
"Keep YOUR HEAD"

Scotty